When Should the Antagonist Appear

RookieWriter · Jun 27, 2019

I'm writing a new action story, a screenplay, and am trying to figure out how and when to introduce the antagonist. I've always thought that it should be in act one, or at least hinted toward in act one, but does it ever make sense to wait until act two to have the enemy show up? I mean, if the characters goal is clear do we need to know who is trying to get in the way of that goal early on?

Feedback is appreciated.

Enlightened · Jun 27, 2019

Darth Vader was an ominous-looking and sounding character. He was shown early on (episode IV). Depends on the movie and what effect the presence of the character brings to the movie. Maybe your antagonist's henchmen bring more effect till he is seen later, if you choose to wait.

If you haven't studied plotting and structure, read below....

If you are a pantser, the following may not be helpful. If you are into plotting, read on. It has a lot of great information on screenplay writing if

Adam Skelter's two Outline videos here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnGfFb0Ouo0i92MFx7mqZLg/search?query=Outline

He owns the YouTube channel in the link. More of his stuff can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLez8jOvskc-OKLpbfgmwhgf8ApX4o4M7I

He breaks the 3 act structure down into 4 acts. He explains the dramatic question and where to answer it. He explains the inciting incident (what he calls the impetus) and screenplay sequencing, landmarks, plot points, scenes, and so on.

pharm · Jun 27, 2019

The Third Man has one of the greatest third act villain reveals of all time, and even then he’s barely on screen (though of course his off-screen presence has been felt in huge ways from the start).

There’s no one-size-fits-all answer here. It all depends on the kind of story you want to tell, and the villain’s role in it.

Azdaphel · Jun 29, 2019

I'm writing a story where I have multiple antagonists. One revealed as soon as chapter 2 since his actions are the trigger for the whole plot. The others will be revealed as the plot thickens. The main antagonist won't be showing himself until at least the second half of the story. He is waiting for the situation to become chaotic enough to move in.

The question I asked myself for the antagonist or any other characters was: Why I need to show him now?

To take the example of Enlightened. Darth Vader is shown early because he is taking matters in hand personally (hunting princess Leila). But if the antagonist is working through other people and prefer to stay behind the scene as long as possible, then he may not show up until late in the story. Sometimes right in the end (I have seen this in many RPGs). However, hints on the true enemy are generally given along the story (for the best written ones).

Rufio · Jun 29, 2019

I'm not an expert on this.

But I think it's less about when the antagonist appears – and more about how soon you bring the effects of that antagonist into the story.

Even if Darth Vader hadn't appeared until the climax of the film, I'm sure the earlier parts of the story would have had plenty of mentions or references to "some evil Sith commander and all the awful things he's done or is doing".

Revealing the antagonist too early could remove the suspense and mystery. And revealing him too late could mean that your readers don't get a full enough picture of his character.

But probably the worst thing you could do is have your characters fight through a whole novel's worth of conflict and challenges that are completely unrelated to the 'real' antagonist – and then wheel out a brand new antagonist for the climax.

Woollybear · Jun 29, 2019

The antagonist is the antagonizing force that the protagonist is working against in any scene, but the antagonist is not necessarily the enemy. The protagonist can be antagonized by different things, even him/herself, and it can be a different antagonist in each scene. In some cop stories, the two good cops antagonize each other, for example, and this is the source of conflict in some scenes.

Screenplays usually = three-act structure or something like this.

I think you should aim for conflict/tension in each scene, especially for a screenplay, but you don't need to bring the enemy (villain) in straight away. You need an unfolding story and antagonism.

The turning point at the end of act I can often involve the villain but does not need to; in my understanding the villain is rarely encountered for the first time after the halfway point.

Auteur · Jun 29, 2019

In my novel (soon to be made into a major motion picture), the antagonist appears in the first chapter, but only antagonizes a minor character at that point. It's not until about 2/3 through that he acts on a major character.

I didn't plan it that way. That's just how it worked out.

onceuponatime · Jun 30, 2019

I think (in line with what the others have said) that it comes down to a sense of presence - whether pantsing or plotting you can have the antagonist first appear in person basically anywhere in the novel, but the important thing is that their presence is felt throughout it. That presence should inform the feel of the narrative, and tie in with (or be) the driving force behind your character's hopes and fears. If they aren't there in person, then their impending presence should cast a threatening shadow over the MC's journey, building tension up until the moment they meet. If they are around consistently as the villain through the story, then their presence should serve as a reminder of the threat they represent.

There are of course other ways that stories introduce the villain, but the villain still has an ongoing role in the story even when they're 'off-camera'. For example, if the villain comes and go (like the Wizard of Oz, or many of the examples above), then those narrative arcs can allow each return to shatter any illusion of normalcy or comfort for the MC, and the fear of return drives tension between appearances. On the other hand, if they are present for the entire story but closeted as the villain (as is quite common), then that betrayal should be part of the MC's journey and impact the transition between who your MC is when the story begins, and who they are when it ends.

