help with revision

gumandsoda · Dec 30, 2018

So the good news is that my novel ALMOST got picked up by a publisher. The bad news is the "almost" part. However, they gave me substantial feedback and said they would like to see it again after I revise. They did tell me that one of the main things that needs work is that the central conflict needs to be clearer and established earlier on. I kind of see this as a minor tweak: I added some text throughout that I think does this . . . but they also recommended that I read an entire book about how to write a novel, and I feel like they want more than just a minor tweak. Therefore, I have NO idea how to do this. I mean, first of all, yes, I am totally going to read the book they recommended (I ordered it immediately and it arrived today), but the book is about WRITING a novel, and I need help revising this existing novel, that they feel like has potential, but is not quite publishable yet. Anyway: HELP!

Marissa D · Dec 30, 2018

Don't panic. I suggest you read the book they recommended, think about it for a week or two, maybe re-read it with a specific eye about how it might apply to your writing, and then start thinking about how what you've learned applies to your book.

Good luck!

jjdebenedictis · Dec 30, 2018

First: Congratulations! Getting a revise-and-resubmit with detailed feedback is a great sign! Whoo-hoo! :PartySmil

Second: A request to revise-and-resubmit is generally not something they ask for if all that's needed are small changes. Small changes can be taken care of in the editing stage after they have you sign a contract. If they want you to revise it, then they're expecting substantive changes. They may not be arduous ones, but the edit would still be more than adding a few lines here and there.

Third: When you're still buzzing with adrenaline over coming thisclose to getting a deal, it's easy to fall into the fallacy of thinking you need to make these changes SUPERFAST and get it back to them SUPERFAST. This is a mistake. Take six months to overhaul the manuscript; they really are not expecting to hear from you again in a month. They would probably immediately worry you had only made minor changes if you got back to them that quickly. Take your time, read the book, get some objective feedback from some writer-buddies (here we are! :welcome:

) about your novel, let everything percolate in your brain until you know what changes to make, then make them with care, and give yourself time to think about and re-edit the new material too.

Fourth: Was the book they suggested written by someone associated with the publisher? If not, then it was really nice of them to suggest a particularly useful book in addition to their detailed feedback, but if so, well -- dishonest publishers do exist and that's a big red flag. Just have a sniff at that situation and be sure it passes the smell test. Under no circumstances should the publisher be making money if you, the author, are not.

Fifth: Congratulations again! Squee! That's so awesome! :snoopy:

BethS · Dec 31, 2018

Everything jjdebenedictus said. Everything.

gumandsoda · Dec 31, 2018

jjdebenedictis said:
First: Congratulations! Getting a revise-and-resubmit with detailed feedback is a great sign! Whoo-hoo!

Second: A request to revise-and-resubmit is generally not something they ask for if all that's needed are small changes. Small changes can be taken care of in the editing stage after they have you sign a contract. If they want you to revise it, then they're expecting substantive changes. They may not be arduous ones, but the edit would still be more than adding a few lines here and there.

Third: When you're still buzzing with adrenaline over coming thisclose to getting a deal, it's easy to fall into the fallacy of thinking you need to make these changes SUPERFAST and get it back to them SUPERFAST. This is a mistake. Take six months to overhaul the manuscript; they really are not expecting to hear from you again in a month. They would probably immediately worry you had only made minor changes if you got back to them that quickly. Take your time, read the book, get some objective feedback from some writer-buddies (here we are! ) about your novel, let everything percolate in your brain until you know what changes to make, then make them with care, and give yourself time to think about and re-edit the new material too.

Fourth: Was the book they suggested written by someone associated with the publisher? If not, then it was really nice of them to suggest a particularly useful book in addition to their detailed feedback, but if so, well -- dishonest publishers do exist and that's a big red flag. Just have a sniff at that situation and be sure it passes the smell test. Under no circumstances should the publisher be making money if you, the author, are not.

Fifth: Congratulations again! Squee! That's so awesome!

Okay -- I thought I posted my reply, but it's not showing up, so my apologies if it posts twice now. First of all -- thank you for this! I was ready to send them changes within 24 hours lol (except seriously), so you probably just saved me. Secondly -- you mentioned getting feedback from people here -- how do I do that? I mean, I know people help each other with things like query letters, but a full manuscript seems like a lot to ask. I have a few people locally who could maybe help too, but again -- it's a lot. That was the first thing I though when I got the feedback from the publisher -- great! but yikes! and I need help, but that seems like asking an awful lot!

In terms of the book they recommended, as far as I can tell, this writer and publisher is not affiliated with the press that gave me the R&R. She could be a friend of theirs or something, but it's not anything obvious that I can find.

Barbara R. · Dec 31, 2018

That's very encouraging! I'd answer in depth but after reading the prior responses, I see that all I need to do is second, or third, what JJ wrote.

