pov conundrum

amateurhour · Jan 23, 2019

I am writing in first person present and I got to the point where I realized time skips and descriptions are an issue. I don't want the reader to have no idea of the setting (made up world.) I also don't want to throw in irrelevant conversations/interactions, just so the reader knows what is going on.
I tried what is probably my misunderstanding of limited 3rd telling the story, but the protagonist's voice as the narrator is abrasive. The protagonist is basically a schizoid, so while his brief internal thoughts aren't obnoxious, a long description in his voice is just too negative. For this reason I can't exclude his voice as his actions and spoken words aren't reflective of his thoughts. It is also why I changed from first/past as someone wouldn't tell a story including their delusional thoughts.

Can I write in 3rd, without going in anyone else's head (barring if I switch view points), and not use the protagonists voice? That should allow me to time skip cleaner, give outside information, etc.

I've looked at several books I've read in the genre and honestly it isn't helping me.
I'm writing for fun, but I would like the book to actually be somewhat legible.

Edit: Thanks for the replies. I did get to test a different 3rd out, using an independent voice following the protagonist. In reading it next to the 3rd using the protagonists voice, I do like that style better, as long as I cut down on the excessive negative and condescending descriptions.
Planning to move forward with that pov until I get to a point where there is enough material to read the two and compare.

starrystorm · Jan 23, 2019

There are different types of third person besides limited/close. What would probably be best for you is either:

1) Distant third person- Distant third person is like omniscient except it only follows one character and the narrator can't see inside other character's heads.

2) Omniscient - The narrator is able to see into everyone's thoughts at all times. This is an out-dated method though.

I think your story would work best with distant third. But I haven't read your story, so you know what's best.

The Second Moon · Jan 23, 2019

I've seen that done in some popular books. One I can't remember the name of was in 1st person but switched to 3rd (not in anyone particular's head) when the narrator went crazy. The book also would do that in other sections and would say something like this "And from the balcony there was a pair of glinting binoculars. If only Christina (that's the protagonist) had looked up."

In Ransom Rigg's book Hollow City, it switch's from the 1st person narrator, Jacob's POV, to 3rd for a paragraph (once again, not in anyone's head in particular). It describes what Jacob and his friends looked like getting on the train and how strange they seemed.

So it can be done. But I would put a scene break before the 3rd person and after. Like this:

1st person

***

3rd person

***

1st person

I hope this helped!

amateurhour · Jan 23, 2019

starrystorm said:
There are different types of third person besides limited/close. What would probably be best for you is either:

1) Distant third person- Distant third person is like omniscient except it only follows one character and the narrator can't see inside other character's heads.

2) Omniscient - The narrator is able to see into everyone's thoughts at all times. This is an out-dated method though.

I think your story would work best with distant third. But I haven't read your story, so you know what's best.

Thank, distant third makes sense. I was looking at all these descriptions and videos of 3rd person and none mentioned that lol.

amateurhour · Jan 23, 2019

The Second Moon said:
I've seen that done in some popular books. One I can't remember the name of was in 1st person but switched to 3rd (not in anyone particular's head) when the narrator went crazy. The book also would do that in other sections and would say something like this "And from the balcony there was a pair of glinting binoculars. If only Christina (that's the protagonist) had looked up."

In Ransom Rigg's book Hollow City, it switch's from the 1st person narrator, Jacob's POV, to 3rd for a paragraph (once again, not in anyone's head in particular). It describes what Jacob and his friends looked like getting on the train and how strange they seemed.

So it can be done. But I would put a scene break before the 3rd person and after. Like this:

1st person

***

3rd person

***

1st person

I hope this helped!

Thanks, it did. Probably going to play around with that and distant third, which seems easier. Lucky me a pipe exploded in basement so i've just been sort of starring at the wall until my buddy gets off of work to help me out. Then the real fun will start!