Cosmering · Jun 30, 2019

I think, like everyone else, it depends on the story. In Harry Potter, Voldemort doesn't physically show up until the end of book one (aside from a glimpse in the forest), but his presence is hammered home as terrifying from the very start. Which is personally the effect I'm trying to have with mine!

But it definitely depends on story, because I think antagonists can be introduced in chapter one and still be effective.

SwallowFeather · Jul 1, 2019

I think I'm agreeing with others here: you don't necessarily need the physical or face-to-face presence of the antagonist in Act I, but you do need the sense of presence onceuponatime is talking about, and the antagonist's effect on the situation that Rufio is talking about.

My main antagonist in my latest (published, though not wildly successful) novel doesn't show up till the middle of Act II and doesn't actually do anything till the beginning of Act III. What makes this possible for me is multiple, connected antagonists. To wit: I wrote a Holocaust novel/WWII suspense novel set in France, so really my antagonist is the Nazis--and the Vichy French authorities. Breaking it down, in a sense I had a different antagonist for each act: Act I, a Vichy administrator who can bring a credible threat of arrest and deportation to bear but ends up backing down. Act II: a French informer whose presence brings substantial risk of arrest to the characters, but whom they can't act against. (Till they do; he gets shot point-blank at the close of Act II.) Act III: the regional Gestapo head, who is of course the final villain and an actual Nazi. It's the same principle as the final boss in a way--you come up against minions first, then end up facing the guy with more power. What's important is that they share the same goals with regard to our main character(s) and so bring the same (or similar but escalating) threats to bear.

But that's my story. Maybe sum up a little about yours for us, and then we could give you more specific feedback.

DMakinson · Jul 1, 2019

I don't think there's any fixed rule for this - or even a guideline. In some successful books the antagonist is right there from page 1. In others the antagonist doesn't appear at all...Sauron, anyone? In others, the antagonists change throughout the story line...Game of Thrones being a great example.

If you don't want to simply introduce an antagonist from the get-go (or from any other point in the story) then perhaps the trick lies in the foreshadowing. An event that tells us Someone or Something bad (or maybe I should say inimical to the interests and goals of your protagonist) is pulling the strings behind the scenes.

An apparently random explosion in a crowded store? The outbreak of a deadly sickness on a remote space station? A series of silent telephone calls? A dead dragon?

The reader will know immediately that Someone or Something is behind these events. The antagonist is a mysterious threat hanging over the storyline. Keep the reader intrigued. If you do the job right they'll want to read on...

Best wishes to all reading this,
Cheers,
David

RookieWriter · Jul 2, 2019

Thanks for the feedback. Please keep it coming.

So far I have teased the antagonist in act 1 by mentioning his name and the protagonist is now aware at least of his existence. That happened on page 18. I'm now in the fourth scene of act 2 and the protagonist has not shown up yet, probably won't until the midpoint or so.

Bufty · Jul 2, 2019

To me at least, the mere mentioning of a name has by itself no particular 'teasing' relevance unless it has an obvious connection to something that has already impacted upon the protagonist, yet you say below the protagonist hasn't shown up yet.

Apart from the above, have you got your protagonist and antagonist mixed up?

RookieWriter said:
Thanks for the feedback. Please keep it coming.

So far I have teased the antagonist in act 1 by mentioning his name and the protagonist is now aware at least of his existence. That happened on page 18. I'm now in the fourth scene of act 2 and the protagonist has not shown up yet, probably won't until the midpoint or so.

SwallowFeather · Jul 2, 2019

RookieWriter said:
Thanks for the feedback. Please keep it coming.

So far I have teased the antagonist in act 1 by mentioning his name and the protagonist is now aware at least of his existence. That happened on page 18. I'm now in the fourth scene of act 2 and the protagonist has not shown up yet, probably won't until the midpoint or so.

What's your sense of menace associated with the antagonist? Is the menace vague, clear, not known yet? What are the forces the protag is up against, and are they associated or not associated with the antagonist's name?

Also, what kind of story are you writing? Because those questions don't necessarily have right or wrong answers to them--the appropriate answer will depend on the kind of story you're writing. Action? Romance? School story/coming of age? Sports genre? Are we talking violent antagonist or rival? Are we talking life/death stakes, success/failure stakes, what is the protag's goal? Without this info I have no idea, really, whether what you're doing is a good idea or not. It might be. But it's very much not one-size-fits-all.

Woollybear · Jul 2, 2019

I wonder if the antagonist's (the villain's, more specifically) goal should be evident by now, even if any direct conflict between him and the protagonist is still unsaid. I wonder if we should recognize that the antagonist's (villain's) goal is 'bad thing.'

A movie that confused me when I was a child was "Grease." First time I saw it, and Danny was smoking and wearing a leather jacket and Sandra Dee was so sweet, I knew exactly who the good guy and the bad guy were. And then when Sandy goes all leather and cigarettes, boy was I confused. And were we supposed to like Rizzo? Or see her as a foul temptress? I couldn't sort it out, at all.

