Underground Food Scene

TedTheewen

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Right now there's a bit of a food revolution going on where underground cooks and chefs are serving food out of their homes. It's illegal and sometimes sketchy but it's growing in popularity. Has anybody visited any of those places in their hometowns?

The way it works, the cook posts a lot of food porn on their Instagram and other social media. Then, if somebody wants some, they message them and the cook gives them the address where they can come to get it and how much money to bring. There have been some very cool success stories.

This is more popular in urban areas, especially Southern Los Angeles. From what I can tell, it's mainly been African-Americans, too. We've had a few of those pop up in Rockford and they go for a couple of months before getting shut down because nobody has a licence to do anything. But it's the only way many of these folks can make any money because of unemployment, lack of opportunities, and the sheer expense of opening up a regular restaurant.

The ones in Rockford were mainly older women and when you went there, it would a room full of crock pots and a few other warming trays strung on daisy-chained extension cords. The food was good, too. Soul food. Nothing fancy but simple food made well. The ones popping up around the country though are much more intricate and detailed.

In Los Angeles, there are a ton of taco places. Guys serving tacos out of the front yard or in somebody's back yard. There's a video I found where they say it has a speakeasy vibe. You gotta know somebody to find it and none of it is legal.

But it's how a lot of people are making money. They're broke or they can't find a job, but they love to cook and they're good at it, so they start selling food. In some cases, you just drive up and they come out with a bag full of food, take your money, and off you drive.

I've done some things similar with my ice cream. The problem is, among a long list of them, I'm in a very rural area so it's not like anybody is going to drive 20 minutes in the winter to get some ice cream. Sure, it's damned good ice cream, but it's not a priority. Lately I've been curious what I could do with my smoker and just how much success would I have if I tried to do something like that. I have a small smoker so it's not like I could put up big numbers or anything. But it's still something I'm very curious about.

Thrillist has a Youtube series called Instachef which is about the various underground food scenes in different cities. It's very interesting to check out.
 

Enlightened

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Risk vs. Reward....

Some risks....

1. You could get sued for things like wrongful death (e.g. allergies, choking, whatever). You could lose everything.
2. You can get neighbors who will call the police on you (or patrons) if you disturb the peace.
3. If you do not own the house/property, you can get evicted for breaking terms of the lease.
4. You can lose A LOT of money if you do not understand food costing, markup, and psychological pricing.
5. If you earn a felony for something major, if it matters to you, you forfeit your ability to ever hold a liquor license.

I would not do it, but that is me. It sounds just as risky as dealing drugs.
 

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That's a thing here, or at least it was a couple years ago. I've never gone to any, but it's a thing. There was an app called 'homemade' a while ago, where people would post pics, descriptions, and prices and you could just buy online and have stuff delivered or arrange pickup -- in categories, like whole meals, apps, desserts, snack stuff, etc.

There were/are apparently other apps too, but there's also the whole spontaneous dinner thing where you hear about it and people show up and pay and eat together.

There are risks, but it doesn't really seem on par with dealing drugs to me.
 

Kjbartolotta

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I went to one of these at a yoga studio a few years ago; all the hipster vegan kids seem to do this as a sideline & there are plenty of small businesses willing to set a table after hours or people with patios willing to host it. Lot more happening here around Koreantown, in a lot of cases these are well-qualified and popular people, though much of it is just peeps from local communities (Korean, Central American, Begali, etc...) chilling and eating together. And the hustle is real, but idk about comparing it to dealing drugs. I get the impression the city tolerates it as much as they are able, since any kind of crackdown would lead to an outcry from many corners.
 

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If the economy worsens, and the people vote to make this legal, I can see it happening in the U.S. It happened in Cuba during the embargo years. The Cuban government allowed people to legally open restaurants of the ground floors of their homes and live in the second floors. It helped a lot of people get by.