LucidCrux · Jan 23, 2019

You can do whatever you want to do so long as it allows you to competently tell the story without confusing readers. You can even mix POVs, you just have to figure out how. POVs themselves also have a wide range of expression and room for the author to figure out what works for them and each particular story. It's just easier to break things down into rough categories for discussion. The key thing is to make sure the reader understands what's happening and that it doesn't pull readers out of the story.

Bufty · Jan 24, 2019

amateurhour said:
I am writing in first person present and I got to the point where I realized time skips and descriptions are an issue. I don't want the reader to have no idea of the setting (made up world.) I also don't want to throw in irrelevant conversations/interactions, just so the reader knows what is going on.
I tried what is probably my misunderstanding of limited 3rd telling the story, but the protagonist's voice as the narrator is abrasive. The protagonist is basically a schizoid, so while his brief internal thoughts aren't obnoxious, a long description in his voice is just too negative. For this reason I can't exclude his voice as his actions and spoken words aren't reflective of his thoughts. It is also why I changed from first/past as someone wouldn't tell a story including their delusional thoughts.

Can I write in 3rd, without going in anyone else's head (barring if I switch view points), and not use the protagonists voice? That should allow me to time skip cleaner, give outside information, etc.

I've looked at several books I've read in the genre and honestly it isn't helping me.
I'm writing for fun, but I would like the book to actually be somewhat legible.

In Third Person Limited POV the POV character is not the narrator. You, the author are the narrator. Any descriptions could reflect what the POV character sees but do not have to be in his voice.

Bufty · Jan 24, 2019

To me, Distant Third person Limited POV is simply a weak Third person Limited POV and doesn't really have anything to do with how many characters are 'followed' - whatever is meant by 'followed'. I assume it to mean 'chosen as POV characters'.

In Omniscient POV the only POV is that of the omniscient or all-knowing narrator even though the focus can hone in and out on characters as needed. It's certainly not the easiest of POV's to sustain effectively throughout a novel but it's hardly out-of-date. :Hug2:

starrystorm said:
There are different types of third person besides limited/close. What would probably be best for you is either:

1) Distant third person- Distant third person is like omniscient except it only follows one character and the narrator can't see inside other character's heads.

2) Omniscient - The narrator is able to see into everyone's thoughts at all times. This is an out-dated method though.

I think your story would work best with distant third. But I haven't read your story, so you know what's best.

lizmonster · Jan 24, 2019

Have you considered a second POV?

BethS · Jan 24, 2019

starrystorm said:
2) Omniscient - The narrator is able to see into everyone's thoughts at all times. This is an out-dated method though.

Actually, it's not. Novels are still written in omniscient today. The style of omniscient may have changed (you rarely find one any more that addresses the reader directly, unless it's done as parody or for comedic effect), but the omniscient POV is still very much a valid and useful technique.

What you referred to as distant third sounds like the objective POV, which acts like a true camera, recording events but never venturing inside a character's head or offering commentary of its own.

BethS · Jan 24, 2019

amateurhour said:
Can I write in 3rd, without going in anyone else's head (barring if I switch view points), and not use the protagonists voice? That should allow me to time skip cleaner, give outside information, etc.

You can certainly use the omniscient POV. But had you considered telling the story of this character entirely from another character's (or more than one character) POV? That's also a time-honored technique.

amateurhour · Jan 24, 2019

BethS said:
You can certainly use the omniscient POV. But had you considered telling the story of this character entirely from another character's (or more than one character) POV? That's also a time-honored technique.