As someone who gives a lot of notes to writers, I'm always hoping that they'll take my notes and make them their own rather than stick a bandaid over the problem. If, for example, I say that a character lacks motivation for his actions, you can't really fix it by giving him a speech explaining his motivations in some scene or another and then tick that problem off the list. "Harry's my best friend from childhood, so naturally I'd put my own life on hold and jeopardize all I hold dear to help him in his hour of need." That's the B solution.

The A solution is for you as the author to think deeply about why the character does what he does, what his motives are, both stated and tacit, and whether he's acting out of his own concerns or because it's convenient for the Great Plotter (you) that he acts that way. Is the problem that he isn't motivated, or that you haven't conveyed his motivations in depth, not by explaining them, but by having them guide his every action? And after considering all this, you'd naturally want to look at every scene in which the character appears and apply those questions to his behavior in those scenes.

And then you revise. And you integrate some of the great ideas that all this deep thinking has shaken loose. So when the editor next reads the ms., she will not stumble over specific fixes like my clunky B-solution sentence about Harry's motives, but she will not have a moment's doubt as to why Harry's doing what he does.

Good luck and happy revising!

Barbara R. · Dec 31, 2018

gumandsoda said:
Okay -- I thought I posted my reply, but it's not showing up, so my apologies if it posts twice now. First of all -- thank you for this! I was ready to send them changes within 24 hours lol (except seriously), so you probably just saved me. Secondly -- you mentioned getting feedback from people here -- how do I do that? I mean, I know people help each other with things like query letters, but a full manuscript seems like a lot to ask. I have a few people locally who could maybe help too, but again -- it's a lot. That was the first thing I though when I got the feedback from the publisher -- great! but yikes! and I need help, but that seems like asking an awful lot!.

If you want professional eyes on the opening of your novel, you could take me up on this offer, which is practically free; but that only covers the first 5000 words. Hiring a pro to go over the whole ms. is very expensive, and since you had the good fortune of getting feedback from someone who might actually buy your novel, that should be your guideline. You can get "beta-readers" to critique your work in exchange for your reading theirs', but unless you know the person and respect the hell out of their writing, that route often turns out to a case of the blind leading the blind. You can easily be led astray. Unfinished mss. are soft clay---you really don't want too many people's fingerprints in there.

Anyone who wants to be a writer needs to learn to edit their own work; this is your opportunity. It helps to do a number of separate edits, each time focusing on a different aspect of the story. This summary of a revising course I teach gives a bit more detail on that process.

Woollybear · Dec 31, 2018

jjdebenedictis said:
(here we are! )

What a nice group this is.

Fourth: Was the book they suggested written by someone associated with the publisher? If not, then it was really nice of them to suggest a particularly useful book in addition to their detailed feedback, but if so, well -- dishonest publishers do exist and that's a big red flag. Just have a sniff at that situation and be sure it passes the smell test. Under no circumstances should the publisher be making money if you, the author, are not.

Wow. That's a good point.

Gumandsoda: Congrats!!! That is very exciting.

mccardey · Dec 31, 2018

gumandsoda said:
So the good news is that my novel ALMOST got picked up by a publisher. The bad news is the "almost" part. However, they gave me substantial feedback and said they would like to see it again after I revise. They did tell me that one of the main things that needs work is that the central conflict needs to be clearer and established earlier on. I kind of see this as a minor tweak: I added some text throughout that I think does this . . . but they also recommended that I read an entire book about how to write a novel, and I feel like they want more than just a minor tweak. Therefore, I have NO idea how to do this. I mean, first of all, yes, I am totally going to read the book they recommended (I ordered it immediately and it arrived today), but the book is about WRITING a novel, and I need help revising this existing novel, that they feel like has potential, but is not quite publishable yet. Anyway: HELP!

As a safety-check, do just make sure to check out the publisher in the Bewares and Recommendations thread, if you haven't already. (You're not new, so you probably have done this already, but I'll leave the link anyway for other new people.)

gumandsoda · Dec 31, 2018

mccardey said:
As a safety-check, do just make sure to check out the publisher in the Bewares and Recommendations thread, if you haven't already. (You're not new, so you probably have done this already, but I'll leave the link anyway for other new people.)

Good call -- I just searched the forum -- no results at all for their YA imprint (which is where I submitted) or for the main press.

dangerousbill · Dec 31, 2018

Have you read 'Self-Editing for Fiction Writers' by Browne and King? For people who've been writing long enough to get past the newbie stage, it is possibly the best book on revision and story structure that you will find. There is a copy at my elbow as I write.

BethS · Dec 31, 2018

gumandsoda said:
In terms of the book they recommended, as far as I can tell, this writer and publisher is not affiliated with the press that gave me the R&R. She could be a friend of theirs or something, but it's not anything obvious that I can find.

