Wordcount ~ Am i missing something?

BethS · Jan 1, 2019

SwallowFeather said:
Never really tried Outlander but it definitely sounds like "branched out a little too far due to demand," from what you all are saying.

I'm not saying that. Just for the record. I think she's an amazing writer.

BethS · Jan 1, 2019

cornflake said:
That's not that much if you're not doing anything else and if you've, you know, read it before several times. People skim.

I thought Adversary was saying s/he could write 80K in a night. Which also boggled my mind.

ETA: I've reread the relevant bits and I think you're probably right.

BethS · Jan 1, 2019

PamelaC said:
to hoist those books into my lap

I hear you. I read them on Kindle now. :greenie

Adversary · Jan 2, 2019

angeliz2k said:
lizmonster, that is kind of crazy! You must have had confidence in yourself. I'm impressed you were able to pull that off.

Adversary, wow. So you don't care about being offensive, and won't bother apologizing, in fact take a philosophical stand against apologizing even though you've admitted you don't express yourself as you want to sometimes? You just want to antagonize people because you selfishly believe you can get something out of it? Well, count me as one who has no desire to be baited that way. I realize that you don't think that's what you're doing, but it comes off that way to me. There's been some good discussion on this thread in spite of, not because of, you. So, later; I'm out.

So then thats your opinion, yet... the former nasty stuff you state as fact? Hmmm... Once someone says 'Wow', the conversation's in the shitter anyways, so i'm not gonna go on. I do understand your point, we just dont agree. Thats fine, this is the internet, and i am actually not setting out to be offensive or antagonistic.

Swallowfeather, i do thank people, but i miss sometimes, especially making so many posts. Personally, i dont help people here (online) to get thanks, i do it because i can (if i can), and i just think it could very easily be someone else like me asking for help, who lives in a place where you cant get it, and has no one nearby (or knowledgeable enough) to ask. I know what its like to need help and never get it. So i help.

I did not know of the rep system. The forums i'm on that have that have the little rep-counters under each user. Mine has nothing.

Adversary · Jan 2, 2019

SciSarahTops said:
^^ Actually cornflake I think you're right but I had originally read the OP with this as adversary's writing wordcount hence my shock.
I'm reading it again and I think it's all about reading.

Sorry for the confusion - my bad.

Oh god... that... i cannot do. 10, maybe 12K in a night, tops. I meant read 80K. I'm sure others here can read more. I'm a fast reader, but i haven't read 1000 books and i dont do this for a living, i'm sure others read way faster.

What i was having trouble with was that i wasn't skimming. I'm always looking to improve, or for mistakes, or re-reading the odd line, re-typing this and that. Hell, there are even sporadic facebook and eating breaks in that time. Still, i can get through a lot of text. As someone above mentioned, i think one of the biggest reasons is affinity. Affinity can really make a story/text flow. Reading something i just dont like can take forever, even if its well-written. I hadn't thought of that.

Adversary · Jan 2, 2019

On the series getting better/worse over installments, i guess it is just like anything else, say, movies.

1, Make a standalone hit, everyone demands a sequel. Sequel (or 5) gets written, but the magic was in the first, so they just get worse.

2, Make a hit thats first in the series (lets say 5 stories), write those next 4 and they're all good. People demand more, write more (without the magic) story goes downhill.

3, Or, make a hit in a beginning to end series, finish it, and call it a day, and they all get better or remain good.

Lord of the Rings is a good example of the last one. Perhaps Outlander is an example of #2? Maybe she only had 4-5 books worth of story, but got too popular to let it go? Kinda sounds like, by what i read here. Example of #1 is pretty much any blockbuster Hollywood movie ever made... that spawned a pile of shitty sequels.

Adversary · Jan 2, 2019

Oh, and back for a second to the spellcheck thing. I just installed a new OS on my computer, and haven't yet addressed all my preferences. So i see spellcheck all over the place right now (i haven't turned them off yet). Again, maybe i'm missing something, but i think my spellcheck has been hitting the pipe again. Its underlining perfectly correct words, even small common ones. Not often, but a good half-dozen times in various places over the past week, amongst all the other ones. I remember it doing that before. This could be a very frustrating tool for someone who literally relied on it to spell words. What a mess.

cornflake · Jan 2, 2019

Lord of the Rings wasn't written as a series, and spellcheck isn't underlining correctly spelled words.

SciSarahTops · Jan 2, 2019

Adversary said:
Oh god... that... i cannot do. 10, maybe 12K in a night, tops. I meant read 80K. I'm sure others here can read more. I'm a fast reader, but i haven't read 1000 books and i dont do this for a living, i'm sure others read way faster.

What i was having trouble with was that i wasn't skimming. I'm always looking to improve, or for mistakes, or re-reading the odd line, re-typing this and that. Hell, there are even sporadic facebook and eating breaks in that time. Still, i can get through a lot of text. As someone above mentioned, i think one of the biggest reasons is affinity. Affinity can really make a story/text flow. Reading something i just dont like can take forever, even if its well-written. I hadn't thought of that.

