What are the basics of negotiating with publishers?

efreysson · Jun 18, 2019

I've been trying to get traditionally published for a year now, contacting agents and the odd publisher who accepts unsolicited queries. But it has dawned on me that if my manuscript were to catch someone's interest I have NO idea of how to handle the next part. None at all.

What are the basics to look out for when negotiating with publishers? What are the red flags, or the must-haves on my end of things?

(Note, I am contacting agents in multiple English-speaking countries, and making the odd attempt to get published in non-English speaking ones)

screenscope · Jun 18, 2019

Don't worry, it's perfectly normal and it all works out!

The key is not to panic (hard to do!) or feel rushed when a contract arrives. Whoever sent it to you expects you to get it checked out and negotiate, so if they pressure you to sign and return it straight away, that's a big red flag.

I couldn't get an agent, but I did receive a contract offer from a small UK publisher (which I accepted). It was too small to interest an agent, which would have been my first choice if it was a big money offer or from a large publisher, so I took the following steps:

- I checked standard book contracts by searching online on UK websites
- I showed the contract to a family member who is a lawyer
- A friend of a friend works in publishing (here in Australia and formerly in the UK) and also checked the deal
(without these contacts, I would have hired an entertainment lawyer in the UK to review the contract)

The upshot was that the contract was pretty standard and all above board and I negotiated a few things, such as retaining the film/TV and game rights. I've just signed another deal with the same publisher, which was extremely relaxed the second time around.

Fortunately, there were no red flags in my contract, but I was told to ensure it had an expiry date and that all rights revert to me after that date and also if the publishing company goes bust.

Ideally, I would like to get an agent so that I don't have to worry about all this stuff, but while this first experience was stressful, it was also very exciting. Good luck!

Old Hack · Jun 20, 2019

The UK's Society of Authors provides an excellent, free, contract checking service for its members, which is worth far more than the cost of a year's membership.

I'm pretty sure that in her book, From Pitch to Publication, the late and much missed Carole Blake talks about how she negotiated contracts for her clients, and the sorts of things she would look for, but I'm not sure. (It's a fascinating book about the publishing world: a bit out of date now--she was writing an updated version when she died--and well worth reading even if it doesn't have the information you need.)

mrsfauthor · May 2, 2022

screenscope said:
Don't worry, it's perfectly normal and it all works out!

The key is not to panic (hard to do!) or feel rushed when a contract arrives. Whoever sent it to you expects you to get it checked out and negotiate, so if they pressure you to sign and return it straight away, that's a big red flag.

I couldn't get an agent, but I did receive a contract offer from a small UK publisher (which I accepted). It was too small to interest an agent, which would have been my first choice if it was a big money offer or from a large publisher, so I took the following steps:

- I checked standard book contracts by searching online on UK websites
- I showed the contract to a family member who is a lawyer
- A friend of a friend works in publishing (here in Australia and formerly in the UK) and also checked the deal
(without these contacts, I would have hired an entertainment lawyer in the UK to review the contract)

The upshot was that the contract was pretty standard and all above board and I negotiated a few things, such as retaining the film/TV and game rights. I've just signed another deal with the same publisher, which was extremely relaxed the second time around.

Fortunately, there were no red flags in my contract, but I was told to ensure it had an expiry date and that all rights revert to me after that date and also if the publishing company goes bust.

Ideally, I would like to get an agent so that I don't have to worry about all this stuff, but while this first experience was stressful, it was also very exciting. Good luck!

I wondered about this. If I get offered an advance on a book from an indep publisher, should I go to an agent and let them do the negotiation? (I have a contract now with no advance so obviously no agent).

Paul Lamb · May 2, 2022

mrsfauthor said:
I wondered about this. If I get offered an advance on a book from an indep publisher, should I go to an agent and let them do the negotiation? (I have a contract now with no advance so obviously no agent).

It's unlikely, if you get an offer for an advance from an indie publisher that it's going to be big enuf to interest an agent. His/her piece of the action would likely be too small to be worth the effort.

There are plenty of sites online that go into some detail about what a good contract should have in it and what red flags to watch out for.

Similar to what was mentioned above, if you're in the U.S. you might consider joining The Author's Guild to use their contract review/negotiation service. Annual membership (last time I checked) is $135, but that's far, far less than you'd pay for a lawyer to review and revise a contract.

Unimportant · May 2, 2022

mrsfauthor said:
I wondered about this. If I get offered an advance on a book from an indep publisher, should I go to an agent and let them do the negotiation? (I have a contract now with no advance so obviously no agent).

In a situation like "Baen wants to sign me to a three book deal with a $10,000 advance for the first book," I'd say yes, definitely approach agents and ask if they'd be willing to represent you and negotiate the contracts for these books.

In a situation like "Carina wants to publish my novel with a $300 advance," it's possible that an agent would negotiate the contract on a fee-for-hire basis without taking you as a client, but I expect the fee would be a lot more than the advance would cover.

