Caving

What's your question? I've been once in New Zealand. A lot of climbing and crawling, a lot of mud, fantastic.

And I've walked in many a lava tube.

ShouldBeWriting said:

A key scene in my book takes place in a cave and I want to make sure it sounds authentic. And also looking for ways to maybe increase tension, but I personally have no idea what it’s like inside a cave. See... Just knowing it’s muddy helps because that is something I didn’t even consider. Maybe just details about what it’s like inside a cave? How does it smell? How is the lighting? What do your joints and legs feel like when you’re climbing (or crawling... another detail I hadn’t considered)? Any little detail that might make the scene seem more authentic would be greatly appreciated!

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From my limited experience:

Lava tubes and some caves can be dry, but muddy is common. Caves typically have water dripping from the ceiling. It's common for streams to run through caves including some pretty cool pools with very clear water.

Typically smells like you'd expect where water is dripping.

I'm not sure at what depth caves begin to get warm but at usual depths one finds the temperatures are steady and usually that is a pleasant temperature.

The average air temperature of a cave depends entirely on its location. Generally, the temperature of a cave is approximately the average annual surface temperature of the region In which it is located.

The Carlsbad Caverns in northern Texas, for example, have an average air temperature inside the caves of 70 degrees, while the mean surface temperature of the area is 63 degrees. Crystal Cave, located in western Wisconsin, has an average cave air temperature of 49 to 50 degrees, also close to the average annual surface temperature of its region. Cave temperatures generally change very slowly, except where large entrances allow outside air to change significantly the interior air temperature.

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You can look a lot of those stats up.

If you go too deep the heat becomes intolerable, literally.

Once you are deep inside, if you turn the lights off there is zero light. Some people don't understand that and think your eyes would adjust in a cave. Nope, not unless light is leaking in through cracks to the surface.

Climbing is no different in a cave. We used some regular climbing equipment.

Squeezing through some openings though, can be creepy if you are the least bit claustrophobic. You often cannot turn around until you reach the next opening. My partner went through one of those spaces I refused.

You should look up the formation of stalactites and stalagmites. They form in specific conditions. In the lava tubes there are all kinds of boulders and rocks that one has to climb over. I've never seen stalactites and stalagmites in lava tubes but it might be in some tubes.

I spent 7 hours caving in NZ (yay, MaeZe! so fun, right?) in March.

ShouldBeWriting said:

A key scene in my book takes place in a cave and I want to make sure it sounds authentic. And also looking for ways to maybe increase tension

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I guess this depends what the situation is? Like ... are your characters prepared to be in a cave? Do they have the proper gear (frex safety ropes and light sources)? How many people are there?

ShouldBeWriting said:

How does it smell?

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For the caving system we were in, it smelled like damp rock. A bit musty in places, but with a note of moisture. The smell varied depending on which part of the caves we were in. When pressing through narrow spaces (either by foot or rappelling), the damp rock smell was strongest, coz you're pressed right up to it. In larger caverns, it was more of a stale air vibe. Also, yanno, depending on how many people and how long they'd been down there for and how claustrophobic people became ... just the barest hint of sweat.

ShouldBeWriting said:

How is the lighting?

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Nonexistent without an artificial light source. MaeZe is right about eyes not adjusting. Speaking with my professional-eye-prodder hat on, eyes can't adjust to perfect black. (I have no idea how those Thai soccer boys didn't lose their minds.) Helmet-mounted lamps are generally used, to keep your hands free. FWIW, if you don't have or lose your light source, your brain will eventually start 'showing' you images, even though you can't actually see anything.

ShouldBeWriting said:

What do your joints and legs feel like when you’re climbing (or crawling... another detail I hadn’t considered)?

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I was pretty sore by the end, both from general exertion for that length of time, and also coz I managed to bang my knees a few times rappelling through narrow openings and slipping on damp rocks in some sections. Also managed to graze my palms pretty well and de-knuckle one finger when I lost balance and had to brace against rough ancient stone in a tough section to stop from falling down a crevasse. Fun times!

ShouldBeWriting said:

Any little detail that might make the scene seem more authentic would be greatly appreciated!

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Happy to provide more details, but specifics about your setup would help. Feel free to PM if you want!

MaeZe said:

You should look up the formation of stalactites and stalagmites. They form in specific conditions. In the lava tubes there are all kinds of boulders and rocks that one has to climb over. I've never seen stalactites and stalagmites in lava tubes but it might be in some tubes.

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AFAIK, (geology class way back when) stalactites and stalagmites are formed from water percolating through limestone, then dripping the mineral out through cracks, etc.
Like the way icicles form on eaves, if the temperature and the moisture are right.

So, unlikely to form in lave tubes which have different minerals, and a volcanic origin.
And, bonus info: stalactites come from the ceiling down, and stalag​mites come from the ground up.

be frank said:

I spent 7 hours caving in NZ (yay, MaeZe! so fun, right?) in March. ...

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It was an incredible experience. Next to the Waitomo Glow Worm Caves are some incredible caves that caver hobbyists explore. It was total serendipity. We were at the youth hostel there and a number of cave enthusiasts were using their climbing equipment hanging from the ceiling (made to put ropes there). After friendly chatter and getting to hoist ourselves up by the ropes they invited us along with them the next morning. They even had coveralls they loaned us because of the mud.