I run a lot, and have for years, so I usually think of stories and what not (can only think about winning the lotto so many times lol.) This was the first time I was ever able to write a decent amount (25k words I think) without getting agitated that my writing is awful. A large part of that is the pov of going through a character allowed me to have a reason to leave out descriptions, and it forced me on a path that the story has to follow. Of course that path also bought me to the point where I realized i'm going to have to write too many minor events and the story will take an eternity to progress. One of the few fantasy books i've dropped as I struggled trying to complete it of the course of a year was The Name of the Wind. I'm guessing it is because I really didn't care about the hundreds of pages of the protagonist living on the streets as a kid, and by the time it finally was getting somewhat interesting I was already disinterested. That is sort of how I feel my story is progressing.

amateurhour · Jan 24, 2019

BethS said:
Actually, it's not. Novels are still written in omniscient today. The style of omniscient may have changed (you rarely find one any more that addresses the reader directly, unless it's done as parody or for comedic effect), but the omniscient POV is still very much a valid and useful technique.

What you referred to as distant third sounds like the objective POV, which acts like a true camera, recording events but never venturing inside a character's head or offering commentary of its own.

This is sort of how i've been massively confusing myself. I was looking at bunch of stuff i've read and saying to myself these viewpoints don't match these descriptions. I'm not an english professor or a professional writer so when I read a definition I sort of assume that si the way it has to be. That being said though, I don't want to write something that in a pov that is blatantly incorrect.

Bufty · Jan 24, 2019

A POV is never blatantly incorrect if it achieves what the writer wants it to achieve. Choosing the best POV to get a story across to a reader can only be decided by the writer. It's not easy but trial and error usually works.

Descriptions that neither enhance the reader's experience nor add anything story-wise should not be included, but appropriate description can add to the reader's enjoyment and understanding of a character/scene.

I'm not sure why you feel you have to write 'too many' minor events.

For any story to hold a reader's attention, the main character has to be interesting and have a goal of some sort, and everything has to be connected to achieving that goal and/or overcoming periodic barriers to achieving the desired goal. Minor events that contribute nothing story-wise can be omitted.

It's not necessary to tell the reader everything simply because you know it. As the writer, you have to know everything in order to be able to write the story but a reader doesn't need to know everything in order to follow the unfolding story, if you follow me. Don't be deluded into thinking you must give the reader pages and pages of background and set-up. Focus on the first event that sets the character on a path from which he cannot turn back.

Not sure if that helps or not. Good luck. :Hug2:

amateurhour said:
I run a lot, and have for years, so I usually think of stories and what not (can only think about winning the lotto so many times lol.) This was the first time I was ever able to write a decent amount (25k words I think) without getting agitated that my writing is awful. A large part of that is the pov of going through a character allowed me to have a reason to leave out descriptions, and it forced me on a path that the story has to follow. Of course that path also bought me to the point where I realized i'm going to have to write too many minor events and the story will take an eternity to progress. One of the few fantasy books i've dropped as I struggled trying to complete it of the course of a year was The Name of the Wind. I'm guessing it is because I really didn't care about the hundreds of pages of the protagonist living on the streets as a kid, and by the time it finally was getting somewhat interesting I was already disinterested. That is sort of how I feel my story is progressing.

PyriteFool · Jan 24, 2019

amateurhour said:
This is sort of how i've been massively confusing myself. I was looking at bunch of stuff i've read and saying to myself these viewpoints don't match these descriptions. I'm not an english professor or a professional writer so when I read a definition I sort of assume that si the way it has to be. That being said though, I don't want to write something that in a pov that is blatantly incorrect.

I hope I can reassure you somewhat that you can’t really get your POV “wrong.” POV is a means to an end, namely creating a story that the reader can follow. Consistency in POV helps keep the reader grounded. So, for example, if you are writing in limited third focusing on Alice, the reader will assume all information given is something Alice knows/notices. If the author then switches to Bob’s POV without warning and starts thinking about info Alice can’t possibly know, the reader can get confused and the story is harder to follow. That’s the problem, not that fact that the author has violated the sacred covenant of third person limited POV.

