Blockbusters with underlying symbolism

Heh, few movies balance symbolism, camp, and ultraviolence in the way Robocop does. But then, Verhoven is a rare combination of artiste and schlockmeister.

Umm...Star Wars TFA? Black Panther? Day After Tomorrow?

I think I might be misunderstanding the question. And by blockbuster, are you referring only to SF Action movies? Because there are a lot more blockbusters than just that genre.

Another Verhoeven film with a big subtext and symbolism is Starship Troopers.

MindfulInquirer said:

I wonder just how much the ultraviolence would've influenced the film not being there. Plays a major role.

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Well, I know that the two reasons Verhoven agreed to the project were the prospect of ultraviolence and the potential for parody and allegory.

Elle. said:

Another Verhoeven film with a big subtext and symbolism is Starship Troopers.

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Often overlooked, though idk how...

Trying hard to think of non-Verhoeven examples, though I do love the man and his art. Abrams and Nolan are hardly my favs, though I think their symbolism and nuance game is pretty solid. Philip Kaufman had some pretty big hits under his belt, but definitely balanced the artsy with the fartsy. I'm sure there's plenty more.

Sunshine had symbolism up the Khyber, through it's a bit older, and probably not a blockbuster (nor action, till its inadvisable third act). Ditto anything else Lem or PKD or a conscious imitation. Blade Runner 2049? A Scanner Darkly? Minority Report?

Albedo said:

Sunshine had symbolism up the Khyber, through it's a bit older, and probably not a blockbuster (nor action, till its inadvisable third act).

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I love that movie and officially consider it part of the Hellraiser franchise.

I thought they accidentally spliced in the last reel from Event Horizon.

Heh, nowhere did it occur to me more than in Avatar (Huge Movie) that symbolism, theme and message meant so much. Corporate greed running all over the universe and then picking the wrong planet to fugg with. Understanding cultural diversity and respecting it--a lesson we still have to learn.

Pleasantville (1998)
Labyrinth (1986)
The Matrix (1999)

All these movies seem to carry a lot of symbolism, especially the first two, which are downright Jungian. I don't know if they all count as blockbusters though, but they were commercially successful. The Matrix was definitely an action blockbuster.

Albedo said:

I thought they accidentally spliced in the last reel from Event Horizon.

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The director has been emphatic that the apparent supernatural elements were a metaphor and there's no magic or spooky stuff happening in the movie. I'm not one to argue with another's interpretation, especially that of the creator, but he's totally wrong. Like I said, I like every part of that movie, but the third half is rather silly.

MindfulInquirer said:

Yes. Apparently his wife thought he should give the screenplay another go because of the metaphorical elements there, he'd just skimmed through the first pages and dismissed the idea pretty quick but then looked again and finally agreed to do it.
It's interesting how those two elements connect: ultraviolence and metaphor. The film needed the shock value of the ultraviolence as aesthetics and drama, to make the symbols shine out more brightly. And the director wanted tons more gore but had to tone down the original scenes substantially due to the rating they were aiming for.

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I can't remember the last time I watched anything but the director's cut. Seeing that guy get hit by the car and explode really appeals to the high-brow intellectual in me.

Did anyone mention Snowpiercer yet? Not a blockbuster, but a rather large and profitable production. And so much symbolism, so much violence.

Night_Writer said:

All these movies seem to carry a lot of symbolism, especially the first two, which are downright Jungian. I don't know if they all count as blockbusters though, but they were commercially successful. The Matrix was definitely an action blockbuster.

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I was kind of meh on the Matrix when I saw it (having discovered gnosticism and anime the year before that), but the more I think about it, the more I've grown to appreciate it. What if we're living in the Matrix? ZOMG!

In a way, I think we are living in the Matrix. And there's a whole lot of people who don't want to be unplugged.

2016 onwards have been proof we're living in a simulation, IMO, one set fully to Stupid.

I like Sunshine as well. It's got some beautifully moody moments. Like when they find the crew of the lost ship all together, and one of the characters says he thinks they 'had an epiphany'. Praise the Sun! The whole Event Horizon bit is goofy, but.

Re: the director, that's a bit like the maker of Donnie Darko insisting his movie is all about time travel, to the point of putting out a ponderous director's cut to ram his interpretation home. And still being wrong.

Heh, gnosticism in movies is certainly a discussion that goes beyond the Matrix. Remember Truman Show? And one of my favorite movies of all times, which holds up much better than I expected it would on rewatch, Dark City.

Albedo said:

2016 onwards have been proof we're living in a simulation, IMO, one set fully to Stupid.

I like Sunshine as well. It's got some beautifully moody moments. Like when they find the crew of the lost ship all together, and one of the characters says he thinks they 'had an epiphany'. Praise the Sun! The whole Event Horizon bit is goofy, but.

Re: the director, that's a bit like the maker of Donnie Darko insisting his movie is all about time travel, to the point of putting out a ponderous director's cut to ram his interpretation home. And still being wrong.

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I seem to be the only person who thinks that the reality we're living in is reality. More depressing that way. I'm not going to get into my rant about scientifically accurate movie SF, because it always goes wrong, but suffice it to say I think it's a mixed bag. So Sunshine gets eternal points from me for using sorta accurate real science instead of ridiculous nonsense delivered in a serious tone movie science.

Shin Godzilla (2016).

triceretops said:

Heh, nowhere did it occur to me more than in Avatar (Huge Movie) that symbolism, theme and message meant so much. Corporate greed running all over the universe and then picking the wrong planet to fugg with. Understanding cultural diversity and respecting it--a lesson we still have to learn.

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Don't forget the white saviorism!

Night_Writer said:

The Matrix (1999)

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The Matrix is a pretty good metaphor for being trans as well.

kuwisdelu said:

Shin Godzilla (2016).



Don't forget the white saviorism!



The Matrix is a pretty good metaphor for being trans as well.

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The red pill is estrogen.

Godzilla (Gojira) is the first movie I think of, when someone says "blockbuster with symbolism." Even though I know it wasn't that huge when it was initially released, it's the kind of movie that was intended to be a huge blockbuster, yet still carry a deeper meaning. The Day After Tomorrow fits that bill pretty well, too, far moreso than most "disaster" blockbusters (there's little depth in Earthquake, for instance).

A lot of other films are guilty of trying way too hard, imo. There's an awful lot of movies with an awful lot of symbolism, but imo the symbolism is rarely well-served by the movie. It's a special thing to get it right. Doesn't mean that such movies aren't any good, or that the symbolism is lost on people, just that maybe there's a less-than-perfect meshing. Starship Troopers is, I think, a good example of this. The movie is bloody awful, imo. I get the symbolism, I know where it all is, but it doesn't make the movie any better for me. Really, it makes it worse.

That all said, it's an interesting topic, because I'm sure there will be a great variety of opinions.