Alternative 'facts' in fiction

Ellis Clover · Feb 19, 2019

In early research for my next WIP, I’ve discovered that the real-life highway overpass where I’m planning to set the opening scene has safety barriers on both sides. Which is a problem, as I need to throw a character off it.

What are people’s thoughts on taking liberties with the particulars of real places? This overpass isn’t famous or anything – it’s just an ordinary pedestrian footbridge in the suburbs – but a) it’ll be identifiable to people who use it, and b) its name is both the book’s title and reflective of theme, so I can’t just swap it for another overpass with the features I need. There’s no book without this element.

And tangentially – in so far as writers can reference real brands/products as long as they don’t catastrophically malfunction or give your characters cancer (frex), is it even a good idea to have characters falling to their deaths off a real (modified by creative license) bridge? They do it in the movies, but is bookworld a different beast? (The more I read this back, the sillier it sounds. Surely you can’t ‘damage the reputation’ of a piece of public infrastructure…)

(One idea I’ve had is to transpose the bridge – and its name – to a fictional setting. But one of my key inspirations for this book is its real-world setting. It’d be an entirely different project – and not one I’d necessarily want to write – without all the implied social/cultural/historical stuff that comes with using the real place.)

Cobalt Jade · Feb 19, 2019

Hmm, were the barriers always there? Was there a time when they weren't? If so, could you set the story then?

As for throwing a person off... I can imagine the barriers might have to be replaced at some point... such as damage by earthquake, rusting, or even that pieces of them are falling off and hitting pedestrians below. The DOT crew would then close off the bridge to pedestrians until they could be replaced. But the characters find away around the barrier, and the incident occurs.

cornflake · Feb 19, 2019

Ellis Clover said:
In early research for my next WIP, I’ve discovered that the real-life highway overpass where I’m planning to set the opening scene has safety barriers on both sides. Which is a problem, as I need to throw a character off it.

What are people’s thoughts on taking liberties with the particulars of real places? This overpass isn’t famous or anything – it’s just an ordinary pedestrian footbridge in the suburbs – but a) it’ll be identifiable to people who use it, and b) its name is both the book’s title and reflective of theme, so I can’t just swap it for another overpass with the features I need. There’s no book without this element.

And tangentially – in so far as writers can reference real brands/products as long as they don’t catastrophically malfunction or give your characters cancer (frex), is it even a good idea to have characters falling to their deaths off a real (modified by creative license) bridge? They do it in the movies, but is bookworld a different beast? (The more I read this back, the sillier it sounds. Surely you can’t ‘damage the reputation’ of a piece of public infrastructure…)

(One idea I’ve had is to transpose the bridge – and its name – to a fictional setting. But one of my key inspirations for this book is its real-world setting. It’d be an entirely different project – and not one I’d necessarily want to write – without all the implied social/cultural/historical stuff that comes with using the real place.)

I think you're WAY overthinking this, and conflating what you know with what a reader knows, and what's important to you with what's important to the story.

You can set it wherever you want, and keep the cultural, historical, whatever, that inspired you -- and still call it Clovertown instead of Chicago or whatever, and have it be an overpass over Fourth St. instead of Main... you know what you're talking about. Especially given that it's not some major, well-known place, no one will know the difference but you, and you can keep what you want about it.

indianroads · Feb 19, 2019

My first 2 novels were somewhat fictional autobiographies of my early life. In those stories I moved things around, changed names of town, and altered the timeline. Unless you’re writing a history book you can do as you like. It’s your story after all.

mccardey · Feb 19, 2019

Ellis Clover said:
In early research for my next WIP, I’ve discovered that the real-life highway overpass where I’m planning to set the opening scene has safety barriers on both sides. Which is a problem, as I need to throw a character off it.

What are people’s thoughts on taking liberties with the particulars of real places? This overpass isn’t famous or anything – it’s just an ordinary pedestrian footbridge in the suburbs – but a) it’ll be identifiable to people who use it, and b) its name is both the book’s title and reflective of theme, so I can’t just swap it for another overpass with the features I need. There’s no book without this element.

And tangentially – in so far as writers can reference real brands/products as long as they don’t catastrophically malfunction or give your characters cancer (frex), is it even a good idea to have characters falling to their deaths off a real (modified by creative license) bridge? They do it in the movies, but is bookworld a different beast? (The more I read this back, the sillier it sounds. Surely you can’t ‘damage the reputation’ of a piece of public infrastructure…)

I changed the tiniest little detail of a road in a Sydney suburb in an earlier book, and it drove one reader apoplectic. He just COULD NOT DEAL WITH IT. I was married to him at the time, so it all got terribly awkward - but I do really think he was the only person who minded.

indianroads · Feb 19, 2019

My first 2 novels were somewhat fictional autobiographies of my early life. In those stories I moved things around, changed names of town, and altered the timeline. Unless you’re writing a history book you can do as you like. It’s your story after all.

frimble3 · Feb 20, 2019

If I may ask, how high are the barriers? Being thrown off (over the barrier) is different from falling or jumping. If someone hoists you up, all you need is for your center of balance to be over the barrier.
AFAIK, the only way you can 'defame' a bridge is by having it fail catastrophically (1940 Tacoma Narrows Bridge, aka Galloping Gertie), or, by making it a popular spot for suicides (don't want to put the idea in people's heads).