I think so long as you are clear and consistent, the rest is just style differences. I actually think narration in limited third should reflect the voice of the character being followed. I think it helps distinguish characters, especially in a book that switches between multiple perspectives. Plus the things they notice (and thus what the author highlights) can also reveal a lot about them. But saying the author’s voice should predominate, isn’t wrong, per se, it’s just a different style, imho. As you read and write more, it will get much easier to figure out POV. Especially if you view it as a tool to use, rather than something you can screw up.

starrystorm · Jan 24, 2019

BethS said:
Actually, it's not. Novels are still written in omniscient today. The style of omniscient may have changed (you rarely find one any more that addresses the reader directly, unless it's done as parody or for comedic effect), but the omniscient POV is still very much a valid and useful technique.

What you referred to as distant third sounds like the objective POV, which acts like a true camera, recording events but never venturing inside a character's head or offering commentary of its own.

I don't really write third person. I was just going off an internet article. Should have done more research.

amateurhour · Jan 24, 2019

Bufty said:
A POV is never blatantly incorrect if it achieves what the writer wants it to achieve. Choosing the best POV to get a story across to a reader can only be decided by the writer. It's not easy but trial and error usually works.

Descriptions that neither enhance the reader's experience nor add anything story-wise should not be included, but appropriate description can add to the reader's enjoyment and understanding of a character/scene.

I'm not sure why you feel you have to write 'too many' minor events.

For any story to hold a reader's attention, the main character has to be interesting and have a goal of some sort, and everything has to be connected to achieving that goal and/or overcoming periodic barriers to achieving the desired goal. Minor events that contribute nothing story-wise can be omitted.

It's not necessary to tell the reader everything simply because you know it. As the writer, you have to know everything in order to be able to write the story but a reader doesn't need to know everything in order to follow the unfolding story, if you follow me. Don't be deluded into thinking you must give the reader pages and pages of background and set-up. Focus on the first event that sets the character on a path from which he cannot turn back.

Not sure if that helps or not. Good luck.

It does thank you. It isn't descriptions as much as nonsense such as bumping into a person in the city the mc arrived at to get an idea of his dress vs the locals, going into a tavern and drinking with someone to get an idea of the city and society, having the mc exit certain places since I can't constantly teleport him, certain interactions that happen because it would be weird if they didn't, etc. I do get what you are getting at as I do overthink certain stuff (ex: how can someone carry a 200lb barrel up a ladder, is their a pulley system, why am I thinking about this lol.)

I should be able to start experimenting with some of the suggestions here tonight and see the flow.

amateurhour · Jan 24, 2019

PyriteFool said:
I hope I can reassure you somewhat that you can’t really get your POV “wrong.” POV is a means to an end, namely creating a story that the reader can follow. Consistency in POV helps keep the reader grounded. So, for example, if you are writing in limited third focusing on Alice, the reader will assume all information given is something Alice knows/notices. If the author then switches to Bob’s POV without warning and starts thinking about info Alice can’t possibly know, the reader can get confused and the story is harder to follow. That’s the problem, not that fact that the author has violated the sacred covenant of third person limited POV.

I think so long as you are clear and consistent, the rest is just style differences. I actually think narration in limited third should reflect the voice of the character being followed. I think it helps distinguish characters, especially in a book that switches between multiple perspectives. Plus the things they notice (and thus what the author highlights) can also reveal a lot about them. But saying the author’s voice should predominate, isn’t wrong, per se, it’s just a different style, imho. As you read and write more, it will get much easier to figure out POV. Especially if you view it as a tool to use, rather than something you can screw up.

Yep, I definitely want it to be consistent, which is why i'm concerned about about the designations.

Elle. · Jan 24, 2019

amateurhour said:
It does thank you. It isn't descriptions as much as nonsense such as bumping into a person in the city the mc arrived at to get an idea of his dress vs the locals, going into a tavern and drinking with someone to get an idea of the city and society, having the mc exit certain places since I can't constantly teleport him, certain interactions that happen because it would be weird if they didn't, etc. I do get what you are getting at as I do overthink certain stuff (ex: how can someone carry a 200lb barrel up a ladder, is their a pulley system, why am I thinking about this lol.)