If you don't mind my asking, what book did they recommend?

jjdebenedictis · Dec 31, 2018

gumandsoda said:
(Y)ou mentioned getting feedback from people here -- how do I do that? I mean, I know people help each other with things like query letters, but a full manuscript seems like a lot to ask. I have a few people locally who could maybe help too, but again -- it's a lot. That was the first thing I though when I got the feedback from the publisher -- great! but yikes! and I need help, but that seems like asking an awful lot!

You can ask for a beta reader for the whole book in the Beta Readers, Mentors, and Writing Buddies subforum here on AW. It helps if you offer to beta-read for people in return, but it's possible to find someone who is willing to give high-level comments just for the fun and practice of reading and critiquing a novel too.

In terms of the book they recommended, as far as I can tell, this writer and publisher is not affiliated with the press that gave me the R&R. She could be a friend of theirs or something, but it's not anything obvious that I can find.

Excellent! And I'm glad you took McCardey's advice and checked them out for bewares (Preditors and Editors is another good place to do that) also. Since they seem to be on the up-and-up -- congratulations again!

gumandsoda · Jan 1, 2019

BethS said:
If you don't mind my asking, what book did they recommend?

It's called Save the Cat! Writes a Novel. It's all about structure and formula. It seems really helpful so far!

- - - Updated - - -

jjdebenedictis said:
You can ask for a beta reader for the whole book in the Beta Readers, Mentors, and Writing Buddies subforum here on AW. It helps if you offer to beta-read for people in return, but it's possible to find someone who is willing to give high-level comments just for the fun and practice of reading and critiquing a novel too.

Excellent! And I'm glad you took McCardey's advice and checked them out for bewares (Preditors and Editors is another good place to do that) also. Since they seem to be on the up-and-up -- congratulations again!

Awesome -- thank you so much for all of this!

- - - Updated - - -

dangerousbill said:
Have you read 'Self-Editing for Fiction Writers' by Browne and King? For people who've been writing long enough to get past the newbie stage, it is possibly the best book on revision and story structure that you will find. There is a copy at my elbow as I write.

No, I haven't -- thank you for the recommendation!

Blinkk · Jan 2, 2019

Users have already given top notch advice on editing, so I just wanted to jump in here to say congratulations!

EvilPenguin · Jan 2, 2019

You've already gotten a lot of great advice on here, but I just wanted to add that the Save the Cat structure really is a good resource for writing a novel. My guess is that you have a really interesting idea for a novel right now, but there are some structural issues that the publisher wants you to fix before resubmitting. This probably means you'll have to move some scenes around or re-write a good chunk of the book to fit in with more typical story structures.

I definitely agree with what jjdebenedictus said about reading the Save the Cat book, let it stew in your brain for a week or two and figure out how it relates to your particular story before you really jump into the big edits.

gumandsoda · Jan 2, 2019

EvilPenguin said:
You've already gotten a lot of great advice on here, but I just wanted to add that the Save the Cat structure really is a good resource for writing a novel. My guess is that you have a really interesting idea for a novel right now, but there are some structural issues that the publisher wants you to fix before resubmitting. This probably means you'll have to move some scenes around or re-write a good chunk of the book to fit in with more typical story structures.

I definitely agree with what jjdebenedictus said about reading the Save the Cat book, let it stew in your brain for a week or two and figure out how it relates to your particular story before you really jump into the big edits.

Yeah, and initially I was going to do the exact opposite -- add a few extra scenes, skim the book, and resubmit my manuscript. Thanks to you all, my plan has changed!

BethS · Jan 2, 2019

gumandsoda said:
Thanks to you all, my plan has changed!

Thank goodness.

TAKE YOUR TIME. Rushing will you gain you nothing but a rejection, likely.

And good luck!

Barbara R. · Jan 3, 2019

Good luck! I hope you end up with a revision so good you'll smack your head and say "What was I thinking before?!"

gumandsoda · Jan 3, 2019

Barbara R. said:
Good luck! I hope you end up with a revision so good you'll smack your head and say "What was I thinking before?!"

Hahaha -- yes, that is the goal!

help with revision

gumandsoda

Marissa D

Scribe of the girls in the basement

jjdebenedictis

is watching you via her avatar

BethS

gumandsoda

Barbara R.

Old Hand in the Biz

Barbara R.

Old Hand in the Biz

Woollybear

mccardey

gumandsoda

dangerousbill

Retired Illuminatus

BethS

jjdebenedictis

is watching you via her avatar

gumandsoda

Blinkk

Searching for dragons

EvilPenguin

gumandsoda

BethS

Barbara R.

Old Hand in the Biz

gumandsoda