Harlequin · Feb 20, 2019

I'd agree with cornflake. It's no big deal

I based the town of "Marion" on an amalgamation of towns in the Midwest (Marion being the second most common city name in America.) It has features like Church Row, which is a real street in Iowa. The city is meant to feel familiar and believable to someone from that general region, without being somewhere exact. But it could have easily been based off Waterloo, and been called that--and I still would have included fictional details as needed.

Ellis Clover · Feb 20, 2019

Thanks so much, everyone!

cornflake said:
You can set it wherever you want, and keep the cultural, historical, whatever, that inspired you -- and still call it Clovertown instead of Chicago or whatever, and have it be an overpass over Fourth St. instead of Main... you know what you're talking about. Especially given that it's not some major, well-known place, no one will know the difference but you, and you can keep what you want about it.

Yes, but by 'implied social/cultural/historical stuff' I sort of mean the way you know things about a real place without having to be told them. I don't want to build a fictional setting that feels like (for example) New York City, I want it to *be* New York City - with all the context that comes with that.

- - - Updated - - -

Cobalt Jade said:
Hmm, were the barriers always there? Was there a time when they weren't? If so, could you set the story then?

As for throwing a person off... I can imagine the barriers might have to be replaced at some point... such as damage by earthquake, rusting, or even that pieces of them are falling off and hitting pedestrians below. The DOT crew would then close off the bridge to pedestrians until they could be replaced. But the characters find away around the barrier, and the incident occurs.

I'll definitely look into whether the barriers have always been up. Good ideas here - thank you!

Ellis Clover · Feb 20, 2019

mccardey said:
I changed the tiniest little detail of a road in a Sydney suburb in an earlier book, and it drove one reader apoplectic. He just COULD NOT DEAL WITH IT. I was married to him at the time, so it all got terribly awkward - but I do really think he was the only person who minded.

Oh dear...

Curlz · Feb 20, 2019

A lot of authors get things wrong, most of their readers won't notice though. When you think of it, the percentage of your readers who'll be actually familiar with the place will be really small. I find it funny when I read about places I know and the description is totally wrong. I mean, if you get the shape of the terrain wrong it means you didn't even open Google maps - and that was done by a writer who is definitely personally familiar with the area! I thought they may have gotten it wrong on purpose, not that it mattered so much. He needed flat land for the plot - there had to be visibility for the purpose of spotting your enemy from a distance, while the actual area is hilly and there would be no such visibility. And nobody batted an eyelid. I haven't seen it ever being commented on in a review or anything. I don't think readers care that much about such details and even if they do - so what?

Ellis Clover · Feb 20, 2019

frimble3 said:
If I may ask, how high are the barriers? Being thrown off (over the barrier) is different from falling or jumping. If someone hoists you up, all you need is for your center of balance to be over the barrier.
AFAIK, the only way you can 'defame' a bridge is by having it fail catastrophically (1940 Tacoma Narrows Bridge, aka Galloping Gertie), or, by making it a popular spot for suicides (don't want to put the idea in people's heads).

Thanks so much! The barrier is actually like a cage, so it goes all the way round. The engineers clearly weren't taking any chances...

Ellis Clover · Feb 20, 2019

Curlz said:
A lot of authors get things wrong, most of their readers won't notice though. When you think of it, the percentage of your readers who'll be actually familiar with the place will be really small. <snip> I don't think readers care that much about such details and even if they do - so what?

Thanks, Curlz! It's likely this is true - that few people will even know, and those that do won't care. I'm sure I am overthinking it!

cornflake · Feb 20, 2019

Ellis Clover said:
Thanks so much, everyone!

Yes, but by 'implied social/cultural/historical stuff' I sort of mean the way you know things about a real place without having to be told them. I don't want to build a fictional setting that feels like (for example) New York City, I want it to *be* New York City - with all the context that comes with that.

- - - Updated - - -

I'll definitely look into whether the barriers have always been up. Good ideas here - thank you!

It's not NY though; you said it was a suburb of someplace, so no one but you knows that stuff anyway.

Ellis Clover · Feb 20, 2019

cornflake said:
It's not NY though; you said it was a suburb of someplace, so no one but you knows that stuff anyway.

It's a Sydney suburb with plenty of cultural resonance to Australians.

