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Are tropes tools instead of something to avoid?

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Do you have some insight about when the term 'trope' itself became popular as a catch-all for repeating elements in fiction? I've got a feeling it's a very recent thing, but can't say for certain. Wasn't a trope originally a particular kind of figure of speech?

Yes; there were two broad categories of rhetorical figures; there were tropes and there were schemes. A scheme is a rhetorical figure that describes a pattern in language (say of repetition, or duplication or order) The root of Trope in Greek means "[a] turn," and it's usually treated in manuals of rhetoric as a rhetorical figure that, rather than just being a pattern (like say chiasmus) a trope is a figure that actually changes the meaning of the work/sentence. It's a slippery distinction though, because some figures described as schemes, like zeugma also change the meaning of the sentence or phrase.

On a personal level, I first noticed trope being used for a narrative pattern (some were clearly just motifs; others were chains of motifs) in 2005.

I presented a paper about what was a new use of trope at a conference in 2005. It was, back then, deeply weird to see a term used mostly by musicologists (trope is also a musical term particularly associated with chant, and via chant transferred to the early religious dramas performed at churches; the most famous of these is the quem quaeritis trope/early drama which takes a line from the Easter Mass (Whom do you seek?) when the Marys visit Christ's empty tomb, and discover via conversing with an angel that Christ has risen. The tropes took this fragment from the mass and turned it into a mini drama.

My hypothesis is that this use of trope in medieval music and drama (there are other tropes; quem quaeritis is just the most famous and numerous one) became extended to cover the current use,

I've (mostly) stopped grumbling about it. Language changes, I'd best change with it.
 

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Yes; there were two broad categories of rhetorical figures; there were tropes and there were schemes. A scheme is a rhetorical figure that describes a pattern in language (say of repetition, or duplication or order) The root of Trope in Greek means "[a] turn," and it's usually treated in manuals of rhetoric as a rhetorical figure that, rather than just being a pattern (like say chiasmus) a trope is a figure that actually changes the meaning of the work/sentence. It's a slippery distinction though, because some figures described as schemes, like zeugma also change the meaning of the sentence or phrase.

On a personal level, I first noticed trope being used for a narrative pattern (some were clearly just motifs; others were chains of motifs) in 2005.

I presented a paper about what was a new use of trope at a conference in 2005. It was, back then, deeply weird to see a term used mostly by musicologists (trope is also a musical term particularly associated with chant, and via chant transferred to the early religious dramas performed at churches; the most famous of these is the quem quaeritis trope/early drama which takes a line from the Easter Mass (Whom do you seek?) when the Marys visit Christ's empty tomb, and discover via conversing with an angel that Christ has risen. The tropes took this fragment from the mass and turned it into a mini drama.

My hypothesis is that this use of trope in medieval music and drama (there are other tropes; quem quaeritis is just the most famous and numerous one) became extended to cover the current use,

I've (mostly) stopped grumbling about it. Language changes, I'd best change with it.
Thanks for the insightful post! I was churlishly assuming TV Tropes was reponsible for the usage, but it seems it goes back a bit further. And I think you're right on the language change. 'Trope' isn't going away any time soon.
 

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...as a card-carrying English Ph.D. who has taught many literary analysis classes, and worked on this book ...

I'm always happy to learn new things. I'm drooling a bit over that book you linked to. Remind me some day to ask you about zeugma, because I keep finding conflicting definitions for it.
 

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I'm sorry to hear that. I have often had to correct basic misunderstandings about literary terms in teaching, so you're not alone. But I assure you, as a card-carrying English Ph.D. who has taught many literary analysis classes, and worked on this book among others, that's not the case. There are entire dissertations and monographs tracing single motifs through literature from different eras and languages.

My own dissertation was about a common motif in Medieval English, Irish and Welsh texts.

These discussions are always enlightening and interesting, if I can overcome my own shame for only being aware of the word motif with reference to a pattern or design of a visual sort. My toes curl with mortification when I learn I'm not as well read or educated as I thought :cry: Nice to have a word for this concept, though.

I just looked the uses of the word up, and discovered (as an example) that the name of the Rock Band The Grateful Dead was derived from a folk tale motif.
 

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Sealing a loaf of bread to feed a starving family is a well-worn cliche and I would be very wary of starting your book with one as people will assume that more cliches will follow. They won’t care about your reasoning because they take one look and think it’s the same old thing.

if he has to steal food really early in the morning and he has to go to the baker and it has to be bread, you at least need to find a fresh way of presenting that. Maybe he shoots the baker (bit melodramatic I know) or the baker causes the protagonist an injury. Something to show that it has more significance than literally just feeding a starving family. Basically, if you decide on something that might be a bit of a cliche, own it- show us how it can be made to feel different. People love a cliche or trope that gets turned on its head (although of course there are some cliche twists as well).
 

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Sealing a loaf of bread to feed a starving family is a well-worn cliche and I would be very wary of starting your book with one as people will assume that more cliches will follow. They won’t care about your reasoning because they take one look and think it’s the same old thing.

if he has to steal food really early in the morning and he has to go to the baker and it has to be bread, you at least need to find a fresh way of presenting that. Maybe he shoots the baker (bit melodramatic I know) or the baker causes the protagonist an injury. Something to show that it has more significance than literally just feeding a starving family. Basically, if you decide on something that might be a bit of a cliche, own it- show us how it can be made to feel different. People love a cliche or trope that gets turned on its head (although of course there are some cliche twists as well).
This cliche was (IMO) nicely turned on its head in The Hunger Games* when the baker's son stole the burned loaves to give to the destitute main character. It was good characterization for both of them: the girl too proud/noble to steal, the boy generous to the point of breaking a rule, but not so generous (or willing to rule-break) as to give her an unburned loaf.



*It's been a few years since I read that, I hope I've got this detail right.
 
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Just a note to remind people that this isn't a crit thread; it's a general discussion about tropes.
 

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Well, alright. Glad I thought up a great alternative though that is turned on its head.
 

Thomas Vail

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I don't think it's possible to avoid tropes.
That'd be like trying to bake a cake while avoiding ingredients. Not only is it impossible to do, but the very attempt would imply a certain lack of understanding about the craft of cooking itself.
 

Devil Ledbetter

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