I should be able to start experimenting with some of the suggestions here tonight and see the flow.

Those nonsense you mentioned are venturing into info-dump and over complicating yourself. For example bumping into someone purely to describe dress sense is a waste on scene for something that can be taken care of in a paragraph.

For example: "Anya walked left the docks and the reek of gutted fish behind her as she headed towards the centre of town. Eyes fixed on the cobbled path she still couldn't avoid the frown of elegant passerby wrapped in colourful silk and expensive furs. She quickened the pace, tugging the hem of her burlap tunic that barely covered her legs"

Only took a couple of sentences and from that we know: Anya is an outsider, likely just arrived on a ship, the place where she is seems to be a wealthy town, she feels out of place and uncomfortable, she is dressed poorly. Hopefully the reader will wonder why she's there, and where she's heading.

This is a fiction not real life so you do not have to describe all the interactions that would normally take place.

I hope this helps.

amateurhour · Jan 24, 2019

Elle. said:
Those nonsense you mentioned are venturing into info-dump and over complicating yourself. For example bumping into someone purely to describe dress sense is a waste on scene for something that can be taken care of in a paragraph.

For example: "Anya walked left the docks and the reek of gutted fish behind her as she headed towards the centre of town. Eyes fixed on the cobbled path she still couldn't avoid the frown of elegant passerby wrapped in colourful silk and expensive furs. She quickened the pace, tugging the hem of her burlap tunic that barely covered her legs"

Only took a couple of sentences and from that we know: Anya is an outsider, likely just arrived on a ship, the place where she is seems to be a wealthy town, she feels out of place and uncomfortable, she is dressed poorly. Hopefully the reader will wonder why she's there, and where she's heading.

This is a fiction not real life so you do not have to describe all the interactions that would normally take place.

I hope this helps.

That is why I want to change the pov. In first person "Anya" wouldn't think in her head any of that. She would see the frowns and wonder why they are frowning at her, assume they are because of her outfit, or just not care. The frown would most likely be something the reader gets, but "Anya" wouldn't. I didn't spend a paragraph on just the bumping in. It was basically done as part of a sequence of events after a time skip that described where the character is, what he had been doing, etc. Why I'm debating a different pov.

Elle. · Jan 25, 2019

amateurhour said:
That is why I want to change the pov. In first person "Anya" wouldn't think in her head any of that. She would see the frowns and wonder why they are frowning at her, assume they are because of her outfit, or just not care. The frown would most likely be something the reader gets, but "Anya" wouldn't. I didn't spend a paragraph on just the bumping in. It was basically done as part of a sequence of events after a time skip that described where the character is, what he had been doing, etc. Why I'm debating a different pov.

If you look at the post I quoted my response was in connection of using nonsense purely for describing purpose and I was pointing out that it was not a productive way to tell a story. The example I used had nothing to do about POV but showing that clothes can be described without having to use what you referred to as nonsense.

Regarding the POV. sorry but I am not following you. Of course you can have the same paragraph in the first POV instead of third. If Anya gets or doesn't get the frown is part of her character not which POV you use.

POV is about voice and how to best convey a story not about what a character think or not think.

"I left the docks and the reek of gutted fish behind me as I headed towards the centre of town. Eyes fixed on the cobbled path, but still I couldn't avoid the frown of elegant passerby wrapped in colourful silk and expensive furs. I quickened the pace, tugging the hem of my burlap tunic, barely covering my legs."

Tugging at the tunic can seen as conscious or an unconscious response depending on how you set up your character. Anya could be tugging on it subconsciously without understanding it's a direct response to the frown. If you want to approach it differently you can say:

"I left the docks and the reek of gutted fish behind me as I headed towards the centre of town. Eyes fixed on the cobbled path, but still I couldn't avoid the frown of elegant passerby wrapped in colourful silk and expensive furs. As I quickened the pace, a gust of wind finds its way under my burlap tunic, barely covering my legs and I tug at it." Again you have a double meaning is she really just tugging because she is cold or because she's uncomfortable about the stare.