Still, too many risks. Not to add the potential of unruly (angry, intoxicated, other) patrons.
 

cornflake

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If the economy worsens, and the people vote to make this legal, I can see it happening in the U.S. It happened in Cuba during the embargo years. The Cuban government allowed people to legally open restaurants of the ground floors of their homes and live in the second floors. It helped a lot of people get by.

Still, too many risks. Not to add the potential of unruly (angry, intoxicated, other) patrons.

I don't know that people can vote to override food safety regulations. Laws might change to allow more selling food from home without a commercial license or kitchen, but every state has different exceptions and such.

Doesn't seem that risky to me still -- you deal with angry, intoxicated or whatever people who won't just leave the same way as always: call the cops. I can't really imagine there's a big problem of angry drunks who show up to some hipster's rooftop to eat homemade poke tho.
 

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I don't know that people can vote to override food safety regulations. Laws might change to allow more selling food from home without a commercial license or kitchen, but every state has different exceptions and such.

Doesn't seem that risky to me still -- you deal with angry, intoxicated or whatever people who won't just leave the same way as always: call the cops. I can't really imagine there's a big problem of angry drunks who show up to some hipster's rooftop to eat homemade poke tho.

People may have to vote to make it legal at different levels of government. I do not know how it would work. It might be at the local, state, or federal level. Food safety regulations are a different animal. I referred to the basic legality of running such a business in one's home. There are other issues at hand: food safety & sanitation; fire hazards; insurance; and so on.

If you invite someone in your home and they go from nice to evil, bad things can happen. If you want some examples, there's a YouTube channel (Active Self Protection) that analyzes all sorts of crime videos and how to help protect one's self if ever in one of these situations. You can get a sense at some of the things people do (intoxicated or not). Calling the cops may take a long time (especially if you live in a city where th force is stretched thin, there is a lot of sprawl, and you live in a more affluent area where the police hardly patrol).

Warning about Active Self Protection: Some of the videos show active shootings and some people die in them. The majority do not though.
 

TedTheewen

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It's funny that in one of the videos the guy says he used to sell weed and the profit margins for food were better. But he also said the cops were on him more, which I found funny.

I'm not sure I could actually do this. I mean, sure, maybe once in a while, perhaps some ice cream. But I just don't have the resources to do anything beyond that. I just think it's pretty cool how it's a legit movement right now based out of need. Growing up, we always knew where to go for tamales. And there was always tamales available around christmas time because that's how a lot of grandmothers made extra cash on the side that time of year. It was just something I grew up with. But now, it's different. I like how they phrased it as "speakeasies with food."
 

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Growing up, we always knew where to go for tamales. And there was always tamales available around christmas time because that's how a lot of grandmothers made extra cash on the side that time of year. It was just something I grew up with. But now, it's different. I like how they phrased it as "speakeasies with food."

The tamale thing still goes on. Friends of friends will refer you to the makers.
 

TedTheewen

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The tamale thing still goes on. Friends of friends will refer you to the makers.

I used to make my own tamales and I had to stop bringing them to work because people wouldn't let me eat. I'd have to tell a dozen people that no, they're not for sale, no I will not sell you my lunch. If I could get good at making them, I'm sure I could make a fortune. Nobody around here sells them but everybody wants them.
 

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I imagine the authorities don't mind if it's genuine a small-scale thing: provide a bag of food to go, and the customer drives up, pays and goes away (unless you are in a drug-ridden neighbourhood, in which case both the cops and drug dealers may be suspicious).

The problem would come if you're encouraging people to sit and eat, or come into the house. Parking and noise complaints lead to a visit from the Health Department, etc.
There's a difference between 'being neighbourly' and running a business. Running a business requires being business-like.

This may, however, account for the burgeoning popularity of food-trucks.
 

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I imagine the authorities don't mind if it's genuine a small-scale thing: provide a bag of food to go, and the customer drives up, pays and goes away (unless you are in a drug-ridden neighbourhood, in which case both the cops and drug dealers may be suspicious).

The problem would come if you're encouraging people to sit and eat, or come into the house. Parking and noise complaints lead to a visit from the Health Department, etc.
There's a difference between 'being neighbourly' and running a business. Running a business requires being business-like.