Kat M · Feb 20, 2019

Do the rest of the book well, and readers won't care. Do the rest of the book poorly and readers will care.

For example, the film 10 Things I Hate About You is set in Seattle. Nearly all of it was shot 40 miles away. As a local, I can tell the difference. I know that the water outside the high school isn't Elliott Bay, it's Commencement Bay, because of the sediment patterns! But the story is believable and so I just make the adjustments in my mind and I'm good to go.

I read a book set in a location with which I was familiar and the author mixed up the name of a neighborhood with the name of a suburb. I was absolutely infuriated and couldn't get past it. But I finally realized that the rest of the story wasn't believable and so I couldn't suspend disbelief at all. (I hope I was vague enough to RYFW, if not I'm sorry and I won't do it again.)

So make your story compelling, believable, and your readers will forgive you. Well, at least this reader would forgive you if she was Australian.

Side note: if you're going to make the bridge collapse, just stick a giant octopus under it. That's what we did with Galloping Gertie.

MaeZe · Feb 20, 2019

mccardey said:
I changed the tiniest little detail of a road in a Sydney suburb in an earlier book, and it drove one reader apoplectic. He just COULD NOT DEAL WITH IT. I was married to him at the time, so it all got terribly awkward - but I do really think he was the only person who minded.

That's so telling. :tongue

My thought in this matter was, how can this unimportant detail matter? Is it part of the story that the road railing match the real world exactly? Because I'm not seeing it.

MaeZe · Feb 20, 2019

Curlz said:
A lot of authors get things wrong, most of their readers won't notice though....

I thought about this. What I notice would never be a small geographical detail that was wrong. If I saw that I wouldn't do more than blink.

What I do notice and get annoyed with but other readers don't, is something I know about professionally. People don't faint seeing an ugly monster and if they did, as soon as they laid flat they'd wake up. You can't knock someone out for the exact amount of time convenient for the story and even if you could, they wouldn't wake up and instantly be perfectly conscious without deficits. And so on and so on...

Those things are noticeable, but most readers would have no clue, and those that do would most likely just keep on reading and ignore it if the story were good.

BethS · Feb 21, 2019

Ellis Clover said:
It's a Sydney suburb with plenty of cultural resonance to Australians.

There's a simple solution, actually. Put an Author's Note before the beginning of the story mentioning that you're perfectly aware of the existing barrier on the bridge, but you're claiming poetic license in doing away with it for the purposes of the story. That way, those who know the bridge won't spend the story fuming over a blatant inaccuracy, or worse, stop reading it.

Devil Ledbetter · Feb 21, 2019

I wouldn't worry about it. Last year I read a blockbuster pop-culture novel that completely miss-described a delicate wisp of a song (which I know well enough to play on guitar) as having "reverberating power chords!" The author either never bothered to listen to the song, or confused it with something else. He was hilariously, stupidly, colossally wrong, yet this didn't stop his novel from becoming a bestseller and being made into a major motion picture.

Apparently we writers care a lot more about the details than consumers of entertainment do.

Updown · Feb 21, 2019

I always wonder this with small details in the stuff I write.

I think you can take artistic license with most things though (within reason) when it comes to novels. I've read many books that definitely got facts slightly wrong and yet were super successful.

Ellis Clover · Feb 24, 2019

Everyone's input is greatly appreciated. My takeaways are: write the story well, don't sweat the small stuff, and (if you're a natural small-stuff sweater like me) consider adding a disclaimer/author's note to keep nitpickers sweet. Thank you!

Helix · Feb 24, 2019

This won't add anything to the discussion, but that's rarely stopped me from commenting:

I noticed errors about snakes in two recent Australian books. Both nudged me out of the story for a bit, but I was pulled right back in, willing to forgive silly stuff for the sake of a good tale. I was less forgiving of an award-winning writer, praised for authenticity in story-telling, who cocked up on a point of geography.

Lone Wolf · Feb 25, 2019

Can you still have it set in your real suburb but create a fictional foot-bridge? Otherwise the suggestion of disclaimer sounds good to me.

Regarding the use of brand names in general. Others do it. It frustrates me though when they use a brand name and assume everyone knows what it is and means. Well, it frustrates me when I don't know what it is. I'm guessing they are brands well known in US but not here. For example, an author might write, "He wore Ray Bans," and figure they are giving more info than saying sunglasses, yet if I haven't heard of that brand I don't know if he's wearing sunglasses or shoes or some particular fetish wear.

Alternative 'facts' in fiction

watching The Office again

practical experience, FTW

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Wherever I go, there I am.

Heckuva good sport

Eat books, not brains!

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watching The Office again

cutsie-pie

watching The Office again

watching The Office again

practical experience, FTW

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Ooh, look! String!

Come on you stranger, you legend,

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