Anyone ever try two freelance (developmental) editors?

starrystorm

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So, I've been trying to decide on a plan to edit my novel that I want to self-publish. I've decided to skip betas (maybe) and have two professional freelance editors instead. My mom has a couple of friends who are editors so that's a discount cost-wise (I've never met them so it's not like having a friend edit) and I was thinking about hiring another who only specializes in YA. That way I would have two professional opinions coming in at the same time.

I think it would be helpful. Of course, if anyone's actually tried it I would love to know how it went.


P.S. I haven't decided on anything yet, but this seems to be the course I keep coming back to.
 
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Marissa D

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A few questions: What kind of editing do your mother's friends do? If they concentrate, say, on content editing for non-fiction or memoirs and your book is fiction, the edits they give you might not be particularly helpful, even at a discounted price. Editors are not one-size-fits-all. And what kind of editing are you looking for? Content editing? Line editing, to help out with prose glitches? A final proofread for errors and punctuation correction?

For what it's worth, in your shoes I would do content edits with a YA editor, and find out exactly what kind of editing your mom's friends do; it might be that one could work with you on line edits. A really good line editor is worth their weight in gold.
 

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It sounds like you don't mean, say, hiring a developmental editor and later a copy editor, but hiring two editors to do the same thing? Not clear, though. What kind of editing would these two people do for you? When you hire an editor, it's important to be clear on what type of editing they are doing for you.
 

mccardey

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My mom has a couple of friends who are editors so that's a discount cost-wise (I've never met them so it's not like having a friend edit)
Are you talking about a developmental editor? Depending on your Mum's relationship to them, it might be a bit like having a friend edit: they might prioritise their relationship with your mum over their actual response. I wouldn't be too quick to cut costs that way, myself - getting the right editor is important.
 

starrystorm

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Are you talking about a developmental editor? Depending on your Mum's relationship to them, it might be a bit like having a friend edit: they might prioritise their relationship with your mum over their actual response. I wouldn't be too quick to cut costs that way, myself - getting the right editor is important.

I've worked with one of the two before (when I was beginning high school and knew nothing about books.) She went tough on me, actually called my Mom and asked her if I would cry, because she wouldn't edit if I would. I also wouldn't say they are mom's friends because my mom only really knows the one I want to work with through a Bible Study Group.

And yes, I want two developmental editors.


ETA: Am changing title to make it clearer.
 

lizmonster

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Are you talking about a developmental editor? Depending on your Mum's relationship to them, it might be a bit like having a friend edit: they might prioritise their relationship with your mum over their actual response. I wouldn't be too quick to cut costs that way, myself - getting the right editor is important.

This. I'd be extremely wary of getting a professional edit from a friend of a friend. If you go this route, treat it exactly like the edit from a stranger: get a contract, including what the edit will cover, cost, overruns, and timeframe.

My mom is a retired attorney, and it's my opinion contracts are much more important with friends than with strangers. A good contract protects both of you, and makes the transaction much, much more positive.
 

starrystorm

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This. I'd be extremely wary of getting a professional edit from a friend of a friend. If you go this route, treat it exactly like the edit from a stranger: get a contract, including what the edit will cover, cost, overruns, and timeframe.

My mom is a retired attorney, and it's my opinion contracts are much more important with friends than with strangers. A good contract protects both of you, and makes the transaction much, much more positive.

Thank you. I do plan on emailing her ahead of time and discuss costs/edit rates if she accepts my request.
 

mccardey

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And yes, I want two developmental editors.
Unless there's a specific reason for this, I think you might be better putting the investment into one really excellent editor. It's always tempting to cut corners and costs with something as ephemeral as writing, but really professionalism doesn't work that way.

ETA: I would also be concerned that with two dev. ed.s, you're going to be either over- or under-valuing their input. You're making yourself the Third Editor any time you have a point of disagreement between them - that's not good. It's okay to be Writer disagreeing with Editor, but you need to do that on your own terms.
 
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starrystorm

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I also forgot to add that I'm in college so money is a bit tight at the moment which is why I'm considering using my mother's friends. They know this as well and this is why they are offering to help (as well as their interest in editing).
 

starrystorm

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Unless there's a specific reason for this, I think you might be better putting the investment into one really excellent editor. It's always tempting to cut corners and costs with something as ephemeral as writing, but really professionalism doesn't work that way.

