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Thread: Oh you and your momentary desires, says the Vatican

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  1. #1
    practical experience, FTW mccardey's Avatar
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    Oh you and your momentary desires, says the Vatican

    unhelpfully.
    The Vatican has issued an official document rejecting the idea that people can choose or change their genders and insisting on the sexual "complementarity" of men and women to make babies.
    It said the idea of gender being determined by personal feeling rather than biology was an attempt to "annihilate nature".

    <<snip>>

    "The real-life experiences of LGBT people seem entirely absent from this document," said the Reverend James Martin, a Jesuit priest who wrote a book on improving Catholic Church outreach to the LGBT community, titled Building a Bridge. "We should welcome the congregation's call to dialogue and listening on gender, and I hope that conversation will now begin."

  2. #2
    Techno-Cathar Perfect Diana Hignutt's Avatar
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    Fuck the Vatican.

    Buy Moonsword on Amazon Kindle for only $.99 May 7 to May 14, 2019

  3. #3
    practical experience, FTW mccardey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana Hignutt View Post
    Fuck the Vatican.
    I think Tim Minchin's got that covered. (VNSFW)
    Last edited by mccardey; 06-11-2019 at 02:43 PM. Reason: removing link to the very rude song about the pope because *tsk*.

  4. #4
    Charmingly manic AW Moderator Calla Lily's Avatar
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    #TearItAllDown

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  5. #5
    Snarkenfaugister Friendly Frog's Avatar
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    *sigh*

    Oh Francis, I had such high hopes for you to be a decent human. And how you keep dashing them.
    Crede esse ranas.

  6. #6
    practical experience, FTW mccardey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friendly Frog View Post
    *sigh*

    Oh Francis, I had such high hopes for you to be a decent human. And how you keep dashing them.
    I know what you mean. I wonder how much of it is him and how much the establishment around him.

  7. #7
    The King and Queen of Cheese BenPanced's Avatar
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    Yeah, no, sorry. As a former member of that club, I've come to expect nothing but party line bullshit from the guy. He can make as many "radical" or "liberal" statements as he likes; in the end, it's about ROI for the backers.
    I still poop rainbows.

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  8. #8
    ! Kaiser-Kun's Avatar
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    Shut up, Pope.
    Quote Originally Posted by blacbird
    You be a baaaaaad man.

  9. #9
    Pie aren't squared, pie are round! Introversion's Avatar
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    The Catholic church is a deeply conservative (in the old-school meaning of “resistant to change”) institution, so no surprise here.

    As an ex-Catholic, I confess I don’t understand why they’re still relevant? Other than inertia. One was indoctrinated into a church as a child, so one stays with and raises another generation in it? But, even most practicing Catholics I’ve known seem to treat it as an ala carte belief system. “Not use birth control? Well, let’s not be silly...”.

  10. #10
    Bigger Than A Bread Box Absolute Sage lizmonster's Avatar
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    All the thoughts I have about this. Like how much this feels like That Orange Person tossing a grenade to the MSM to cover for the latest familial malfeasance. Even setting aside the doctrinal aspects, I have some...trouble...with an organization that has such a steadily abysmal track record for dealing with crime and corruption in its ranks. Why are their spokespeople granted any credibility at all?

    But mostly I don't understand how anyone can look at the beautiful diversity of humanity and think any of its myriad variants are somehow wrong.

  11. #11
    Heckuva good sport frimble3's Avatar
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    Well, in view of the Church's lack of success at ending lying, stealing and killing, I guess the guy's got to try something.
    God forbid it be con men, gamblers, or cheats.
    Or, spousal abuse, child abuse, and violence in general.
    Divorce, adultery and rape?
    Really, in order of disappointments to God, transsexuals going about their business, like LGBT folk in general, should be the least of the Pope's concern.

    This is what I don't get about the emphasis on Leviticus. There are like, two sentences about men lying with men. There's a whole chapter on incest, and the various degrees thereof. Why isn't anyone fussing about that?

