Advertising. Do you?

Devil Ledbetter

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I just launched my first AMS (Amazon Marketing Services) keyword campaign. I did quite a bit of studying and invested in KDP Rocket (which I love/hate). My entire career has been in marketing but this feels so different.

Are there any other independent publishers here doing AMS or other advertising?
 

Devil Ledbetter

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I found it very daunting, too. I bought KDPR last weekend after watching the whole Dave Chessan video tutorial series. I still don't feel like I absorbed everything. I spent all day yesterday digging up and evaluating keywords. I only have 300 of them and it cost me a full day of writing to get that many. I'm sure KDPR is quicker and a lot more effective than guessing what keywords to use, but it's not that quick. At least not for me and my quirky pop-culture fiction.

Today I set up the campaign. I know I'll need to keep my eye on it and tweak it, but I'm excited to be doing something about sales.
 

Al X.

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I've been doing AMS for about three years, and Bookbub CPC ads for about a year in hopes of jumpstarting sales. I do not have a campaign to date that has anything close to a positive ROI. I think my current AMS campaigns are about to end. I probably won't start any more as they have been pretty worthless, and are only getting more worthless.
 

Marissa D

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Well, that's depressing. I'm sorry you didn't have better results.

Have you tried FB ads? I've not heard they're very useful either...but I'll never advertise on FB because of the outrageousness of the terms in their user agreement.
 

Al X.

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Well, that's depressing. I'm sorry you didn't have better results.

Have you tried FB ads? I've not heard they're very useful either...but I'll never advertise on FB because of the outrageousness of the terms in their user agreement.

Actually I have. As to whether they have generated any sales at all, there is no real way of telling.

One weird byproduct was that I got a flood of random author page likes by people I don't know, and that have no apparent interest in Western fiction. Most of these people are from India. Some of the profiles and timeline posts even suggested they may have even been bot generated accounts.
 

M. H. Lee

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AMS are my main form of advertising. They're responsible for a large part of my sales. I tried KDP Rocket at one point and decided the list of keywords it provided was just way too broad. I had I think Dan Brown listed as a keyword for my YA fantasy? Much better to just choose author names (for fiction) that are similar to what you write and then maybe use their also boughts to find more. That's a good starting point at least.
 

lorna_w

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I advertise, but not with AMS. I don't trust it. There is no way to know if what they are telling you about clicks and buys is true. I tried a few ads at the beginning of their targeting it to us, and they claimed I had sales, but I turned off the ads and there was no fall in sales. So color me suspicious. For years, people have been handwringing about "what if Amazon lowers our royalty?" With AMS, now they don't need to. In effect, they have lowered royalty by handing authors a $250 or $2500/month AMS charge. That good for stockholders (which they mention to stockholders in their reports). Not so good for me.

FB was caught exaggerating its ads' clicks and return a few years ago, though I know of too many people earning six figures who use them as their main advertising to entirely discount their efficacy. Still, the effort to get the image and wording just right to maximize returns will cost you plenty--so there had better be the potential for a big return before you do that. (The big return means you need more than a few books for sale other than the advertised one.)

I don't advertise often, and I stick with newsletter ads. That way, I don't turn on some automatic ad system that will drain my account without my stopping to analyze the expenditure every week. With one-shot ads, I can test and see which sites give me what ROI, and I know the break-even sites (which may win me fans for my back list, so is still worth trying now and again) and those who have given my a positive ROI. However, every time you advertise a book, the return on an ad at any given site will drop. (I know marketing gurus say that increased runs of an ad help, but I certainly haven't seen that to be true in the book biz, and as a customer, I've turned off newsletters for advertising the same books too often.) So I only run an ad for any first in series one week each year. That seems to be most effective and saves me a lot of time and hassle in focusing on promotions rather than on creating more product to sell. I suppose one could use AMS like that, running only a three-day ad twice a year, but you'd still have no idea if their reporting clicks/buys to you was fact or fantasy, and so you cannot compute an accurate ROI...and to me, that seems like poor business practice on my part. (If a rather clever one on their part. We're their customers for AMS, and they are making a good deal of money off us.)

