gunshot death - how quickly?

So have him die as you need. Death can be anywhere from instant to never. Do you need anatomical details for your story?

Jeff

19th century rifles will usually be firing a soft lead projectile. That means when it hits the target it will flatten and expand (Civil War-era Minié balls would have entry wounds the size of a thumb, but exit wounds bigger than the fist). Cavitation damage from such a round is going to be SEVERE. It may also tumble after entering the body, inflicting even more damage. Anything passing through the chest cavity is going to cause very severe damage and bleeding because it's not going to leave a small, neat hole.

I would also ask what type of rifle? Are we talking a late-19th century lever-action or breech-loading cartridge rifle, or is this a muzzleloader? The former are more likely to have a fixed powder charge which will limit their power, and many like the Henry and Winchester were smaller-caliber guns. Muzzleloaders like the Hawken rifle could take a considerable powder charge (my dad's could take I believe up to 200 grain). The type is also going to affect the caliber; Kentucky rifles were generally small-caliber, while the Hawken fired up to a .54 caliber ball or conical. This will also have a significant impact on how much damage the gun could do (Kentucky rifles fell out of use in the West because they lacked power, but a Hawken could drop a Grizzly).

If you want to see it happen and you can stand watching this sad video of Neda from Iran again, here is a person hit in the chest who bled out and died in less than a minute. It looks like she turns her eyes to look at the person with the video, but actually that is a reaction from her brain dying.

This is the CNN video so it's not as close up as the actual one. But once you see it, you cannot unsee it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICJ8-XKHm_0

You're absolutely right; I don't need to click that link, I can still see it even though it's been years.

Anyway, I hope you're not expecting your character to give any sort of speech or even talk to anyone around him before he goes. He's likely not going to remain conscious for long, either due to the shock or blood loss. And if he DOES remain conscious, there's a good chance he'll have a lot of blood getting into the lungs and he'll be choking/drowning.

Either way, he won't be talking after he's hit.

Just throwing this out there but I can't recall ever questioning how long it took someone to die (other than excessively long) from a gunshot. I have been very annoyed on countless occasions by misrepresenting existing firearms.

If you really want to be technical about it a bolt action rifle is likely firing high velocity. As wyatt said lever actions would be more large pistol caliber oriented. I have no idea if the first bolt gun fired spitzer rounds (pointy bullets you didn't want in a lever tube as the point was near the other cartridges primer) or when the first smokeless powder cartridge was commonly used (higher velocity), but these are stuff to consider.
The angle also doesn't make sense.

I still wouldn't personally question any of that.

amateurhour said:

Just throwing this out there but I can't recall ever questioning how long it took someone to die (other than excessively long) from a gunshot. I have been very annoyed on countless occasions by misrepresenting existing firearms.

If you really want to be technical about it a bolt action rifle is likely firing high velocity. As wyatt said lever actions would be more large pistol caliber oriented. I have no idea if the first bolt gun fired spitzer rounds (pointy bullets you didn't want in a lever tube as the point was near the other cartridges primer) or when the first smokeless powder cartridge was commonly used (higher velocity), but these are stuff to consider.
The angle also doesn't make sense.

I still wouldn't personally question any of that.

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I've seen the details on the gun in question. It's not one I'm particularly familiar with but it IS a fairly large caliber round (right around .44cal).

D. E. Wyatt said:

I've seen the details on the gun in question. It's not one I'm particularly familiar with but it IS a fairly large caliber round (right around .44cal).

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If it is 44-40 it could be Model 1878 Hotchkiss (first thing that it shows on Wikipedia for bolt guns in that caliber, which fits the scenario.) Learned something knew. I'm not familiar with anything pre ww2 obviously today you can get a bolt gun in whatever you want, if their is demand for it.

I got the impression the op was making up a rifle.

Interesting gun (more so the cartridge.) Anyways if your not going to give an exact weapon, a real stickler would find a hard time complaining.

Back to the main point, I'd never think to myself why did the guy die in a minute.

CWatts said:

It's a real rifle. Model 1866 Chassepot, 11 mm.

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You picked a semi-oddball gun, but it will suit your needs fine. Depending on what your needs are, which so far we know as a shot from above that kills in about a minute. If that's the only requirements for your scene, write it. It will work fine.

Jeff

You say less than a minute; could it be instantaneous? If it goes through the heart, it'd be pretty damn swift. Wouldn't matter a heck of a lot what gun you're using. (A head shot would be swift, too, of course, but you said no head shot.)

We were trained to make head shots in close combat. Because, a) the bad guys may be wearing body armor, and b) it's the only way to ensure that they are incapacitated instantaneously. Shoot someone in the mid upper torso and they will most likely die, but you have to give them time.

Al X. said:

We were trained to make head shots in close combat. Because, a) the bad guys may be wearing body armor, and b) it's the only way to ensure that they are incapacitated instantaneously. Shoot someone in the mid upper torso and they will most likely die, but you have to give them time.

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That's surprising to hear. Most training I ever hear of is to aim center of mass. Head shots are too easy to miss because the head is smaller and can move much more quickly than the torso. Better to hit them SOMEWHERE than miss altogether.

Actually, Al X. is correct, although it tends to be emphasized in pistol training; and, it's not something that is well publicized. The goal is to stop the threat, the quickest way being to interrupt the central nervous system (CNS). If two successful hits to the center of mass (C/M) fail to stop the threat, assume body armor and place the third shot to the brain/stem/spinal cord. It's not that difficult to do, especially with routine training.

D. E. Wyatt said:

That's surprising to hear. Most training I ever hear of is to aim center of mass. Head shots are too easy to miss because the head is smaller and can move much more quickly than the torso. Better to hit them SOMEWHERE than miss altogether.

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Depends. In a building breach/hostage rescue scenario where there are multiple armed combatants, a non lethal hit is as good as a miss. The point isn't to kill for killing's sake, but to incapacitate, and render the situation neutral. As ironmikezero has said, that is not publicized training. Police do not train for that. But in most home defense situations, you are correct in that a hit is better than no hit. Generally speaking.

By the way, most of those of us that have done this for a living do not enjoy killing. The people that do are psychopaths, and a psychopath has no position on, in or around my team. Period. I like to think that we were like doctors, making life and death decisions in the interest of preserving more life. I won't lie, it's a tough business. You do things that you live with the rest of your life. You learn to deal with them. Some guys do, some guys don't. The real challenge is to come out of that and stay human.

Brandon Lee was shot near the navel with a .44 magnum revolver. He fell sitting with his back against a set wall, staring off into space. The projectile burst the aorta where it forks off into the legs. It was like puncturing a water balloon. Yet, the entry wound was merely a scratch. His belly began to swell with blood. His vascular system was devastated, and he began bleeding from every orifice. They got him into the ER withing thirty minutes, stabilized him best they could and rushed him into surgery. He died over twelve hours after being shot without ever waking up.