  12. #12
    In the vast expanse of center field Larry M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frimble3 View Post
    ...This is what I don't get about the emphasis on Leviticus. There are like, two sentences about men lying with men. There's a whole chapter on incest, and the various degrees thereof. Why isn't anyone fussing about that?
    The fake Christians love to cherry-pick their Bible verses to fuel their selective outrage.
    Larry

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  13. #13
    practical experience, FTW mccardey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry M View Post
    The fake Christians love to cherry-pick their Bible verses to fuel their selective outrage.
    You're saying that no real Christian would tie their beliefs to the bible, then? (William Tyndale would be disappointed - as would his agent...)

    I think that's sensible, but I don't usually classify as a Catholic or a Christian. I'm generally just here in the corner, sinning with everlasting impunity.
    Last edited by mccardey; 06-12-2019 at 03:12 AM.

  14. #14
    In the vast expanse of center field Larry M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mccardey View Post
    You're saying that no real Christian would tie their beliefs to the bible, then? (William Tyndale would be disappointed - as would his agent...)...
    I wrote "fake Christians." I didn't mention real Christians. I know some of both.
    Larry

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  15. #15
    practical experience, FTW mccardey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry M View Post
    I wrote "fake Christians." I didn't mention real Christians. I know some of both.
    But by definition, wouldn't your "real Christians" be cherry-picking the Bible?

  16. #16
    Hoopy frood JimmyB27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frimble3 View Post
    This is what I don't get about the emphasis on Leviticus. There are like, two sentences about men lying with men. There's a whole chapter on incest, and the various degrees thereof. Why isn't anyone fussing about that?
    It's something about not lying with a man as you lie with a woman, right? If you consider a different usage of the word 'as', to mean 'while' - in the sentence 'I was listening to the radio as I drove to work', for example - you can read that sentence as being against MMF threesomes, rather than homosexuality.

    ETA: not that there's anything wrong with threesomes either, but it's fun to play with words and it's also fun to wind up the homophobic tosspots who believe all this bollocks.
    Last edited by JimmyB27; 06-12-2019 at 02:46 PM.
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  17. #17
    Herder of Hamsters AW Admin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyB27 View Post
    It's something about not lying with a man as you lie with a woman, right? If you consider a different usage of the word 'as', to mean 'while' - in the sentence 'I was listening to the radio as I drove to work', for example - you can read that sentence as being against MMF threesomes, rather than homosexuality..
    It's actually not about homosexuality; it's about anal sex between men. Moreover, it's in a book intended for the purity laws of the Levites, and it's in a book that has conflated two separate MS. traditions, presenting the older version and the newer version one after the other.

  18. #18
    Heckuva good sport frimble3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyB27 View Post
    It's something about not lying with a man as you lie with a woman, right? If you consider a different usage of the word 'as', to mean 'while' - in the sentence 'I was listening to the radio as I drove to work', for example - you can read that sentence as being against MMF threesomes, rather than homosexuality.

    ETA: not that there's anything wrong with threesomes either, but it's fun to play with words and it's also fun to wind up the homophobic tosspots who believe all this bollocks.
    Yes, it's all in the interpretation. It could also be a reminder to not tell the same stories to your buddies as you do to your wife.

  19. #19
    I meant to do that. Lyv's Avatar
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    I'm cis-het and definitely not the authority on terminology. But years ago, I did the GLAAD training session on terminology. It was specifically geared toward speaking to the media, but I go to their terminology guide periodically to check terminology and try to keep up with any changes. Since others may find it helpful, I'll provide a link.

    (I'm not editing out the repetitions, but I was on the good medical marijuana edibles when I wrote this and am now aghast at how many times I typed "terminology." Reefer madness, indeed).
    Last edited by Lyv; 06-12-2019 at 05:41 AM.

  20. #20
    practical experience, FTW MaeZe's Avatar
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    Maybe in 400 years they'll figure out it is biology. They can officially apologize.