The best "advertising" is always to write more books, in series, and buy good covers for them, indistinguishable from trade publishing covers. Periodically run an ad for the first in every series--never for stand-alone books. The more books you have, the more series, when you find a new fan through an ad, the more good that ad will do you as your new reader buys her way through your back list. Develop your own mailing list so that every new book gets you a guaranteed chunk of sales and increased free visibility with a high ranking for its first few weeks of release.

I didn't run ads until I had several books out, and I've made my living as a self-published novelist for several years now. Most people who do earn a living this way have 30+ books out. So that's where to focus the vast majority of my time, attention, and money, I've concluded. More books, not more ads.

Good luck to you.
 

Polenth

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I advertise, but not with AMS. I don't trust it. There is no way to know if what they are telling you about clicks and buys is true. I tried a few ads at the beginning of their targeting it to us, and they claimed I had sales, but I turned off the ads and there was no fall in sales. So color me suspicious.

I had very low sales when I tried AMS, so I could track the sales coming in. They were reported accurately. Where the stats got weird was the views, where sometimes a click and a sale could happen before the views registered.
 

Sydneyd

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I have a few AMS ads that I run continuously. They are for the firsts in completed series (those books are priced at .99 as well) and I have them set at the lowest possible $1 a day. Most days they earn out, but I can tell when something has happened on Amazon's end because for a few days they won't while all the update/glitch things get figured out.

I don't advertise in big numbers (Less than $100 a campaign) anywhere but I have used FB post boosts, FB ads, Bookbub ads, Google Ads and of course, AMS ads. I was pretty excited to see the new lock screen option, though I haven't heard people getting much use from them yet.
 

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I tried FB boost and Twitter for the very first time a few months ago. Little to no effect, but I placed them wrong--just didn't get the focus or pages right. I'll correct that mistake if I repeat the ads. My goof, so I can't blame the source. Everyone pretty much raves about BookBub, but I have to study the type of campaign that would work best for me. And some of those BookBub ads are just WOW$$$$$$.
 

rwm4768

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I have low-budget AMS ads going all the time on my books. Since I'm in KU, it's very difficult to tell if I'm getting a positive return on investment. I never know whether my KU pages are coming from the ads or whether someone found the book another way.
 

CathleenT

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I'll answer since I'm here. :)

Yes, AMS is the old name for Amazon Ads, and KU's a common shortening of Kindle Unlimited.

ETA: Amazon Ads seem to benefit those in KU most, since they have two ways of making money off them--sales and page reads. I'm not in KU, so I've been disinclined to use that platform. Like with Lorna above, it's easier for me to wrap my head around newsletter advertising, and I think my time would be better spent writing than monitoring ads.

If I do try pay-per-click, I'm considering BookBub, although not going in blindly. David Gaughran's coming out with a new book about them. For anyone considering tinkering with these sorts of slow-drip ads, I'd recommend checking out his site (I also subscribe to his newsletter): https://davidgaughran.com/blog/.
 
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Devil Ledbetter

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I just had my very first AMS sale! (With "only" 2174 impression to get there, lol.)

Seriously, though, I'm excited.

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Gillhoughly

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Facebook ads are useless, no return on the investment unless you're well known and have a solid fan base. I'd never see it, since I have ad-blocking software.

To date, I've never bought a book based on any ad. Recommendations from friends and bloggers, yes, but never an ad.

The other times I've bought are based on the Look Inside feature. I don't trust reviews and need to see for myself if the writer can put together an interesting sentence and engage my interest.

If you can offer review copies to bloggers who cover your genre, do so. You won't be out big bucks and will reach your target market. Set things up for free copies to specific people, then write and ask if they would like one. Not everyone will have time for it, but it's a start.

Agree with you on Dan Brown being inappropriate. It just proves the algorithms insanely wrong.

The one help on Facebook is to join writing groups for your genre. Most will forbid self advertising, so respect that. Their use is when they post about venues like bloggers who do reviews. It is great for contacts.

