Drone Season

cbenoi1 · Dec 17, 2018

We're a week away from X-Day and shopping is in full swing.

Drones are flying off the shelves...

... and into crowded airspace.

Mexican Authorities Investigating Whether Drone Crashed Into Aeromexico Flight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jjy9muCPYg

Granted the investigation is not over and we may hear about the more common bird strike instead of a dreaded DJI-Meets-Boeing-Head-On case. But still, the video reports 2,269 close calls by pilots flying over the US this year alone. And it's increasing.

So you bought a drone for Christmas. Do you know where you can legally fly it?

In the US: https://www.faa.gov/uas/
In Canada: https://www.tc.gc.ca/en/services/aviation/drone-safety.html
In the UK: https://dronesafe.uk/

Be smart. Know the rules.

-cb

shakeysix · Dec 17, 2018

Guns, hate speech and drones--our personal rights and damn everyone else.

Jason · Dec 17, 2018

A friend of mine actually owns a drone business - and more of his revenue is coming from people taking classes and getting certifications than from actual equipment sales. Getting your pilot certification in flying drones is a real thing, and actually can be a lucrative field for anyone interested. I think he only offers classes from his 3 stores here in Colorado, but others across the U.S. are doing similar things, so look for one in your area:

https://www.multicopterwarehouse.com/

shakeysix · Dec 17, 2018

remember back in the 70s, the guy who tied helium balloons to his lawn chair and was lifted into commercial airspace? maybe he was the first drone. --s6

No, wait. I googled him. It was 1982. He had no control but a BB pistol and 45 helium balloons. Think what the pilots must have thought when they spotted him. Drones have to be safer.

cbenoi1 · Dec 17, 2018

shakeysix said:
Drones have to be safer.

Drones are not the problem. Most drone buyers do not know rules exist. THAT is the biggest problem right now. Hence my post.

-cb

frimble3 · Dec 17, 2018

Yup. Too many people think they are 'merely' toys, and don't realize the rules, the risks and the responsiblities.

Of course, there's also the problem of 'I have a new drone, whatever shall I do with it?'. I've seen 'drone races' on the sports channels, in the off-season for everything else. They seem to use isolated roads as courses, and fly slaloms around markers, etc. Maybe the same could be done in ghost towns, etc?

Something that keeps people at ground level. Because otherwise, the entertainment choices are between speeding (boring if there's no-one to race against), buzzing people with camera-drones, or, heck, regular drones. Or, seeing how high that drone will go. (Really, a tiny altimeter and an automatic shut-off will take care of that.)
But, give the proud owner a contest, and they'll either be practicing, or tuning the drone, or making little banners to fly from the underbody.

Make obstacle courses for the 'regular' drones.
Pick-up-and-move-objects for the ones with clamps or lifting objects.(Could a drone exert enough pressure to assemble Lego blocks? I assume they could stack blocks.)
Make find-the-object competitions for drones with cameras. Either grab the objects (for ones with lifting gear) or photograph them (for ones with cameras).
Lots of stuff to do with a drone within a few meters of the ground.

The first outfit that gets hold of a disused warehouse, or abandoned mall, and uses it to set up a 'Drone Zone' will start a trend. Which could be replicated in old barns, or garages etc, depending. Or, school contests, either in the halls in weekends or summer, or in the gym. A nice change for those kids who aren't into athletics, and perhaps the re-birth of 'shop class' for small electronics.
Battle-Bots on Roomba bases, next!

cbenoi1 · Dec 18, 2018

frimble3 said:
Something that keeps people at ground level.

Yes and no.

In my short (2 years) experience with drones I get to meet a few types of non-professional drone flyers.

FPV Acrobatics. Those put on (F)irst-(P)erson-(V)iewer goggles and fly small drones in parks, swirling around trees and public toddler playgrounds. The ramping up to the level we can watch on YouTube is excruciatingly slow. We're talking months of training, crashes, and repairs. Those people are dangerous in those few months because they have tunnel vision all the time and never see the incoming cyclists, joggers, toddlers, dogs, or other passer-by.