    I too had high hopes for Francis, especially after Ratzy who, IMO, is an anti-gay gay guy. They all have to know that at the Vatican, not to mention all the other gay men in that crowd. [I've read actual evidence, this isn't about name calling.] If only they hadn't been suppressed all their lives.
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  21. #21
    practical experience, FTW mccardey's Avatar
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    I would have loved to be able to return to the Church of my childhood and I do miss it - but oh dear god once you've seen the harm it does, it's impossible to overlook it - and the good it does do becomes good that anyone with a heart would do. Which, in the end, covers all the religions as far as I can see.

  22. #22
    practical experience, FTW MaeZe's Avatar
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    Well, getting back to the Vatican, Pope Francis is admitting a whole slew of the male clergy have made a habit out of raping the Nuns along with expecting them to do all the chores, cooking, cleaning, laundry...

    USA: Pope publicly admits priests, bishops have sexually abused nuns
    ABOARD THE PAPAL PLANE – Pope Francis has for the first time publicly acknowledged the scandal of priests and bishops sexually abusing nuns and says he is committed to doing more to fight the problem.

    Speaking to reporters Tuesday, Francis noted that Pope Benedict XVI had taken action against a France-based order after some of its religious sisters had been reduced to “sexual slavery” at the hands of the priest who founded the order and other priests.

    “Should we do something more? Yes. Is there the will? Yes. But it’s a path that we have already begun,” Francis said while returning home from the United Arab Emirates.

    “It’s not that everyone does this, but there have been priests and bishops who have,” Francis added. “And I think that it’s continuing because it’s not like once you realize it that it stops. It continues. And for some time we’ve been working on it.”
    And these are the people that think homosexuality is un-Godly.

    There's a side story on that page on Pence praising the decision not to let our embassies fly rainbow flags. Scumbag.
    I AM NOT WHAT YOU THINK!
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    I am confused and afraid
    I wonder what path I will take
    I hear that thereís only two ways out
    I see mothers bury their sons
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    I am confused and afraid

    I pretend all is fine
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    I cry no more
    I am confused and afraid

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    I hope that it does
    I am confused and afraid

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  23. #23
    Bigger Than A Bread Box Absolute Sage lizmonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaeZe View Post

    And these are the people that think homosexuality is un-Godly.
    Which is the thing. I wasn't raised in any religion, and I've been told I miss a lot, but - whatever your individual beliefs, whatever your spirituality, I don't understand how anyone can lend this particular set of humans any kind of moral authority. "[W]orking on it"? Whatever they've been doing doesn't seem to have translated into actual accountability.

  24. #24
    In the vast expanse of center field Larry M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lizmonster View Post
    Which is the thing. I wasn't raised in any religion, and I've been told I miss a lot, but - whatever your individual beliefs, whatever your spirituality, I don't understand how anyone can lend this particular set of humans any kind of moral authority. "[W]orking on it"? Whatever they've been doing doesn't seem to have translated into actual accountability.
    The Catholic Church has survived countless scandals over the centuries. They've gotten pretty good at sweeping them under the rug while still maintaining that "moral authority" and considerable control over their flock.

    Both of my parent's families are Catholic. My parents removed themselves from the church decades ago, but my Mom's sisters remain devout. They are more than willing to overlook anything and everything as are a great many Catholics. My aunts say there is nothing they can do about any of it, so they shake their heads and say more Hail Marys.
    Larry

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  25. #25
    Hoopy frood JimmyB27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry M View Post
    ...say more Hail Marys.
    Off topic question, but I've always wondered - what is with that saying Hail Marys thing? Is it literally just saying "Hail Mary" the prescribed number of times? And that gets you straight with God? The supreme leader and all powerful creator of the universe is mollified by you muttering a certain phrase a few times?
    Destiny Deceived - Internet serial story. Written by one of the best writers I have ever been.

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