Of course you'll know not to get on a friend list of anyone just to pimp your book to them. I've had a few writers do that to me--one of them put a link to his book in the comments. I deleted, unfriended, and blocked that idiot so fast he felt the breeze.

There are groups that encourage writers to pimp within the group, but the fail for that one is it's an echo chamber, preaching to the choir and likely won't help.
 

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There are writer groups (general, non-genre) on FB just crawling with members--writers helping this, writers helping that, promoting this and promoting that. The problem is that everyone is allowed to promote or market in some fashion and this causes a huge traffic jam. Some of the posts have a hundred or more replies/comments. I tried to stay active in a few of them (There are about six big ones I know of) but couldn't keep up at all. As Gillhoughly mentioned, FB and Twitter booster ads work okay for the famous celeb authors, but I had no luck with it. I've been told that BookBub is the only ad campaign that will give you a decent return on your investment. Don't know how true that is since I haven't sprung for those big buck ads. If I purchases any ads, I'll make sure my targeting computer is on and I lay one down the pipe.
 

Devil Ledbetter

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I agree that social media is way too crowded and noisy to be a good place to advertise. The argument for AMS is that people visit Amazon with buying in mind, including buying books. On social media, we're just one more member adding to the din of buy my stuff. This is why I chose AMS.

There is a steep learning curve to AMS and I consider myself only at the beginning of that.

And I'm with Gillhoughly 100% on reading the Look Inside feature before deciding to make a purchase. I always do.
 

Devil Ledbetter

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Update on my AMS adventures.

The good: I've run 3 keyword campaigns and each one has performed better than the last in terms of impressions, clicks, and sales. Amazon lets you control your budget, pause ads that aren't performing, add new keywords and remove or change bids on individual keywords to keep the expenses under control. So for example, a keyword that netted me 33 clicks but no sales got its bid dropped. My best ad has had 14 sales, my best keyword has had 5 sales, and my total ad-induced sales for the month of March is currently at 20.

The bad: My ROI is terrible, especially looked at properly as expense vs. royalties. (The AMS dashboard shows expense vs. gross sales, nice for them, BS for us). There really is a learning curve to AMS, and I look at my expenditures there as the cost of learning. But this is definitely not sustainable long term unless I can improve my ROI. Luckily, I have a career that lets me afford to experiment with AMS.

The ugly: Lock screen ads. They just don't deliver. I've run two and over the course of 3 and 4 weeks respectively they've each sold 1 copy of my book. Everybody on the internet says they don't work, and everybody is right. They hardly even delivered clicks until I jacked my bid up to 75 cents. One of them was a $21 spend for a single $3.99 gross sale.
 

CathleenT

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Thanks for jumping in with that info. This is the sort of stuff I like to hear about.

I'm taking a class with Nicholas Erik on PPC ads that starts pretty soon. He warned us that we'd need about $250 as an advertising budget, so I'm going to be taking out real ads, which will, presumably, net me real results, good and bad. If people are interested, I can post what works for me and what doesn't here.
 

Devil Ledbetter

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Thanks for jumping in with that info. This is the sort of stuff I like to hear about.

I'm taking a class with Nicholas Erik on PPC ads that starts pretty soon. He warned us that we'd need about $250 as an advertising budget, so I'm going to be taking out real ads, which will, presumably, net me real results, good and bad. If people are interested, I can post what works for me and what doesn't here.
Yes, please do share your results with us. Good luck!
 

Laer Carroll

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I never advertise. Too much work for too little payback.

One related comment. After also trying Apple, B&N, Kobe and getting near zero sales I went Amazon KDP exclusively. And found to my surprise that I actually get about 10% more from Amz's subscription reads than book sales. That's DOUBLE income.

My seventh book, no different at bottom than the previous, skyrocketed (at least by my standards) for no reason I could discover. Now all the previous books are selling well. And when the sequel to 7 came out, 6 started selling well again after having bottomed out.

ADDED: If you do advertise, first go to this AW forum. Lots of wise advice.

https://absolutewrite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?48-Book-Promotion-Ideas-and-Advice
 
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