I think that's great. You're productive. I haven't checked how much I read in a night so I can't compare. As for your output - my biggest learning curve was getting critiqued, first on critters (where you crit first and then get a heapful of critiques back - very helpful) , then from beta readers. It really helped me improve.

BethS · Jan 2, 2019

Adversary said:
Perhaps Outlander is an example of #2? Maybe she only had 4-5 books worth of story, but got too popular to let it go?

I happen to know that that's not the case for this particular series. From very early on she had it in mind to tell the story of a marriage, from beginning to end. She didn't know how many books that would take or where it would lead except to the final ending, which she already knows. The rest she discovers as she writes.

I only mention that for the sake of accuracy. Whether or not people like the books is entirely their prerogative, of course. For myself, I don't think the writing has gone downhill or the story, either, but it has expanded to include the perspectives of more characters, and that's not to everyone's taste.

amergina · Jan 2, 2019

It's the new year, so I'm going to remind folks of a few things:

1) Assume good intentions.

2) No one owns a thread or the thread's direction and side convos happen.

3) There's a report button on every post.

4) Try not to be jagoffs. You're all writers and can use your words in ways to convey what you mean.

AW Admin · Jan 2, 2019

Adversary said:
Oh, and back for a second to the spellcheck thing. I just installed a new OS on my computer, and haven't yet addressed all my preferences. So i see spellcheck all over the place right now (i haven't turned them off yet). Again, maybe i'm missing something, but i think my spellcheck has been hitting the pipe again. Its underlining perfectly correct words, even small common ones. Not often, but a good half-dozen times in various places over the past week, amongst all the other ones. I remember it doing that before. This could be a very frustrating tool for someone who literally relied on it to spell words. What a mess.

Are you confusing grammar checked and underlined words with spelling check and underlined words?

Because spell check is absolutely not underlining correctly spelled words. Again, you need to check your settings.

Spellcheck and grammar check are built into macOS. It's your responsibility as the user to configure them.

In other words, don't blame the software for user errors.

AW Admin · Jan 2, 2019

Adversary said:
On the series getting better/worse over installments, i guess it is just like anything else, say, movies.

1, Make a standalone hit, everyone demands a sequel. Sequel (or 5) gets written, but the magic was in the first, so they just get worse.

2, Make a hit thats first in the series (lets say 5 stories), write those next 4 and they're all good. People demand more, write more (without the magic) story goes downhill.

3, Or, make a hit in a beginning to end series, finish it, and call it a day, and they all get better or remain good.

Lord of the Rings was written as a single very large book. The publisher split it into three books because of the size the book would be and post-war paper shortages.

And this is a great time for you to read The Newbie Guide to Absolute Write where among other things it discusses the importance of respecting your fellow writers.

owlion · Jan 2, 2019

Adversary said:
Oh god... that... i cannot do. 10, maybe 12K in a night, tops. I meant read 80K. I'm sure others here can read more. I'm a fast reader, but i haven't read 1000 books and i dont do this for a living, i'm sure others read way faster.

I'd still say that's a very good amount to be able to get through, in terms of reading/editing your own work. I can comfortably read 60k or so in an evening when I'm reading for leisure, but it usually takes me a day or so of pretty intense work to get through 50k of my own writing - because of the picking at things and reworking things in my head. It's good you have the endurance to do more!

Also, with spellcheck, it definitely isn't a replacement for human eyes (mine marked words like 'steepled' as incorrect, while missing typos that created acceptable words), but it's useful for drawing your attention to potential mistakes.

indianroads · Jan 2, 2019

owlion said:
I'd still say that's a very good amount to be able to get through, in terms of reading/editing your own work. I can comfortably read 60k or so in an evening when I'm reading for leisure, but it usually takes me a day or so of pretty intense work to get through 50k of my own writing - because of the picking at things and reworking things in my head. It's good you have the endurance to do more!

Also, with spellcheck, it definitely isn't a replacement for human eyes (mine marked words like 'steepled' as incorrect, while missing typos that created acceptable words), but it's useful for drawing your attention to potential mistakes.

You guys are far faster at writing than I am. On a good day, I can lay down 2 maybe 3 K of text. I usually give it a quick edit, but then move on. Once the first draft is done I'll run through the completed work with many editing passes. (My WIP is on edit #5 now.)

BethS · Jan 2, 2019

indianroads said:
You guys are far faster at writing than I am. On a good day, I can lay down 2 maybe 3 K of text.

That would be blazing fast for me. But I revise as I go.

indianroads · Jan 2, 2019

BethS said:
That would be blazing fast for me. But I revise as I go.

It's about getting the job done. One thing that I've learned here (among many MANY others) is that we all have our own way of producing novels / stories, and NONE of them are wrong. As long as it works, it's right.

BethS · Jan 2, 2019

indianroads said:
It's about getting the job done. One thing that I've learned here (among many MANY others) is that we all have our own way of producing novels / stories, and NONE of them are wrong. As long as it works, it's right.