Unprofessional dumbasses. Those buy drones because they have a utility for them: inspect a roof, enhance the wedding album, or capture cute pictures and videos to better sell properties. They don't care about rules nor about how to properly fly a drone because they are making money right now. Their danger zone is under the drone because they don't know the limits of the drone - ex: battery life, interference from nearby metal structures - and most often than not they lose the drone vertically. Either it falls from the sky for no understandable rationale, or just flies off because they have triggered a flight function they didn't know existed and never read the part of the manual that explained how to cancel it.

Youtubers. They are the most dangerous of them all. They use heavy drones with advanced electronics in order to capture that perfect video. They are mission-oriented which makes them risk-prone and they know how to circumvent the on-board software so they can fly higher and farther. They fly over crowds at outdoor shows. They fly across plane flight paths. They fly over build-up areas and cities and highways. Most just don't know the rules.

Drone flight schools provide a cheap way to get the necessary know-how (and a flight permit) for you to do this kind of stuff. And if it's not enough and some rules still get in the way there exists ways to talk to legal authorities and get a special permit for that too.

Education about drones has to start somewhere. Go check the links in the first post.

Please.

-cb

frimble3 · Dec 18, 2018

Ah! Got ya!
I love your breakdowns of the categories - easily understood and very descriptive.
The problem (as it so often is) seems to be not with the drones, it's with the people running them. Not reading the instructions, not knowing the rules, not following the rules, and the ever-popular 'not paying attention'.

Although I'd like to see the look on the 'unprofessional dumbass's' face when his new drone, full of wedding pictures, heads out into the wild blue yonder, and all his button-pressing is in vain. :e2smack:

Jason · Dec 18, 2018

cbenoi1 said:
Drones are not the problem. Most drone buyers do not know rules exist. THAT is the biggest problem right now. Hence my post.

-cb

Interesting - it's the owner that needs to be educated, not the object itself...very interesting indeed. I wonder what else might fall under this logic

cbenoi1 · Dec 18, 2018

frimble3 said:
Although I'd like to see the look on the 'unprofessional dumbass's' face when his new drone, full of wedding pictures, heads out into the wild blue yonder, and all his button-pressing is in vain.

Below is a local dumbass.

Laval police catch up with drone operator
http://www.iheartradio.ca/cjad/news/update-laval-police-catch-up-with-drone-operator-1.8622556

Police in Laval say they've caught up with a man they had been looking for in connection with a drone that was found on the rooftop of a home in Chomedey in July. On Tuesday, police released a photo that had been found on the drone, and announced they were looking for the man in the photo, who they believe was its owner. The three-pound device in question was found on the roof of a home in Chomedey on July 23. It apparently ran out of power.

-cb

frimble3 · Dec 18, 2018

LOL! Common sense would suggest that you not take selfies(especially such nice, clear, well-framed ones) with the illegally flown object, but common sense isn't all that common.
Maybe he realised that he didn't " have his name an address written on the drone itself." and felt bad?

cbenoi1 · Dec 19, 2018

Jason said:
I wonder what else might fall under this logic

Aviation in general. Planes are dangerous objects to manipulate. So first you need a permit to fly one and you have to get through even more hoops to own one. You need to spend a whole bunch of one-on-one instruction and pass theoretical and practical examinations to get a flight permit. That's a whole lot of education right there. You also need some background checks to get a flight permit - mostly medical, to ensure you are both physically and mental fit to fly a plane. Those who fail miserably at the background checks and examinations never get a permit. The planes - those dangerous objects - are usually found behind large locked doors or fences or surrounded by some surveillance system. The larger planes - the most dangerous ones in terms of potential damage and loss of life - are usually protected by all three.

-cb

Jason · Dec 19, 2018

In that entire explanation it’s still all about training and educating the user. There’s still nothing about banning planes, making planes safer, or preventing people from owning them. See my point?

frimble3 · Dec 19, 2018

Jason said:
In that entire explanation it’s still all about training and educating the user. There’s still nothing about banning planes, making planes safer, or preventing people from owning them. See my point?

Did you not read cbenoi's post? About making people jump through hoops to own/fly one? There are always innovations in trying to make planes safer. Unfortunately, planes are flown by people, and if there was a move to ban people from owning them, you'd get the whining heard 'round the world.

