Sekiro

shortstorymachinist

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Anyone banging their head against the latest game-shaped wall FromSoftware has built? The atmosphere, exploration, and world building are top notch, but the combat mechanics are...hard.
 

Kjbartolotta

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I've only played the first 15 minutes, then had to stop to do adult things. Haven't gotten in a fight yet.

I'm a huge fan of the FROM design philosophy, though as a player I find their playing games is often a miserable experience. Jumping and sneaking may mitigate some of that.
 

shortstorymachinist

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I'm very curious to hear your thoughts on it when you've had time to play more. I'll say this: Dark Souls and Bloodborne took a little while to get used to, but not so long that it put me off playing the game. I've put at least 10 hours into Sekiro so far and I still haven't gitted gud.

ETA: And the jumping and sneaking is delightful.
 

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Hmm. I've played Souls for something like 200+ hours, and I still suck.

I'm old enough to get strong Tenchu vibes from it, which I also remember was very hard and fiddly. What particularly is kicking your ass?
 

shortstorymachinist

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The posture mechanic is brutal. There's no stamina bar anymore, but they replaced it with a posture meter that you have to fill up before you can break an enemy's stance and hit them for HP damage. You can sometimes sneak in an HP hit when their guard is down, but it's not much. I end up running in circles around the harder enemies for ten minutes, slowly chipping away at their health bar.

ETA: And the posture meter empties if you're not constantly putting pressure on an enemy, so what FROM wants is for players to walk up, strike the enemy's guard twice, parry three times in a row, strike twice more to break the guard, then deliver the coup de grace. What they get is me being bad at parries for a very long time until I give up and revert to the aforementioned running in circles strategy.
 
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Kjbartolotta

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Ok, I'm starting to see it now. There's a kid I'm supposed to rescue, and down the stairs from him is a door. And I keep dying trying to get to that door, because I can't get the block timing right. And I so want to play this like Dark Souls, but know it's only gonna make it harder. So it's gonna be one of these types of games...
 
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shortstorymachinist

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Yup. I've gotten real good at stealth killing anything I don't absolutely have to fight.
 

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Ok, finally have a weekend with this, still just getting started. These are thoughts.

-Everything in the game feels so incredibly good and polished, and of all the FROM games I've played (going back all the way to King's Field), this one feels the most well-designed and satisfying to the player. Jumping and sneaking are not only fun, but perfectly executed and integrated into the game in one of the best ways I've ever seen.

-Related, this is some of the best level design I've ever seen.

-The game hates me and wants me to suffer every second. I haven't even faced a major boss yet, just big sword guys that embarrass me every time, even when I think I'm going in with a winning strategy. I actually like the posture mechanic, just aware that its designed to cause me pain more than enjoyment. Cue conversation about artistic vision vs accessibility.

-I miss Fashion Souls. Extremely grateful there's no multiplayer tho, I've never played Souls online, but the features implemented to make that happen always foul up the single player experience.

-Geralt Wolf is a cool protagonist. I like how there's a more focused story, but it still has that dank mysterious vibe I enjoy. I just noticed the carver only has one arm.
 

shortstorymachinist

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Yeah, Stockholm syndrome is in full effect for me now. I can recall the fact that I was extremely frustrated FROM did this to me when I first started, but now I'm slogging through with grim appreciation.

Their signature story-telling techniques are definitely in full effect here, which I love seeing in a story with an actual protagonist. I'm looking forward to replaying and seeing all the important little elements I never noticed the first time through.
 

Bufty

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Just started Sekiro today after applying the ultrawidescreen 21:9 3440x1440 fix and it's looking very good.

I'm enjoying the sneaking and parrying. Three down so far and another two ahead by the gate.
 

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I'm not playing Sekiro, but my family are! I just like to sit and watch. (They are on Higyu now.) My 7-year-old is learning some old words and phrases – it's his first contact with archaic language and he is very interested.