It also depends on the offer from the indie press. If it's sufficiently limited, little negotiation may be needed. If it's insanely rights-grabbing, then you'll need to know your lines in the sand and draw them firmly, and be willing to walk away from the offer if they want something you're not prepared to give.

lizmonster · May 2, 2022

mrsfauthor said:
I wondered about this. If I get offered an advance on a book from an indep publisher, should I go to an agent and let them do the negotiation? (I have a contract now with no advance so obviously no agent).

I'd at least take a crack at interesting an agent in the process.

A lawyer can tell you what a contract says, but they can't tell you if it adheres to industry norms.

Worst case you get no takers, and you're back where you started.

Paul Lamb · May 3, 2022

I just walked away from an offer, in large part because the proposed contract was a huge rights grab (copyright, for example). I might have worked out a better contract on my own (I have a little experience with this) but there were other red flags about the publisher that made me look askance at them. Also, the advance was only $200, so I couldn't have lured an agent with that kind of money.

AW Admin · May 3, 2022

Paul Lamb said:
It's unlikely, if you get an offer for an advance from an indie publisher that it's going to be big enuf to interest an agent. His/her piece of the action would likely be too small to be worth the effort.

Indie does not mean small, indie means independent, or not one of the big 5 (or 4).

W. W. Norton is an independent publisher.

Nether · May 3, 2022

Paul Lamb said:
I just walked away from an offer, in large part because the proposed contract was a huge rights grab (copyright, for example). I might have worked out a better contract on my own (I have a little experience with this) but there were other red flags about the publisher that made me look askance at them. Also, the advance was only $200, so I couldn't have lured an agent with that kind of money.

There are a lot of sketchy indies who do stuff like that. It's probably worth mentioning your experience in the bewares section so less-savvy authors can have a heads-up.

mrsfauthor · May 4, 2022

Paul Lamb said:
It's unlikely, if you get an offer for an advance from an indie publisher that it's going to be big enuf to interest an agent. His/her piece of the action would likely be too small to be worth the effort.

There are plenty of sites online that go into some detail about what a good contract should have in it and what red flags to watch out for.

Similar to what was mentioned above, if you're in the U.S. you might consider joining The Author's Guild to use their contract review/negotiation service. Annual membership (last time I checked) is $135, but that's far, far less than you'd pay for a lawyer to review and revise a contract.

Yes, I'm a member of AG and the legal team has the contract currently. Makes sense that an agent would not be interested.

mrsfauthor · May 4, 2022

Unimportant said:
In a situation like "Baen wants to sign me to a three book deal with a $10,000 advance for the first book," I'd say yes, definitely approach agents and ask if they'd be willing to represent you and negotiate the contracts for these books.

In a situation like "Carina wants to publish my novel with a $300 advance," it's possible that an agent would negotiate the contract on a fee-for-hire basis without taking you as a client, but I expect the fee would be a lot more than the advance would cover.

It also depends on the offer from the indie press. If it's sufficiently limited, little negotiation may be needed. If it's insanely rights-grabbing, then you'll need to know your lines in the sand and draw them firmly, and be willing to walk away from the offer if they want something you're not prepared to give.

Luckily, an experienced author is helping me with this, pointing out points of concerns about this publisher as well as the good stuff. I am willing to walk away though if I don't feel I'm being treated fairly. Also, I have had several other full requests from small publishers so I am hopeful for another offer to at least compare the first one to. As long as this publisher allows me the time to do so.

mrsfauthor · May 4, 2022

lizmonster said:
I'd at least take a crack at interesting an agent in the process.

A lawyer can tell you what a contract says, but they can't tell you if it adheres to industry norms.

Worst case you get no takers, and you're back where you started.

Since I did not get offered an advance, I'm not sure what I have to tempt an agent with. I might make them angry?

lizmonster · May 4, 2022

mrsfauthor said:
Since I did not get offered an advance, I'm not sure what I have to tempt an agent with.

Ah. Yeah, with no advance you're unlikely to get interest.

mrsfauthor said:
I might make them angry?

Any agent who'd get angry with you for asking a professional question is not one you'd ever want to work with, ever.

mrsfauthor · May 4, 2022

lizmonster said:
Ah. Yeah, with no advance you're unlikely to get interest.

Any agent who'd get angry with you for asking a professional question is not one you'd ever want to work with, ever.

I mean I guess the angry would mean really annoyed, that I took up their time needlessly. but yeah, if they get angry, I definitely would not want to ever work with them. I ask a lot of "simple" questions ;-)

lizmonster · May 4, 2022

mrsfauthor said:
I mean I guess the angry would mean really annoyed, that I took up their time needlessly. but yeah, if they get angry, I definitely would not want to ever work with them. I ask a lot of "simple" questions ;-)

"Annoyed" is the same thing. It's true of any industry, not just agenting: if someone gets irritable with you for asking a professional question - however naive - maybe don't work with them.

What are the basics of negotiating with publishers?

efreysson

Closer than ever

screenscope

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman

mrsfauthor

Paul Lamb

Unimportant

No COVID yet. Still masking.

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen

Paul Lamb

AW Admin

Nether

is walking the plank at a pirate-themed water park

mrsfauthor

mrsfauthor

mrsfauthor

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen

mrsfauthor

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen