airline check

jclarkdawe

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You decide to go for an airplane trip. You show up with your passport. It's a good passport, printed and processed through the Netherlands and Thailand same as the rest of US passports. Problem is it was never issued by the Department of State and therefore is not of the Department of State's database.

So when you show up at the airport, and present your passport, is it just run against the "Do Not Fly" list, or is it run against the full Department of State's database?

Jim Clark-Dawe
 

Al X.

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You decide to go for an airplane trip. You show up with your passport. It's a good passport, printed and processed through the Netherlands and Thailand same as the rest of US passports. Problem is it was never issued by the Department of State and therefore is not of the Department of State's database.

So when you show up at the airport, and present your passport, is it just run against the "Do Not Fly" list, or is it run against the full Department of State's database?

Jim Clark-Dawe

I'm a little bit confused. What country issued the passport? Are you saying it passed through Netherlands and Thailand for stamping and processing? Which department of state are you talking about? US?

If it is a US passport it was issued by the US department of state. As to how through the check is, it is fairly intensive in the US and EU. The 'do not fly list' is just a check box on the US department of state's database. And they track stuff you did a long time ago and probably forgot about. They only ask you what countries you've visited as a formality. I know, because they've reminded me of countries I forgot I entered.
 

Chris P

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I travel from the US to international sites once every couple months. I have no idea at what point, if any, you are checked against the Do Not Fly list, except perhaps when you buy the ticket. I have had to provide my number before the ticket was issued in two cases I recall, so probably then, but once I was in the airline's system I didn't have to do it again. When leaving the US, I show my passport when I check in with the airline. They use it as my photo ID, and the only thing they might do otherwise is confirm that I have a valid visa for the country I'm going to, or that I have a full blank page for the stamps. I show it again at security, and I might have to show it again at the gate, again to confirm visa and blank page, but all they do at any of these is look at it, or put it under UV to see the hologram. Same for boarding; all I have to do is show it, which is not always. US citizens leaving the US do not have to complete departure cards or go through customs when they leave. The passport is not scanned at any time before leaving. If I understand your scenario correctly, it would be easy-peasey for someone with a fake US passport to leave the US. I suppose someone could book the ticket with a non-flagged passport number then fly on another passport. Hopefully there are more safeguards than I know about.

Entering the destination country, however, is another matter. Even in the poorest African countries I visit for my job, the entry is pretty sophisticated. First, you fill out an entry card, then wait in line. At the kiosk, your passport is either swiped along the long edge or the photo page is placed on a glass scanner. Here is where a fake passport would be detected. If it's real, the normal procedure is to take your picture with a webcam camera, and scan your fingerprints on a scanner with a screen about the size of a playing card. Sometimes they want all four fingers, sometimes just the thumb. Such places are noisy, and especially in non-English countries the agent just holds up a thumb to indicate to scan your thumb, or all four fingers for that. Sometimes they ask how many days you are in country, why, and where you are staying. Once at the window, the process takes less than a minute. I haven't had this happen or seen it happen, but if the passport isn't recognized by the system I suspect the person would be detained until either the embassy cleared it up, or the person is refused entry and placed on a plane back out of the country. Of course, for story purposes these officials can be believably bribed.

ETA: if your character is sent back to the US after his passport is denied, he's in deep when he arrives and tries to re-enter the US. Chances are he will have problems gettkng into any country at all.

Probably more info than you wanted, but that's been my experiences.
 
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jclarkdawe

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Al X -- US passports (were)(are) made by a company in the Netherlands, then sent to Thailand for some more processing. The passports are then sent to the US Department of State for issuance. I believe personal information is added by the Department of State, but the basic form is completed in Thailand. This security flaw is well documented and it is rumored that some have gone missing.

The personal information added by the Department of State is encrypted, and supposedly can't be copied. Of course, that statement has been made about every document governments have created.

When you return from overseas, to the best of my knowledge, your passport is checked against the Department of State's database, so a forged passport will show up because the number was never issued or was issued to someone else. However, I'm looking at using a passport for a picture ID for domestic travel.

Chris -- Your experience matches mine. I think the "Do not fly" checklist is done when you buy the ticket, but I wanted to double check. As I'm looking at domestic flights, customs and immigration are not a concern.

Thanks to both of you.

Jim Clark-Dawe
 

cornflake

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I think they're printed in India, but regardless, how're you faking the chip?
 

Al X.

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That is astounding. I did not know that.

I will say this. I just recently (last month) had my passport renewed via expedited fee for early January work travel. I received it within a week. How it made the trip from the US, to India, to the Netherlands, to Thailand and back to the Netherlands or the US in a few days is beyond me. I do know that I completed the renewal form online, so I suspect they already had my data keyed in to the system when I completed the fillable PDF.
 
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Chris P

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If you're using a fake passport as ID for domestic travel I don't see how they would get you, any more than if you were using a fake driver's license. They never run the DL#, only put it under UV to see the holograms. No need to fake the passport chip because it's never scanned for domestic travel.

Al X--most likely State has a bunch of blank ones ready to go and they just enter your data and photo on the first page. They don't start the whole process over when you apply. It's only shady print-on-demand publishers who produce the whole thing based on a single order :tongue
 

jclarkdawe

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I should have mentioned that the passport in question would be dated 2011/2012. There have been some minor changes since then.

The reason I'm using a passport instead of a driver's license is because if the Feds follow this trail, as the character is an escaped Federal inmate, that the Feds will be thinking the person is planning on flying overseas. The Feds can then put out an alert for the name on the passport through various sources. It's questionable how well one can travel internationally on a forged passport, but there is some level of belief that it can be done.

I realize that a lot of the process of making passports is classified. Government sources are not always the most reliable (nor should they be) about the process. I'm actually fine with a confusing back trail of where passports come from. But like all documents, if you're willing to pay enough, or are good enough, you can get forgeries. And there were rumors of some boxes of passports getting lost in transit awhile back.

As far as the chip is concerned, I'm thinking scanning isn't likely, but chips are actually easy to forge. Although encrypted, chips usually have known information on them. Establish a decent side database of chip information, and it soon becomes easy to reverse engineer the sucker. In reality, typeface is a better means for detecting high-end forgeries. (Chips are great for detecting whether something has been tampered with.) It's incredibly difficult to exactly copy a typeface. That's why typewriters can be identified individually.

Jim Clark-Dawe
 

ironmikezero

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The name on the bogus passport would be a heretofore unknown alias, right?

As you know, an escaped federal prisoner would be identified/named in an arrest warrant charging a violation of 18USC751a that would be readily accessible in NCIC. A BOLO linked to the warrant would also be in NLETS. US Dept. of State has NCIC/NLETS access, as does almost every US LE agency, to include Homeland Security at all ports of entry; crosschecking passports with NCIC is routine/automatic.

Tracking a passport (legit or otherwise) isn't that difficult; every time it is used, it tends to be recorded. Detection of a forged document need not mean an immediate arrest; investigative strategies may include ongoing surveillance, etc. depending upon known or suspected circumstances. What does the story need?

Notwithstanding the passport issue, your escapee needs a solid, well-backed cover that can withstand rather heavy scrutiny, and avoid any sort of physical ID process (fingerprints, DNA, etc.). This requires resources, and a significant level of sophistication/expertise; it's not impossible, but challenging, nonetheless.
 

jclarkdawe

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The name on the bogus passport would be a heretofore unknown alias, right?

Absolutely unknown and never before used. This was part of the character's escape hatch. Unfortunately, when the she was arrested, she was given a high enough bail and the inability to access her resources.

As you know, an escaped federal prisoner would be identified/named in an arrest warrant charging a violation of 18USC751a that would be readily accessible in NCIC. A BOLO linked to the warrant would also be in NLETS. US Dept. of State has NCIC/NLETS access, as does almost every US LE agency, to include Homeland Security at all ports of entry; crosschecking passports with NCIC is routine/automatic.

Character assumes all means of travel would react to a BOLO, although maybe not in a real time manner. But the way her escape is set up, the US Marshals won't be aware she escaped for about 72 hours. A faked court order, with a clerk at the court who was bribed, and until her release paperwork hits the US Attorney involved, and figures out what happened, no one will know she escaped.

Tracking a passport (legit or otherwise) isn't that difficult; every time it is used, it tends to be recorded. Detection of a forged document need not mean an immediate arrest; investigative strategies may include ongoing surveillance, etc. depending upon known or suspected circumstances. What does the story need?

Tracking these days is extremely comprehensive. Between photo recognition and cameras scattered throughout the landscape, even without documents there's a lot of tracking that can be done if the government wants to spend the resources. Character is extremely paranoid and extremely knowledgeable about photo recognition. Documents like licenses and passports just make it easier.

Notwithstanding the passport issue, your escapee needs a solid, well-backed cover that can withstand rather heavy scrutiny, and avoid any sort of physical ID process (fingerprints, DNA, etc.). This requires resources, and a significant level of sophistication/expertise; it's not impossible, but challenging, nonetheless.

Incredibly challenging or a crap load of dumb luck. She's well aware of the difficulties.

Glad you checked in.

Jim Clark-Dawe
 

ULTRAGOTHA

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In 2011/2012 my previous passport was still valid. I didn't get a chip until 2014. If that will help.
 

WeaselFire

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For domestic travel, the name is checked against a do not fly list, not the passport. Have a friend who gets stopped regularly because he has a name on the list, even though he doesn't use a passport. It's at the ticket counter, after he passes TSA. They have to do a special lookup to find he is not the one on the list, he went though a Homeland Security process to get his name cleared. They match his address and social to clear him.

Keep in mind that ID is not the only indicator, TSA is looking for clues in the mannerisms and other factors. Have him in a business suit carrying a briefcase/carry-on piece of luggage and give him a destination like San Antonio, Boston, Santa Clara or Charlotte and they won't look twice at a middle-aged, clean shaven male. Or make him a 75-year-old gray-haired woman heading to Florida in January. :)

Jeff