Fun fact – the beautiful blue hydrangeas along the paths and stairs are an anachronism. There were no hydrangeas in Sengoku-period Japan :troll
 

shortstorymachinist

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Just started Sekiro today after applying the ultrawidescreen 21:9 3440x1440 fix and it's looking very good.

I'm enjoying the sneaking and parrying. Three down so far and another two ahead by the gate.

Hurrah! Another member for the masochist parade! I just beat it, and fitbit tells me my BPM hit like 120 for three minutes during the final boss. Based on that I can recommend the whole game as a workout routine.

I'm not playing Sekiro, but my family are! I just like to sit and watch. (They are on Higyu now.) My 7-year-old is learning some old words and phrases – it's his first contact with archaic language and he is very interested.

Fun fact – the beautiful blue hydrangeas along the paths and stairs are an anachronism. There were no hydrangeas in Sengoku-period Japan :troll

Whoooa I didn't know that! That's funny because I think I commented on the verisimilitude when I saw them the first time. Apparently not!
 

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I just beat it, and fitbit tells me my BPM hit like 120 for three minutes during the final boss. Based on that I can recommend the whole game as a workout routine.

Huh. I was planning on spending all day playing, but am pathetically weak after recovering from a bad flu. Now I'm worried the game is gonna kill me. ​(still gonna do it)
 

shortstorymachinist

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Huh. I was planning on spending all day playing, but am pathetically weak after recovering from a bad flu. Now I'm worried the game is gonna kill me. ​(still gonna do it)

Did you pre-order? If you did, it should have come with an auto-defibrillator, otherwise might want to hold off. ​(do it do it do it)
 

Bufty

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Well, I'm through to the safety of the first sculptors idol and killed nobody en route except a couple of over-enthusiastic guards. A bit of quick-witted nipping to one side and up and over roof tops, and hanging onto ledges, got me to the hidden passage under the moat. Must say I'm enjoying this. It's different.
 

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Well, I'm through to the safety of the first sculptors idol and killed nobody en route except a couple of over-enthusiastic guards. A bit of quick-witted nipping to one side and up and over roof tops, and hanging onto ledges, got me to the hidden passage under the moat. Must say I'm enjoying this. It's different.

Took me forever to get that far! For some reason, you can't block until you get the prosthetic, which made that intro much harder than it should have been. As hard as the game is, I feel like it gives enough different solutions and options that it never feels tedious and I keep wanting to go back for more.

Tell Hanbei hi for me :D
 

shortstorymachinist

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:popcorn: This is what I love about FROM games. I feel a warm sense of camaraderie knowing we're all going through the same trial by fire.
 

Bufty

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Hi, Kj,

Not sure what you mean when you say you can't 'block' until you get the prosthetic. If I understand you correctly you seem to be saying you can't block an attacker's swing until the prosthetic arm is available, but that is not so.

I'm on the PC version and a 'block' is achieved by a right mouse button press just before the attacker's blow reaches you.

There must be an equivalent move for whatever version you are playing.

Took me forever to get that far! For some reason, you can't block until you get the prosthetic, which made that intro much harder than it should have been. As hard as the game is, I feel like it gives enough different solutions and options that it never feels tedious and I keep wanting to go back for more.

Tell Hanbei hi for me :D
 
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Kjbartolotta

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Hi, Kj,

Not sure what you mean when you say you can't 'block' until you get the prosthetic. If I understand you correctly you seem to be saying you can't block an attacker's swing until the prosthetic arm is available, but that is not so.

I'm on the PC version and a 'block' is achieved by a right mouse button press just before the attacker's blow reaches you.

There must be an equivalent move for whatever version you are playing.

The timed block, yes, holding block to deflect attacks, no. At least, in my experience, and only in the intro. (Or I am crazy?)
 

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I believe you can hold block to try and deflect attacks but if you continually hold the block button depressed you won't be able to 'parry' so you will have a hard time.
 
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Bufty

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Just a quickie in Sekiro, guys.

