Using Pop Culture References in YA Novel

It's not the legal issues so much as the fact that in a year or so the book might appear painfully dated if you use real-life pop culture references. If you make up your own, that won't happen.

If you want your story not to be dated, then go for something made up. Mine have to be dated. They happen in a certain period (mid 1970s in one case, early 1800s in others), so the songs, dances, literature and cultural references should be the ones pertaining to the period and area. I am for using them and creating the athmosphere of the times you are writing about.

I wrote a YA novel manuscript about 5 years ago, which had lots of cultural references. I couldn't sell it, so I shelved it until a rewrite last year and had to take out those references, as they were already out of date (which was a pain in the rear end). And just as well, as I just got an offer for the book!

I learned my lesson and won't include specific cultural references in a YA novel again. You can get away with it to a certain extent with adult novels, but these references can be very fleeting if targeting YA readers.

screenscope said:

I wrote a YA novel manuscript about 5 years ago, which had lots of cultural references. I couldn't sell it, so I shelved it until a rewrite last year and had to take out those references, as they were already out of date (which was a pain in the rear end). And just as well, as I just got an offer for the book!

I learned my lesson and won't include specific cultural references in a YA novel again. You can get away with it to a certain extent with adult novels, but these references can be very fleeting if targeting YA readers.

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Why? Did you change the period when the story happened too? I see a need to change cultural references only in this case, otherwise, they are exactly showing the depicted period, for greater credibility. In my case, no matter when I wrote it/ when I published it (which happened at decades distance) the stories would still happen in mid 1970s in one case, in early 1800s for another, so... the details suggesting it, remained unchanged.

Elenitsa said:

Why? Did you change the period when the story happened too? I see a need to change cultural references only in this case, otherwise, they are exactly showing the depicted period, for greater credibility. In my case, no matter when I wrote it/ when I published it (which happened at decades distance) the stories would still happen in mid 1970s in one case, in early 1800s for another, so... the details suggesting it, remained unchanged.

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My novel is set 'now,' so the topical and cultural references in the original manuscript pretty much immediately anchored it in that time. If I had set it decades or centuries ago, or specifically in 2013, it wouldn't be a problem. But I want it to be as timeless as possible to keep it current.

While the general advice is “don’t” it’s a tad more complex then that. I think the real advice should be “don’t, unless it makes sense for your story.” As others have shown, there are certain cases where pop culture references can enhance a story rather than detract, and all of them share the same basic rule that they make sense in the context of their respective stories. As stated, the easiest stories to do this in are historical ones, as pop culture references specific to the time in which they take place can enhance and add to their historical realism.

However, that’s not the only way to make them work. While it might not be true YA, Ready Player One is a great example of pop culture references working in a non-historical story. While Ready Player One takes place in the near future and has a teen boy as it’s lead, it’s choked full of 80s pop culture references, many of which are spouted off by our young hero who normally would be of inappropriate age to do so. However, it gets away with it because the book instantly establishes that 80s pop culture is still highly relevant and popular in this future era due to the fact the man who shapes the culture of their version of the internet cherishes it. Thus, in that context the references make sense as the story goes out of its way to show us why old and seemingly dated pop culture touchstones are still popular with its teenage leads. Further, this setting element is not just tacked on for the sake of making references but is also critical to the plot, as many of the challenges and trials the characters face over the course of the story are tests of their 80s pop culture knowledge.

However, this kind of setup has pitfalls; Ready Player One works because it makes it a point to show that 80s pop culture is ingrained into the story’s setting and is not just a quirky interest of the protagonist, and does so in a way which makes that setting element not come off as tacked on just for the sake of making references. If Ready Player One had Wade being just as obsessed with 80s pop culture but didn’t also make it ingrained into his society then it would likely lose a lot more readers, as it makes little sense for a teen boy in the near future to have an avid interest in dated 80s pop culture. At least not without some kind of outside factor like Ready Player One had to make it make sense, anyway. This is why in my current WIP I have one of the POV characters who is a massive anime fan/otaku obsess over made-up series instead of referencing actual big names like Dragonball, Pokemon, or Salior Moon. This WIP takes place on an alternate future version of earth with superpowers and attacking monsters, so it would make little sense for her to obsess over anime that would be about as dated to her as black and white silent films are to us now, especially since there is no cultural reason that old anime would be relevant to her. So my advice is to avoid specific pop culture references, unless you have an in-universe reason for your teens to be referencing dated pop culture that makes sense and doesn't come off as tacked-on just for the sake of being able to make references.

It isn't just pop culture that dates a novel - I am just re-reading a Douglas Adams novel (Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency) and something that stuck out that certainly wouldn't have done on first reading was the protagonist going into a phone-box and using a pay-phone. An integral part of my childhood, but now it was a case of "oh, yeah, I remember them..."

If you'd written a novel around 1900 you'd never have believed that someone reading it ten years later would wonder why your characters were travelling on horse-drawn carriages.