Another option is Anya thinking they are frowning because of her short tunic when actually it's because she has horns.

BethS · Jan 25, 2019

amateurhour said:
This is sort of how i've been massively confusing myself. I was looking at bunch of stuff i've read and saying to myself these viewpoints don't match these descriptions.

Not sure what you mean by that. What descriptions?

POV is not so much a matter of being correct or incorrect as it is being effective or ineffective. The most basic thing about it you need to know is that it's a lens through which the story is shown (told) to the reader.

You mentioned The Name of the Wind. Did you notice that he used two different styles of POV? The central story that forms the bulk of the novel is first-person POV. But the framing parts (the action that takes place in the inn and its environs, starting at the beginning of the book) are written in the objective POV. No characters' thoughts are ever revealed; we have to intuit them through action and dialogue.

It's good that you've started paying attention to POV in the books you read. How it's used (whether it works or not) can teach you a lot.

Roxxsmom · Jan 25, 2019

amateurhour said:
I am writing in first person present and I got to the point where I realized time skips and descriptions are an issue. I don't want the reader to have no idea of the setting (made up world.) I also don't want to throw in irrelevant conversations/interactions, just so the reader knows what is going on.
I tried what is probably my misunderstanding of limited 3rd telling the story, but the protagonist's voice as the narrator is abrasive. The protagonist is basically a schizoid, so while his brief internal thoughts aren't obnoxious, a long description in his voice is just too negative. For this reason I can't exclude his voice as his actions and spoken words aren't reflective of his thoughts. It is also why I changed from first/past as someone wouldn't tell a story including their delusional thoughts.

Can I write in 3rd, without going in anyone else's head (barring if I switch view points), and not use the protagonists voice? That should allow me to time skip cleaner, give outside information, etc.

I've looked at several books I've read in the genre and honestly it isn't helping me.
I'm writing for fun, but I would like the book to actually be somewhat legible.

Edit: Thanks for the replies. I did get to test a different 3rd out, using an independent voice following the protagonist. In reading it next to the 3rd using the protagonists voice, I do like that style better, as long as I cut down on the excessive negative and condescending descriptions.
Planning to move forward with that pov until I get to a point where there is enough material to read the two and compare.

Lots of questions here.

To sum everything up, yes it is possible to switch between narrative viewpoints within the same novel, though it's generally recommended that you carefully cue or frame the breaks so they don't leave the reader confused and wondering through whose eyes they are seeing events. Some novels move between first-person and third (could be omniscient, objective or limited third) and first. I've even run across novels that move between present tense and past tense in different sections (or between different characters).

An abrasive protagonist can be one reason for choosing a more distant narrative approach (or for having more than one viewpoint character), but there are writers who can do an excellent job of keeping the reader invested in someone they should (or possibly even do) hate.

If you are staying in the same person's pov, you'd probably need a good reason to move between limited third and first for that person. But if your concern is that your narrator's voice is abrasive if you stay in it for too long, then limited third could present issues too.

It's also possible to vary narrative distance in any pov. First-person present is generally going to be very immediate and in the narrator's head space as they are in the story, while a more retrospective first person (such as what one might see in a memoir-type narrative) could be more distant and reflective, emphasizing the perspective of the narrator as they are now instad of as they were at the time of the story. Some narratives start out in a more distant sort of viewpoint (whether first or limited third), but move into something more intimate or immediate during the "meaty" parts of the story, but they can pull out to a more external view for transitions.

I know it's frustrating, but there's no absolute right or wrong here, as long as you keep your reader engaged and caring what happens. The best advice I can give is to read books that do the kinds of things you want to try in yours and to experiment with writing the same story segment using different techniques and determining what works best. Seeking feedback from critting partners you trust can be helpful here too, though be aware that no approach will be loved by everyone.

