beta queries?

abdall

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Is there a place where you can have someone beta read your query letter? I'll be frank, query letters kind of make me wish I was dead and I finally got to a point where I don't love mine, but I don't want to set it on fire. I just want to make it better and I know that generally having more people read your stuff is helpful so I just want to improve this thing, but I know that at this point I need a fresh set of eyes.
 
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mrsmig

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Try Query Letter Hell, here at AW in the Share Your Work subforum. The password is "vista." Be sure to read the stickies and a few of the current query threads to get a feel for the place before you post.
 

Maryn

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We critique queries on one of the Share Your Work boards, Query Letter Hell. It's important to read the stickies and get a feel for the room before you paste yours up--and the very best way is to critique some other people's queries.

It's funny-weird, isn't it, how hard queries are for good writers?
 

MaeZe

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....

It's funny-weird, isn't it, how hard queries are for good writers?
That gives me some confidence my totally novice query writing doesn't mean I'm over-confident my WIP is at least decent. The sub-forum title is indeed the right one.

Abdall, come to Query Letter Hell. I'm getting great feedback there and making progress, slow as it is.
 

abdall

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Are query letters really hard for everyone??? I thought it was just me! Honestly, the thought of finishing another novel is less daunting to me than writing a query letter. I'm not being hyperbolic, that's literally what happened. I'll definitely check out query letter hell, although it feels like I just got out of query letter hell. I just finished mine today, which I feel is kind of sad because I finished the book like 4 years ago.
 
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abdall

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We critique queries on one of the Share Your Work boards, Query Letter Hell. It's important to read the stickies and get a feel for the room before you paste yours up--and the very best way is to critique some other people's queries.

It's funny-weird, isn't it, how hard queries are for good writers?

I don't know if I'd call it funny, mostly because it causes me so much anguish. I've spent months writing something that's like...barely a page long. It's maddening. At least it's not just me.
 

JJ Litke

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It’s not so strange if you think it through. You’ve probably never even read a query before needing to write one, so there’s really no reason that it should be easy.

Personally, I find the easiest time to write the query is before I write the first draft, when I’m still in the planning stages. It helps me get a handle on the main throughline. And there’s a hell of a lot less pressure at that point. It’s even a little fun.

I know that doesn’t help you guys now, but think about it the next time you’re starting a project.
 

MaeZe

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Query Shark is another place to get feedback. I think it fits the beta read quest.

Honestly, I need it all, AW, Query Shark, and my critique group. I'm getting ideas one key word at a time.
 

Harlequin

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Queries are hard for a variety of reasons.

The first is that they're a format at odds with actual novel writing, being structured in a totally different way with different goals in mind. They have to be specific but not overly detailed, convey voice and plot and tension without giving too much away. They don't start in the same place as your book and they often focus on things which are both more subtle and more obvious than in the actual novel.

For me specifically, as someone who does not plan very much, I find queries hard simply because they are structured, and tightly planned. Both of those things are anathema to me. I tend to start these days by using PubCrawl's 1 page synopsis worksheet, and fillingout a synopsis, then cutting back to a query. I take a long time to write my queries, months usually (or in the case of MS1, over 2 years) while I work on the book side by side.

See you in QLH, op!
 

aus10phile

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Chiming in just to agree with everyone else that queries are hard for nearly everyone! I've written over 1,500 radio ads in my career as a copywriter, which are basically 150-180 words to make a pitch. And it still took me over 20 drafts of my first query letter to write one that wasn't awful! They are their own beast and a learned skill IMHO. It's a weird blend of marketing (figuring out what hooks) and storytelling.
 

Barbara R.

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Are query letters really hard for everyone??? I thought it was just me! Honestly, the thought of finishing another novel is less daunting to me than writing a query letter. I'm not being hyperbolic, that's literally what happened. I'll definitely check out query letter hell, although it feels like I just got out of query letter hell. I just finished mine today, which I feel is kind of sad because I finished the book like 4 years ago.

Better late than never!

I used to be a literary agent till I gave it up to become a full-time coal miner---I mean writer. I wrote a few blog posts wearing my agent's hat to give writers some insight into what agents want: here's one of them. The main reason query letters are so tough to write (for me, too, btw!) is the blurb. If you could adequately describe your story in a paragraph or two, why would you have written several hundred pages? But it needs to be done, and it's a test of a sort; so this post , "Your Novel in One Paragraph," focuses on writing that all-important blurb.

Hope they help.
 