What does it mean when I see folk saying they're playing a 'loop' to practice? What's a loop and how do I create one? I presently slay a few guys and then choose to back to the idol and then replay the same section to gain experience, but if I die instead of choosing to go back, I lose half my cash and stuff.

Is my understanding of 'loop' correct or is there another way to do it?

Thanks.
 

shortstorymachinist

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Just a quickie in Sekiro, guys.

What does it mean when I see folk saying they're playing a 'loop' to practice? What's a loop and how do I create one? I presently slay a few guys and then choose to back to the idol and then replay the same section to gain experience, but if I die instead of choosing to go back, I lose half my cash and stuff.

Is my understanding of 'loop' correct or is there another way to do it?

Thanks.

I'm pretty sure you're doing it the right way. I don't know of anything else that might be a loop besides using the idol to reset an area.
 

shortstorymachinist

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By the way, in case anyone is unobservant like me and would like to NOT go through half the game making it harder than necessary: Unlike Dark Souls, you recover posture more quickly if you ARE holding the block button. I didn't pick up on that until much too late.
 

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I recently reached the final boss and have such mixed feelings about this game. On the one hand, the world traversal feels incredible. Moving through Sekiro’s areas is more engaging and mechanically satisfying than any Soulsborne I’ve played except my Dead Cells (if that counts). The setting itself might not top DS or Bloodborne for me, but it’s utterly gorgeous, and a breath of fresh air after so much time spent in western high fantasy with the Souls games. There are so many delightful little surprises everywhere, and plenty of that From mystery and horror I love so much.

But. The boss battles. Hm, what to say about the boss battles. At a core design level I’m convinced they’re antithetical to the rest of the game. Sekiro’s worlds are all about this incredible freedom of traversal. There are so many ways to tackle every challenge. Hurl across the rooftops. Stealth and stab from behind. Trip your enemies up with your shinobi arsenal. Run through the crowd like a madman. It’s exhilarating.

And then. And then. You reach a boss, and suddenly there’s a brick wall in front of you. No more sneaking around the shadows like a proper shinobi. No more zipping around rooftops and treelines with your grappling hook (in most cases). No more using the environment to your advantage (with a few great exceptions).

Instead, you’re bottlenecked into a battle that requires absolute mastery of a specific set of techniques to advance. Sekiro boss fights have more in common with DDR, Guitar Hero, and rhythm games writ large than they do with traditional Soulsborne battles. Survival depends on memorizing this one enemy’s exact patterns and rhythms and attack beats so you can counter each one with specificity and purpose. It’s grueling, time-consuming, and as satisfying as it can be to master I honestly kind of hate it. I spent entire afternoons on some of these motherfuckers when I would rather have been doing almost anything else in the game. The challenge feels almost artificial to me, again at odds with many of the skills I use elsewhere in the game and other Soulsbornes.

So yeah, at this point I know all of them except the last one by heart. I can kick the guy’s ass at the very beginning. But I didn’t enjoy getting to this point in the way I enjoyed Dark Souls or Bloodborne battles. I ground my way through them like a poorly balanced JRPG. I’ve come out the other side with a memorized set of specific counters that have almost nothing in common with the way I play the parts of Sekiro I truly love for the exploratory shinobi simulator it is.

I’ve spent almost 60 hours on this first playthrough, and it’s frankly too much. That’s more than twice what it took me to complete my first run of any other FromSoftware title. It’s roughly akin to how much time I spent hitting 107% of Hollow Knight, except 90% of my time with Hallow Knight was spent actually exploring and uncovering new story and worldbuilding details. I would say that’s only been about 30-40% of my Sekiro experience. The rest was just banging my head against a brick wall until I broke through. Now, nearly on the other side, I’m not sure if my newly thickened skull was worth it.
 

Kjbartolotta

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TBH, as much as I love SoulsBourne games (and I include Hollow Knight in this) the unforgiving boss memorization bottlenecks are ALWAYS where I lose interest and start Youtubing the ending & parts I've missed.