Beth mentioned Rothfuss's TNOTW. This wasn't my favorite novel. I think Kvothe was a rather abrasive character (conceited, self absorbed, arrogant, but incredibly naive and obtuse, even by teen standards) but the author did (in spite of his, imo, excessive love of adverbs) a good job of interweaving two different narrative styles and with making Kvothe interesting enough that the book became a bestseller.

amateurhour · Jan 25, 2019

Elle. said:
If you look at the post I quoted my response was in connection of using nonsense purely for describing purpose and I was pointing out that it was not a productive way to tell a story. The example I used had nothing to do about POV but showing that clothes can be described without having to use what you referred to as nonsense.

Regarding the POV. sorry but I am not following you. Of course you can have the same paragraph in the first POV instead of third. If Anya gets or doesn't get the frown is part of her character not which POV you use.

POV is about voice and how to best convey a story not about what a character think or not think.

"I left the docks and the reek of gutted fish behind me as I headed towards the centre of town. Eyes fixed on the cobbled path, but still I couldn't avoid the frown of elegant passerby wrapped in colourful silk and expensive furs. I quickened the pace, tugging the hem of my burlap tunic, barely covering my legs."

Tugging at the tunic can seen as conscious or an unconscious response depending on how you set up your character. Anya could be tugging on it subconsciously without understanding it's a direct response to the frown. If you want to approach it differently you can say:

"I left the docks and the reek of gutted fish behind me as I headed towards the centre of town. Eyes fixed on the cobbled path, but still I couldn't avoid the frown of elegant passerby wrapped in colourful silk and expensive furs. As I quickened the pace, a gust of wind finds its way under my burlap tunic, barely covering my legs and I tug at it." Again you have a double meaning is she really just tugging because she is cold or because she's uncomfortable about the stare.

Another option is Anya thinking they are frowning because of her short tunic when actually it's because she has horns.

No need to apologize. I was writing in first present, which isn't exactly liked from my understanding. For that reason, and maintaining consistency I can't have the character mentioning certain details since it is not his personality, it is something he would think, or that his thoughts are incorrect and the reader can infer this only from other's reactions. Anya thinking they are frowning because she has horns more so plays into what I'm getting at.
The bumping into thing is just a small event, the issue is even with the elements causing Anya to tug on her tunic (which I enjoyed your examples btw and it was helpful) to constantly write minor details and self reflections after time skips isn't flowing well. For a change of scenery and outfit, not the end of the world, but for a week where the charter found questionable illegal work and lodging it is a difficult skip. The character isn't going to be able to fit the description of the work he has been doing, the setting, and what else has happened in a few lines. It is forcing me to write little introductory scenes where he can drop details about that stuff into the scene, and then I can continue. I just don't like how the story is flowing.

amateurhour · Jan 25, 2019

Beths & Roxxsmom, the change in pov in TNOTW, allowed for background. I really didn't want the story to be in in 1st person past, with the usual story telling set up as it is just a perspective that bothers me personally. I dislike when I know that at some point the protagonist is going to be an inkeeper, lose whatever his lovers name was, have an apprentice, be famous, etc. Obviously that is just a personal view that isn't shared by others.

Basically i'm continuing with my bastardized version of 3rd limited using the narrator's voice, and maintaining consistency. When I get to the same point as my 1st present version, i'll either continue or switch back. If I don't like the progression in either pov, than either the story is flawed, it just flows wrong, or my writing is even worse than I'd imagined lol.

pov conundrum

amateurhour

starrystorm

The Second Moon

amateurhour

amateurhour

LucidCrux

Write like there's no tommorowe.

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen

BethS

BethS

amateurhour

amateurhour

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

PyriteFool

starrystorm

amateurhour

amateurhour

Elle.

amateurhour

Elle.

BethS

Roxxsmom

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amateurhour

amateurhour