I was hoping for this kind of advice. Honestly, I thought having two editors was better than one since I am a) self publishing and b) skipping betas.

My biggest fear is changing the story for one person's opinion, hence the two editors.
 

lizmonster

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I also forgot to add that I'm in college so money is a bit tight at the moment which is why I'm considering using my mother's friends. They know this as well and this is why they are offering to help (as well as their interest in editing).

Welllllllllll...generally you're going to get what you pay for in an editor. You really need to understand what sort of editing these people do, and you really need a contract. Cutting rates for a friend's kid is great. Charging a friend's kid for something you don't generally do, or for something that kid doesn't actually need, is not so great.

(And I don't mean to accuse your mom's friends of bad faith. We did, though, have someone here a few months ago who'd opted to have an edit done by their parent's friend, and it went way overtime and over cost and they didn't get what they needed from it at all.)

The good news is if they're professionals they should have a standard contract at their fingertips.

My biggest fear is changing the story for one person's opinion, hence the two editors.

So, a little meta-advice here: you need to have enough of a handle on what you want your story to be to pick and choose the editorial feedback you follow. You need to be able to look at any feedback you get, and decide what does and doesn't make sense for your story. A good developmental editor isn't going to make corrections, they're going to make suggestions. Only you can decide which suggestions properly fit your work.

I mostly agreed with my editor's suggestions, but sometimes he was in the weeds. Since it was my name going on the book it was really important for me to understand when he wasn't getting my vision.
 

starrystorm

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Welllllllllll...generally you're going to get what you pay for in an editor. You really need to understand what sort of editing these people do, and you really need a contract. Cutting rates for a friend's kid is great. Charging a friend's kid for something you don't generally do, or for something that kid doesn't actually need, is not so great.

Yeah. I know there's not much I can do money-wise. But maybe I don't have to waste it if I pick a good enough editor. Is there a beware thread on AW for freelance editors?

(And I don't mean to accuse your mom's friends of bad faith. We did, though, have someone here a few months ago who'd opted to have an edit done by their parent's friend, and it went way overtime and over cost and they didn't get what they needed from it at all.)

The good news is if they're professionals they should have a standard contract at their fingertips.

Oh man, I think that was me. I did have my "world's greatest epic fantasy" in high school edited by my mom's friend and it was a disaster mainly because I wasn't happy with the plot when I sent it in to be edited.



So, a little meta-advice here: you need to have enough of a handle on what you want your story to be to pick and choose the editorial feedback you follow. You need to be able to look at any feedback you get, and decide what does and doesn't make sense for your story. A good developmental editor isn't going to make corrections, they're going to make suggestions. Only you can decide which suggestions properly fit your work.

I mostly agreed with my editor's suggestions, but sometimes he was in the weeds. Since it was my name going on the book it was really important for me to understand when he wasn't getting my vision.


The problem with that is I'm a person pleaser (aka wishy-washy). I want to make people happy even if it means doing what they suggest without thinking it through. I feel like I'll just blindly follow one editor, but maybe if I had two, it could work out.
 

mccardey

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The problem with that is I'm a person pleaser (aka wishy-washy). I want to make people happy even if it means doing what they suggest without thinking it through. I feel like I'll just blindly follow one editor, but maybe if I had two, it could work out.

See the amendment in #8 (Yes, I'm quoting myself. So? ;) )
 

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Yeah. I know there's not much I can do money-wise. But maybe I don't have to waste it if I pick a good enough editor. Is there a beware thread on AW for freelance editors?

Not specifically as far as I'm aware, but you can ask once you have some names.

Oh man, I think that was me. I did have my "world's greatest epic fantasy" in high school edited by my mom's friend and it was a disaster mainly because I wasn't happy with the plot when I sent it in to be edited.

Okay. Definitely don't give money to your mom's friends without a contract. A timeboxed contract.

The problem with that is I'm a person pleaser (aka wishy-washy). I want to make people happy even if it means doing what they suggest without thinking it through. I feel like I'll just blindly follow one editor, but maybe if I had two, it could work out.

A professional editor isn't going to have any emotional investment in whether or not you take their feedback. (They're not even going to know, unless they buy your book after it's published.) They're not going to be pleased if you agree with their advice, or displeased if you don't. I would take it as a huge red flag if I were working with someone whose ego I was concerned about bruising.

I really think you'd benefit from some Share Your Work feedback, and beta readers. Is there a reason you've decided against that avenue?
 