Definitely an experience I'll never forget.

Might that be the caves you went in? Though we didn't go seven-hours deep and NZ has a lot of caves apparently.

MaeZe said:

Might that be the caves you went in?

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Ours were a limited-access cave system about 40 minutes drive up the mountains from Waitomo. Mr BF and I went through with three others and five professional guides (from a company with the permits to access it). It was quite full on, but so so worthwhile!

We did the glowworms the next morning (coz you kind of have to when you're there) and those caves felt so pitifully commercialized after the previous day's adventures! (though the worms themselves were very cool.)

eta: Your hostel/holiday experience sounds amazing, btw! So nice to fall into opportunities like that.

eta2: OP, you might find videos like this helpful to watch. There are a bunch of them on YouTube, and they give a bit of an idea of what caving's like. (Note: caves can be dry or wet. The one we did had droplets from above and some ground water, but we didn't need wet suits, only overalls and gumboots.)

My children go climbing, and potholing--which is probably what you mean by "caving", OP.

The two things they've told me about potholing here (Yorkshire, in the UK) is that it's very cold, and very wet. It smells of wet stuff, and sulphur. Once you're past the entrance there is no light at all, so torches are most definitely required.

Some areas of the caving they've done are so small they've had to lie down to get through--and they couldn't lie flat, because the space was so narrow, they've had to lie on their sides, and in one particular cave they had to lie on their sides and their lower ear was underwater. So it's not for the timid; and you do need appropriate clothing.

There's a brief video here of one of the cave systems near me, which shows some of the more difficult sections you can work through.

ShouldBeWriting said:

A key scene in my book takes place in a cave and I want to make sure it sounds authentic. And also looking for ways to maybe increase tension, but I personally have no idea what it’s like inside a cave. See... Just knowing it’s muddy helps because that is something I didn’t even consider. They are not generally muddy unless there is water running inside like a river, lake, or it leaks through the rocks somehow. Maybe just details about what it’s like inside a cave? There is a cave in Spain that is deep, dry and hot inside. Usually caves are cooler, but this one wasn't. They tend to be dark and the further you go inside, you will be in total darkness. There are caves in the Netherlands that were used during WWII that hide people. It is bone dry with many alley ways running through it and levels to house people. Without artificial lighting, you wouldn't be able to navigate it. Mammoth Cave has a great many stalactite and stalagmites. It has many levels, cooler, and with dripping water. How does it smell? If there are bats, it smells nasty. If it is damp, it smells like a damp basement. A dry one doesn't really smell much, just cool or warm depending o the depth of it. How is the lighting? There is none unless you bring your own or there is a hole in the ceiling. What do your joints and legs feel like when you’re climbing (or crawling... another detail I hadn’t considered)? Any little detail that might make the scene seem more authentic would be greatly appreciated!

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Look up the word speleothems or spelunking for more information. You can probably use your imagination with one, they can be all different.

This is a great thread with lots of helpful info (I've sent the link to myself so I can refer back to it in the future).

I went caving about fifteen or so years ago in Northern Ireland. My main memory of the time (apart from the caving instructor being HOT *ahem*) was the overwhelming relief at getting out and finally being able to stand up straight again. There was lots of squeezing through/crawling in confined spaces, and the worst part was inching through a narrow section on my stomach, trying not to knock my helmet against the low ceiling.

In case your characters have visited caves in the US before they go spelunking, you should know that US caves are so commercialized, it's awful. There's one in eastern Tennessee that has colored lights and they play recorded music to enhance the sense of drama. Most caves here are like that, just tourist traps. They're ADA compliant, so there's smooth concrete paths and ramps, and handrails everywhere, and an elevator down. Not that I begrudge the disabled the ability to visit caves, but it does make it a lot less natural-feeling.

Imagine my delight when we went to a cave in Ireland that was almost as natural as you can get, without actually risking your life. No elevator, we had to descend 7 or 8 flights of stairs. Metal, industrial stairs that were dripping with cave water. (That was an adventure in and of itself, given my health issues. On the way back up, I had to stop at every landing to rest because my legs were shaking. And I had trouble walking for several days afterward. Totally worth it.) At the bottom of the stairs, we had to put on hard hats. There were planks in some areas to make walking easier, and some of the steps had narrow handrails, but other than that, the path was mostly natural stone and mud. Lots of mud. (In fact, a local artist collects clay from one section of the cave.) There wasn't much lighting, either.

Side note: People who discover caves are insane. Every cave I visit, they tell the story of how it was discovered, and it's usually something along the lines of, "Mr. Explorer found a hole in the ground and decided to see where it went. He crawled for three days through a tunnel so small, he had to lay on his back and couldn't even lift his head. Eventually, he fell into the cave."

Side note #2: Some people can't handle caves. They get claustrophobic and panicky at the thought of being that far underground. I'm usually claustrophobic, but for some reason, I don't feel uncomfortable in caves. In fact, I love them. I feel safe. Kinda weird!