Yep!

owlion · Jan 2, 2019

indianroads said:
You guys are far faster at writing than I am. On a good day, I can lay down 2 maybe 3 K of text. I usually give it a quick edit, but then move on. Once the first draft is done I'll run through the completed work with many editing passes. (My WIP is on edit #5 now.)

Oh, I meant in terms of reading for fun vs reading+editing, sorry. If I could write 50k a day, that would be amazing

2-3k is a really good amount to get down, especially when you're then editing it. Do you find editing it after helps you keep the flow of the story better?

indianroads · Jan 2, 2019

owlion said:
Oh, I meant in terms of reading for fun vs reading+editing, sorry. If I could write 50k a day, that would be amazing 2-3k is a really good amount to get down, especially when you're then editing it. Do you find editing it after helps you keep the flow of the story better?

I do a quick edit as part of my first draft. For me, much of editing is akin to sorting. Initially I move paragraphs around so the story flows better, in subsequent edits I move sentences around within the paragraphs - sometimes separating other times combining them - to make the vision / thought process of the reader smooth.

ETA: I forgot to mention that I tend to write long on my first draft, then hack at it during edits - trimming it down to the text is more lean. The first draft of my WIP was about 107K, it's now about 101K.

Adversary · Jan 4, 2019

owlion said:
I'd still say that's a very good amount to be able to get through, in terms of reading/editing your own work. I can comfortably read 60k or so in an evening when I'm reading for leisure, but it usually takes me a day or so of pretty intense work to get through 50k of my own writing - because of the picking at things and reworking things in my head. It's good you have the endurance to do more!

Also, with spellcheck, it definitely isn't a replacement for human eyes (mine marked words like 'steepled' as incorrect, while missing typos that created acceptable words), but it's useful for drawing your attention to potential mistakes.

I have the endurance, but i also have the time, and that might be the key factor. My work schedule is utterly malleable, so if i want to write, or read for 5 days straight, i can. Doesn't pay the bills, but its nice.

Just two days ago, before i canned it again, mine underlined 'weak', 'instalments', and some other grade 4 word i suddenly cant find. I forgive it the stuff like 'isn't', or don't', because i'm too lazy to use apostrophes half the time (especially in rough draft mode), but yeah, it'll underline some real head-shakers sometimes. I didn't even know about grammar-check, but i wasn't using the words wrong, so even thats a head-shaker. When i do real edits i put it back on and it does grab the odd typo, or the very occasional spelling mistake, and point out all my lost apostrophes... heh heh... I also tend to spell quite a few words purposely wrong, and it gets annoying to always see them underlined.

Adversary · Jan 4, 2019

And as for the rest of the thread/forum, i think i'm just gonna largely shut the fuck up here for a while... make everyone happy. The interaction was nice while it lasted. I honesty learned a lot, and i'm appreciative. Thanks to those who helped.

EMaree · Jan 4, 2019

Adversary said:
I have the endurance, but i also have the time, and that might be the key factor. My work schedule is utterly malleable, so if i want to write, or read for 5 days straight, i can. Doesn't pay the bills, but its nice.

Just two days ago, before i canned it again, mine underlined 'weak', 'instalments', and some other grade 4 word i suddenly cant find. I forgive it the stuff like 'isn't', or don't', because i'm too lazy to use apostrophes half the time (especially in rough draft mode), but yeah, it'll underline some real head-shakers sometimes. I didn't even know about grammar-check, but i wasn't using the words wrong, so even thats a head-shaker. When i do real edits i put it back on and it does grab the odd typo, or the very occasional spelling mistake, and point out all my lost apostrophes... heh heh... I also tend to spell quite a few words purposely wrong, and it gets annoying to always see them underlined.

This really, really sounds like a configuration or possible user understanding issue on your side.
* Underlining 'instalments'.... yeah, you spelled it wrong.
* Underlining 'weak'... is it the same colour as the instalments underline? I'd guess it's the software's grammar checker trying to confirm you didn't mean to say 'week'.
* Underlining other words you know are right... check it's set to 'English U.K.' or 'English U.S.' as you prefer.

Given that you prefer not to use apostrophes and things like capital 'I's when writing rough drafts, it really does sound like you're confusing the grammar checker for the spell checker.

ProWritingAid, a free online tool, was mentioned on page one by Devil Ledbetter and I'll second that recommendation. It's really good at highlighting filler words and helping you trim down prose into something more focused, which will suit your overall aim to reduce your wordcount.

amergina · Jan 4, 2019

I think that's a good place to end this thread.

Wordcount ~ Am i missing something?

BethS

BethS

BethS

Adversary

Adversary

Adversary

Adversary

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

SciSarahTops

late cretaceous

BethS

amergina

Pittsburgh Strong

AW Admin

AW Admin

owlion

Absorbing inspiration from the moon

indianroads

Wherever I go, there I am.

BethS

indianroads

Wherever I go, there I am.

BethS

owlion

Absorbing inspiration from the moon

indianroads

Wherever I go, there I am.

Adversary

Adversary

EMaree

a demon for tea

amergina

Pittsburgh Strong