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There's a publishing FAQ on Service Providers, which includes some advice.

I would suggest it's premature to hire an editor. I would encourage you to use beta editors, first, and save your money for a really good editor that you have references for, who edits your kind of book.
 
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starrystorm

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Okay. First off, thank you everyone, I was not expecting this much concern or replies. This is my first time seriously attempting to get self-published and I appreciate all of the time you guys have put into this crazy thread.

In conclusion, I have to rethink this whole thing. :e2beat::chores I'm going to start considering betas once again, maybe ask a few others here that are self-published what their routine is. I am kind of bummed that using someone I know who's an editor is a terrible idea. It's like, what's the point in making friends who are editors if they can't help you? :e2bummed:

But I'm in this game for the long run, and I'll do whatever it takes to be published. I guess there's no cutting corners in this business. Back to square one.
 

mccardey

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It's like, what's the point in making friends who are editors if they can't help you? :e2bummed:
I'm sure you don't mean it to sound like that :ROFL:

But friends are good, and editors are good, and editors who are friends can be very helpful. You just want to think twice about mixing business and friends. Are you hiring them and paying full price for their very professional and valuable time, or are you approaching them as friend who can support you because they love you and won't get too picky about your flaws?
 

starrystorm

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I'm sure you don't mean it to sound like that :ROFL:

Yes, I did see the dark humor in that sentence, and I was wondering if it was just me

But friends are good, and editors are good, and editors who are friends can be very helpful. You just want to think twice about mixing business and friends. Are you hiring them and paying full price for their very professional and valuable time, or are you approaching them as friend who can support you because they love you and won't get too picky about your flaws?

[/QUOTE]

Mccardey, you are too helpful. I'm sure these friends of my mother's will be helpful in other areas and maybe even be a mentor to my writing. Perhaps they could be betas? I don't know. One of the women, from what my mom has said, was super excited to edit my work, and I feel bad letting her down. I'll seriously have to consider what to do next carefully.
 

lizmonster

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It's like, what's the point in making friends who are editors if they can't help you? :e2bummed:

In addition to what mccardey said, I'm going to share with you the two most important lessons I've learned. (I acknowledge that others view writing and publishing differently, YMMV, etc.)

Writing is art. Publishing is business. The people on the business side aren't looking at your work the same way you are. This doesn't mean they don't sincerely enjoy it or aren't excited about working on it. But they are working on it. It's their job. And yes, if you want genuine, professional editors dealing with your work, you want them to see it as a job and not some passionate product of your inner emotional self.

Personally, I've found the intersection of writing and publishing to be frequently strange and unsettling. Which brings me to the second lesson: Nobody else cares about your work as much as you do. Once again, this isn't a dig at them, or a suggestion that they're not 100% in your corner when they're working with you. People in publishing love books, and they love discovering something that really speaks to them. They can help you, advise you, fight for you, help you make deals and publicize and all kinds of things. But none of them care about your work as much as you do. If you're working with solid pros, that's not an issue, because business or otherwise you'll all be on the same page. If you're not? Your work is really going to need your advocacy.

Be nice about other things. About your writing? Be cheerful and professional and clear-eyed and ready to fight like hell.
 

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Two editors? :scared:

Can't really say much more than: DON'T

Well, I'm seldom at a loss for words, and since I'm here: If you're just looking for proofreading, then maybe it would be harmless, but in all probability a waste of your time and money.

If you're wanting to undergo a "proper" editing process (by which I mean a developmental and copyediting process) then it should be an iterative process whereby you and your editor work as partners to polish your work together. Your book will probably undergo a number of significant changes as you work through the process together. My own editor persuaded me to remove an entire sub-plot and one of my main characters. She was right to do so. No two editors will have the same views, so you risk creating a recipe for utter confusion.

Editor #1: Think about changing sub-plot B like this, and then kill off character A in Chapter 3?
You: Great idea, O wondrous editing guru! *type, type, scribble, scribble*
Editor #2: Wtf happened to the Daffodil Crisis in the end? And the goldfish is DEAD??!!

Actually, it's going to be worse than that. And it won't be enlivened by my brilliant sense of humour...

Seriously - get one good, independent editor. Important - NOT your mum's buddies. I happen to know one I cannot recommend highly enough :applause:

If nothing else, it'll be half the price.

Best of luck, whatever you decide!

Nuff said. Beam me up, Scotty. :mothership:
 
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