If you wrote when Charles Lindbergh made his historic trans-atlantic flight in 1927, I'm sure that you wouldn't have thought you'd be able to buy a ticket and do the same just twelve years later

The world turns.

Steven Kings' novels still sell well despite containing tons of pop culture references. Of course, he's Steven King...

I think it's a case-by-case basis whether the reference "works" or not.

For example, I read a novel called The Love Song of Jonny Valentine that was published in 2013, just as Justin Beiber was at his height of fame and popularity. The book was about a similar pop star who is 11 and his travails as he matures on the road. It's told in first person and the narrator continually strives to be as good as MJ -- meaning Michael Jackson -- which was very, very, strange, considering Jackson's death and sexual abuse charges of young boys were NEVER mentioned. IMO the editor should have caught that, if the writer didn't.

Simon and the Homo Sapiens Agenda contained another problematic reference. In the book young 16 year old Simon is a big fan of the singer songwriter Elliott Smith... who died in 2003 from self-inflicted stab wounds. But in the book this is not mentioned at all, and any casual fan of Smith would know this, and also know the controversy (Smith may have been stabbed by his girlfriend at the time.) I found it very odd. I wonder if the book had been written before then, or if the author had not heard of the death. It's not a minor part of the book. The plot revolves around the narrator making mix tapes and the like of Smiths songs and sending them to his crush.

Like other replies, I don't use pop-culture references because I personally feel they date the book. Same reason I don't mention dates (unless this was actually intergral to the plot. As with every general rule, there's an exception).

On your question asking about legal advice -- I've done a quick google. Not sure if I'm allowed to post links here but this website seems good:https://www.standoutbooks.com/reference-pop-culture/

Take anything you find online with a grain of salt, however. Ultimately, if there's any legal issues I'm sure any publisher you have would point it out -- unless you're self-publishing.

I think my favoured approach would be making up the pop-culture references.

Legal issues come up if you quote anything directly from a book, script, song lyric, etc., I think. (Disclaimer: not a lawyer.) So you could have characters referring to plot points in their favorite Buffy episodes, but probably not quote the dialogue, or at least I’d seek legal advice about that. “Fair use” can get very confusing.

I think editors are more comfortable with references that they think have stood the test of time. I was allowed to mention Norman Bates, for instance, but Supernatural was nixed. (Of course, on another pass someone questioned whether teens would know who Norman Bates is...) I’ve read YA books with references to, say, the Kardashians, though. (Who may or may not stand the test of time. )

I love reading old books full of references that everyone knew at the time and that are totally obscure now, but I’m geeky that way. It’s history!

Stephen Spielberg has loads of pop culture references, and even product placement in all of his movies. I think at that point in time it draws us into a comfort zone--We identify with so much that is being put in front of us. Stephen has really gotten kudos for portraying real teenagers, using authentic young voices and tackling YA messages. I mean, who in the heck is going to make Reece's Pieces famous, or coin phrases like "ET phone home Spielberg kind of reminds me of a 'pop' Walt Disney. But we can all see how dated his stuff is, and the newest viewing generations no doubt will raise eyebrows over lots of the material. I guess, use it in moderation and only when it really applies and helps the plot.

You can reference, but for the most part you could run into issues if you directly quote something.

However I saw a (top) agent once say this is something that you can discuss with your agent. So if they're sporadic and not overly used (like a novel like Ready Player One), I'd just get them down and then you can discuss that with a later date. Of course if there are enormous amounts of them then maybe re-consider as that could put off an agent. It's about balance.

But I do agree with the posters saying about the risk of your novel feeling dated. Some readers also say a pop culture reference can pull them out of a story (this happens to me a lot), so there's a lot to think about. And of course how important it is to your overall book. Is it necessary?

I want to add that while some popular culture references become obscure quickly, others do remain well-known for decades. For instance, if you have a character say, "Live long and prosper", many will realize it is from Star Trek, originally said by Leonard Nimoy, as Spock, in 1965 or so. Likewise, "Make my day," said by Clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry Callahan in 1971, is still widely recognizable. You just have to have a sense, as much as possible, for what will be short-lived and what will be durable and linger in people's minds.

BTW, quoting one line from a TV show or movie should not cause copyright issues.

"Stephen Spielberg has loads of pop culture references, and even product placement in all of his movies."

These product placements are paid advertisements for the products. They are a revenue stream for the making of the movies done with the permission of the companies and not violations of trademark or copyright.

Yes to the statement that a line or two falls within fair use https://www.copyright.gov/fair-use/more-info.html and that you have to be careful not to date your book.

Yes. Recent, YA novels like "The Hate U Give" and "Tiffany Sly Lives Here Now" referenced the Harry Potter series, so I imagine it'd be okay and not outdated for you to reference it, either. The series is still very popular, where I live; people are still reading the series and listening to the audiobooks. So much so, that there are waitlists for the ebooks and audiobooks, most of the time.