This may, however, account for the burgeoning popularity of food-trucks.

Id think it'd be the other way around. People have guests for dinner. That's so much more of a hard-to-cite grey area imo. I mean if you made a fancy dinner for your friends because you're the best cook and your friends all decided to give you $50 to help with the cost of the dinner, that's cool. If you've got people coming by and you're handing them bags of food in exchange for $$, seems more like a food business operating without a license.
 

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I've done some things similar with my ice cream. The problem is, among a long list of them, I'm in a very rural area so it's not like anybody is going to drive 20 minutes in the winter to get some ice cream. Sure, it's damned good ice cream, but it's not a priority. Lately I've been curious what I could do with my smoker and just how much success would I have if I tried to do something like that. I have a small smoker so it's not like I could put up big numbers or anything. But it's still something I'm very curious about.

What are the food truck regulations in your area? And, what are the chances of getting a second-hand ice-cream truck? Get a few batches of ice cream together, and drive it into town on a Saturday! You could do smoked-meat sandwiches on the side, perhaps? Or, in the winter, when ice-cream sales are down?
 

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Id think it'd be the other way around. People have guests for dinner. That's so much more of a hard-to-cite grey area imo. I mean if you made a fancy dinner for your friends because you're the best cook and your friends all decided to give you $50 to help with the cost of the dinner, that's cool. If you've got people coming by and you're handing them bags of food in exchange for $$, seems more like a food business operating without a license.

Agree with this.

There's the granny cart method. There are women who go to the construction sites and take orders from workers for the next day's lunch, limited selection, show up the following day with a full, (lined to keep the heat in) shopping cart packed with lunches. If anyone was looking it *could* ;) be someone's wife who volunteered to bring lunch for husband & coworkers, being reimbursed for her troubles.

I've also known people who have done this at their jobs when tight for cash, offering to make and bring lunch for whoever wants.
 

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Id think it'd be the other way around. People have guests for dinner. That's so much more of a hard-to-cite grey area imo. I mean if you made a fancy dinner for your friends because you're the best cook and your friends all decided to give you $50 to help with the cost of the dinner, that's cool. If you've got people coming by and you're handing them bags of food in exchange for $$, seems more like a food business operating without a license.
Put that way it sounds breathtakingly plausible, especially if it's a nice sit-down dinner, and not a bunch of people having a party in the backyard. Who would even think of calling the authorities on friends having a nice, quiet dinner?
 

TedTheewen

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Put that way it sounds breathtakingly plausible, especially if it's a nice sit-down dinner, and not a bunch of people having a party in the backyard. Who would even think of calling the authorities on friends having a nice, quiet dinner?

I'm not worried about the cops. And I'm not worried about people calling them on me. As long as I'm careful, things should be just fine. Once I get rolling, I'll talk to a couple of local bar owners and ask if they have a problem with me coming around on certain nights since most of them don't serve food and if they do, they stop at 8pm.

All in all, it could be a good venture for me. It'll make enough money to pay the cable and water bill, perhaps. In the end, that's really where it comes down to--paying bills and keeping stuff turned on.
 

TedTheewen

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So what happens if someone gets sick?

Then I'm sunk because word of mouth would kill me, like any other food business venture. The only problem is, how they handle it. If they go to somebody official, they'll make sure I never do business again. But the same rules that apply to the ice cream man in his van and to the little girl selling lemonade would apply to me. So, it's best to do everything right the first time to avoid letting that happen.
 

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It may never come to that: I'm sure Ted has excellent standards of hygiene and food safety, and besides, he's serving food to bars. The kind of bars that don't have food of their own. They have lots of experience with guys who've had many too many and are upchucking on the floor. Blame any incidents on the liquor.
 

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I say go for it. If you look around, you'll probably find some kind of system that people who do this are already plugged into, with hints and advice. Food hygiene is the same, whether it's being cooked at home or away - as long as you take that seriously, and take your business plan seriously, I think it's a good idea.