I don't think there's a villain in Grease, but there are lots of antagonizing forces at play.

RookieWriter · Jul 2, 2019

Bufty said:
To me at least, the mere mentioning of a name has by itself no particular 'teasing' relevance unless it has an obvious connection to something that has already impacted upon the protagonist, yet you say below the protagonist hasn't shown up yet.

Apart from the above, have you got your protagonist and antagonist mixed up?

Yes, my mistake.

The reason I mentioned the antagonist by name was I was trying to foreshadow. Might not have been necessary though. Thanks for the information.

RookieWriter · Jul 2, 2019

SwallowFeather said:
What's your sense of menace associated with the antagonist? Is the menace vague, clear, not known yet? What are the forces the protag is up against, and are they associated or not associated with the antagonist's name?

Also, what kind of story are you writing? Because those questions don't necessarily have right or wrong answers to them--the appropriate answer will depend on the kind of story you're writing. Action? Romance? School story/coming of age? Sports genre? Are we talking violent antagonist or rival? Are we talking life/death stakes, success/failure stakes, what is the protag's goal? Without this info I have no idea, really, whether what you're doing is a good idea or not. It might be. But it's very much not one-size-fits-all.

It's an action story, specifically a martial arts script. The plan is that in act 2 the antagonist injuries the protagonist and prevents him from being a professional fighter. It's an ego thing, the antagonist has been the toughest guy around and then this new guy shows up who is a threat to his thrown.

I'm only about 30 pages in so it's still really early. It's kinda a hot mess right now and lacks any depth.

RookieWriter · Jul 2, 2019

Patty said:
I wonder if the antagonist's (the villain's, more specifically) goal should be evident by now, even if any direct conflict between him and the protagonist is still unsaid. I wonder if we should recognize that the antagonist's (villain's) goal is 'bad thing.'

A movie that confused me when I was a child was "Grease." First time I saw it, and Danny was smoking and wearing a leather jacket and Sandra Dee was so sweet, I knew exactly who the good guy and the bad guy were. And then when Sandy goes all leather and cigarettes, boy was I confused. And were we supposed to like Rizzo? Or see her as a foul temptress? I couldn't sort it out, at all.

I don't think there's a villain in Grease, but there are lots of antagonizing forces at play.

This just gave me an idea for a twist. Thanks!

Azdaphel · Jul 4, 2019

But probably the worst thing you could do is have your characters fight through a whole novel's worth of conflict and challenges that are completely unrelated to the 'real' antagonist – and then wheel out a brand new antagonist for the climax.

This is exactly what happens in FFIV. I stopped playing this game because of this.

maggiee19 · Jul 8, 2019

My antagonists usually appear in chapter 1 or 2.

NINA28 · Jul 9, 2019

I've heard many say "as soon as possible have your hero meet your villain and start building the struggle and hatred between them".

But then I watched this movie where the Hero just dealt with the main villain's henchmen. The villain sent people to harm the hero and the ones her cared about, but remained elusive and unknown until a show down at the end. The hero struggled to just locate this guy.

I tend to like it when the main Villain is someone close to the Hero, someone they have a bound with all ready. Maybe something happens and they go their separate ways. You just have to look at your story and ask yourself what would make the biggest impact?

cbenoi1 · Jul 9, 2019

You can interspersed scenes from the Hero's POV and the Antagonist's POV and build up the tension as you show how ugly it's gonna be when those two life snippets collide. At a minimum you need to show how badass the Antagonist is and how difficult defeating him is going to be. At the same time, you need to show why this fight is unavoidable and as good as his redeeming qualities are, how badly prepared the Hero really is.

-cb

Harlequin · Jul 20, 2019

I think this is fairly complicated as questions go, and quite interesting.

My current wip doesn't introduce a clear or consistent antagonist, and i qould argue that role changes.

For starters, it has two timelines. Past timeline has a succession of antagonists from within the MC's own family, most of whom begin as allies or friends initially.

In the present day timeline, MC's antagonist is arguably her son, whose sickness renders him a monster (literally). But this is dealt with, too.

As the timelines converge, it becomes clear that the MC is, in fact, something of a villain and has been all along. When that happens, the people she used to work with, and who she then betrays, become her new set of antagonists.

When Should the Antagonist Appear

RookieWriter

Enlightened

Always Learning

pharm

profoundly de minimis

Azdaphel

Rufio

Woollybear

Auteur

Redacted

onceuponatime

Learning and growing

Cosmering

SwallowFeather

Oops I just swallowed a feather

DMakinson

RookieWriter

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

SwallowFeather

Oops I just swallowed a feather

Woollybear

RookieWriter

RookieWriter

RookieWriter

Azdaphel

maggiee19

NINA28

cbenoi1

Harlequin

Eat books, not brains!