Shoeless

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I've been trying to tell my husband that writing a query letter is more difficult than writing a novel. He's not convinced. :cry:

I will totally agree with you that queries are much harder than writing novels. If I never have to write a query again, I'll have no regrets about that. I find them difficult, stressful, demoralizing and not fun at all. For me the query is the complete opposite, in every way, of writing a novel. And the yet, ironically, you need to write a good one to get your novel trade published.
 

WeaselFire

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My problem with query letters is two-fold. The first part is that agents are not alike (Thank God!) and what works for one agent at a particular time may turn off another one. And this is something you can't predict. Thus, staying middle of the road could be a smart move since it has a better chance of appealing to an agent where going to the extreme might knock out 90% of agents but better guarantee that perfect fit with an agent. I've seen query letters that, by all advice you read, should never work but they get an agent that fits the author and the book perfectly.

The second part of my problem is exactly what's described by many of these responses, what do you emphasize in your story? Is the plot the most compelling part or is it the characters? In the book it's obviously how the characters interact and the plot unfolds, but try boiling that down to a paragraph. If you're writing a cozy mystery series then the characters have to hold up for the long term where in a sci-fi or fantasy series it might be the world that provides the links and many of the characters are disposable. But which will sell an agent on the author?

In the end, query letters are often a crap shoot. It's that fifteen seconds of commercial time that makes the viewer say "Oooohhh, that's something I need to know more about." Kind of the "Do you need Albumilia? Ask your doctor to find out..."

I hate those commercials. But there are so many of them they must work on someone. :)

Jeff
 
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Woollybear

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Cynical Patty (who has no success on which to base her opinion, only failure and observation) believes that sex sells, and violence sells. Drugs and rock and roll, those sell. Abuse sells, and basically any twenty car pile-up with flames will sell, too. Because people rubberneck to look at any of that.

So if I were to write a query letter without a novel in hand, my mind a blank slate save the cynicism, I'd start with:

... scantily-clad men and women tangling with each other in a mud wrestling tournament at Coachella, all while shouting epithets in a haze of peyote. The winner will go backstage to have sex with the lead singer after their set.

Or something equally gratuitous. As a story, the Coachella mud wrestling contest might be a horrible idea, but I cynically bet more people would be curious to see it than the climate change story I've been shopping around for close to a year.

It may be that what some of us write in novels are the things we think are missing in novels. But query letters are a different game entirely, to my way of thinking anyway. If the game is to write well-drawn characters struggling with a common issue to humanity, that's one thing. If the game is to get someone's attention, that's different.

The idea of writing the query first is an interesting one, and one that I've played with over the months for the second book in my series. The approach brings a different set of issues but I've seen it work for people and it's worth considering.
 
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mpack

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There's a successful queries thread in QLH. There's also a link to a successful queries spreadsheet floating about (might be in that thread even.)

I've not seen anything to support what you're saying here.


Cynical Patty (who has no success on which to base her opinion, only failure and observation) believes that sex sells, and violence sells. Drugs and rock and roll, those sell. Abuse sells, and basically any twenty car pile-up with flames will sell, too. Because people rubberneck to look at any of that.

So if I were to write a query letter without a novel in hand, my mind a blank slate save the cynicism, I'd start with:

... scantily-clad men and women tangling with each other in a mud wrestling tournament at Coachella, all while shouting epithets in a haze of peyote. The winner will go backstage to have sex with the lead singer after their set.

Or something equally gratuitous. As a story, the Coachella mud wrestling contest might be a horrible idea, but I cynically bet more people would be curious to see it than the climate change story I've been shopping around for close to a year.

It may be that what some of us write in novels are the things we think are missing in novels. But query letters are a different game entirely, to my way of thinking anyway. If the game is to write well-drawn characters struggling with a common issue to humanity, that's one thing. If the game is to get someone's attention, that's different.

The idea of writing the query first is an interesting one, and one that I've played with over the months for the second book in my series. The approach brings a different set of issues but I've seen it work for people and it's worth considering.
 

Woollybear

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Meh. Most 'successful queries' have love interests, theft (etc), swearing (as one means toward 'voice'), and so on. Put another way, sex and violence--drugs, swearing, etc.

Not ... concentrations of carbon in the atmosphere. Or the scale of time for Earth to form, stable ecosystems to develop, and the unprecedented rate of disaster that is currently unfolding.

I've watched the successful queries. They seem to often involve violence, or sex, or other basic human drives. Period. "All the feels" as some people say. AND this makes sense. For God's sake, look at the tropes. Death of parent. Death of child. Death, death, death. Not science.

I have no wish to derail the thread so will take whatever knocks come along after this post without responding unless specifically asked to do so--but a story in which a young protagonist experiences Earth History? People have no idea what to do with that. "But what does he "want?"' they say.

"A girl" seems to be an easily-accepted answer. Alternatively, overthrowing something. Violence. Knowledge? Not so much. 'Too passive.' The brain uses more energy than any other human organ--why in God's name do we not celebrate our brain power? We can solve climate change right now.

You've pointed at the successful queries, which for sure I've followed. I'll pick a random 'successful' query--without looking first, I'll say page 22, number 20 on that sticky. I bet it has at least one of the points I called out.

~~patty checks~~

Yep, sex (romance) and drugs (antidepressants) in that one.

Trust me, I am not surprised to be correct.

I am glad people succeed, but these factors seem to be commonalities in successful queries. Basic human drives. We 'understand' them. 'Truthiness' Colbert called it.

Show me a successful query that doesn't have at least one of them. Sex, violence, drugs, swearing.
 
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JJ Litke

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I know querying can be frustrating, but you still need to remember to RYFW. Insulting queries in the successful queries thread isn’t helping anyone. Those are people who are members here.
 

pingle

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This thread inspired me to finally pen a queryella (one paragraph, 120 words, what UK agents seem to ask for). Ouch But not as ouch as attempting to write a US style query for the last book, which was impossible. I literally never hit the sweet spot.
No sex, drugs, violence or swearing in this one, Patty. I'll get back to you in a few months and let you know if it inspires any interest ;)

I find them horribly hard. I actually prefer the UK style of less words as there's much less opportunity to be specific. It's the specifics that throw me, as once you add one concrete event, I find that others need to come along to make sense of the first, you can't start throwing names in there without explaining each person, actually anything specific seems to be met with a chorus of question marks if not properly explained. But you don't want to descend into yawnsome synopsis territory. It's such a balancing act and I've yet to make it across the tightrope.
 
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Putputt

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Meh. Most 'successful queries' have love interests, theft (etc), swearing (as one means toward 'voice'), and so on. Put another way, sex and violence--drugs, swearing, etc.

Not ... concentrations of carbon in the atmosphere. Or the scale of time for Earth to form, stable ecosystems to develop, and the unprecedented rate of disaster that is currently unfolding.

I've watched the successful queries. They seem to often involve violence, or sex, or other basic human drives. Period. "All the feels" as some people say. AND this makes sense. For God's sake, look at the tropes. Death of parent. Death of child. Death, death, death. Not science.

I have no wish to derail the thread so will take whatever knocks come along after this post without responding unless specifically asked to do so--but a story in which a young protagonist experiences Earth History? People have no idea what to do with that. "But what does he "want?"' they say.

"A girl" seems to be an easily-accepted answer. Alternatively, overthrowing something. Violence. Knowledge? Not so much. 'Too passive.' The brain uses more energy than any other human organ--why in God's name do we not celebrate our brain power? We can solve climate change right now.

You've pointed at the successful queries, which for sure I've followed. I'll pick a random 'successful' query--without looking first, I'll say page 22, number 20 on that sticky. I bet it has at least one of the points I called out.

~~patty checks~~

Yep, sex (romance) and drugs (antidepressants) in that one.

Trust me, I am not surprised to be correct.

I am glad people succeed, but these factors seem to be commonalities in successful queries. Basic human drives. We 'understand' them. 'Truthiness' Colbert called it.

Show me a successful query that doesn't have at least one of them. Sex, violence, drugs, swearing.

Okay, I’ll bite. I give you one of the most gorgeous queries I have ever come across. 11 requests out of 16. Pretty incredible stats for a YA centered around a mother-daughter relationship.

Of course, there is this one too. Btw, with both of these examples, the books not only snagged agents, but also sold to publishing houses. And neither one has naked mud wrestling, imagine that.

Off the top of my head, WONDER is a wildly successful book with none of those things. It sounds to me like you just need to read a bit more widely to find what you’re looking for, rather than assume that what every reader wants is some bizarre mud wrestling thing at Coachella. Also, it feels like you’re conflating conflict with violence. How is death violence? A death can be violent, but death in itself isn’t violence. Same with romance. There is plenty of romance in books without sex. Romance can exist without sex. That is an actual thing, you do realize that?