People want to do what they want, when they want to, and carry on like two-year-olds if denied.
Planes at least can be put to useful purposes.
There is no need for drones, in the same way that there is no need for cars that can do more than the posted speed limit (the name 'sports car', right there, says that they're of no real purpose), (motorcycles the same), or smoking cigarettes, or carrying multi-round-at-one-burst guns. But people (chiefly men) act as though they're being oppressed if they're denied their dangerous toys.
(And, personally, I don't care if the toys are dangerous to them. It's the people around them that are at risk.)

cbenoi1 · Dec 19, 2018

Jason said:
... making planes safer ...

The industry as a whole is spending billions to make planes safer. From a plane owner's perspective, you have to follow the scheduled maintenance. You can "make your plane safer" by upgrade some pieces of equipment, like adding an ADS-B transponder (which sill be mandatory soon anyway). Such modification has to go through a licensed mechanic. Anything owners can legally do themselves and still call their airplane "airworthy" is very limited.

Jason said:
... or preventing people from owning them.

Owning and flying are two different things in the aviation world. I know people who own their private airplane but prefer to pay for a professional pilot to get them where they want. And the converse is also true. A great number of private and sports pilots out there do not own a plane. They rent one.

-cb

Jason · Dec 19, 2018

Never mind - no one is going to see the logic here, so I give up. Have fun kiddos

neandermagnon · Dec 19, 2018

It's just been on the news over here that Gatwick Airport had to be closed due to drones and many flights diverted. Further disruption's expected.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-46623754

Airlines and airports could potentially lose huge amounts of money. It's not just the obvious danger to aircraft - pilots will divert the flights where there's a danger. Diverting flights costs a ton of money and disrupts people's journeys. People who fly drones in the wrong place and disrupt flights... presumably there's a danger of them being sued by the airlines as well as facing legal action from the police. There's a potential 5 year prison sentence.

neandermagnon · Dec 19, 2018

Jason said:
In that entire explanation it’s still all about training and educating the user. There’s still nothing about banning planes, making planes safer, or preventing people from owning them. See my point?

Problem is, as long as there are total fucking numptys who can't already understand why flying a drone in controlled airspace over one of the country's busiest airports is a bloody stupid idea, education is never, ever going to be enough. While someone who's already got half a brain can gain and learn a lot by owning a drone and getting a licence to fly it safely, you shouldn't need a training course to know that flying a drone over Gatwick airport is idiotic beyond belief.

Probably it's going to end up with drones being controlled the way guns are (in the UK I mean, obviously!) as in you can only own one with a licence and you can only get a licence if you're a mature, responsible and law-abiding citizen.

BBC 7:30 news just now says Gatwick's still got all flights suspended.

frimble3 · Dec 20, 2018

And, even if there's strict licensing, a---s will still get black market ones, etc. Because idiots will not be denied!

Perhaps it would be at least a stopgap if the army were to station men around airports with orders to shoot down any drones that enter airport airspace. Maybe a few pricey toys blasted out of the sky will be educational.
(And, drones may be hard to trace, but if somebody runs up, yelling "My drone, my drone! Who's going to reimburse me for my drone?" grab him and charge him with endangering lives. One charge for each person on the nearest plane in motion.)

waylander · Dec 20, 2018

frimble3 said:
And, even if there's strict licensing, a---s will still get black market ones, etc. Because idiots will not be denied!

Perhaps it would be at least a stopgap if the army were to station men around airports with orders to shoot down any drones that enter airport airspace. Maybe a few pricey toys blasted out of the sky will be educational.
(And, drones may be hard to trace, but if somebody runs up, yelling "My drone, my drone! Who's going to reimburse me for my drone?" grab him and charge him with endangering lives. One charge for each person on the nearest plane in motion.)

The reports say that the police considered shooting them down but didn't due to concerns over stray bullets.

Bacchus · Dec 20, 2018

I hate the things - I live in an area which was severely flooded in Feb '14 and you couldn't go out of the door without some "you-tuber" taking exclusive footage of you trying to get to work/buy groceries/fetch prescriptions for your neighbours.

My susceptible to flooding area is also close to Heathrow and there seems to be a lot of police helicopter activity today - I wonder whether there is more to this drone story at Gatwick than meets the eye...

waylander · Dec 20, 2018

Bacchus said:
I hate the things - I live in an area which was severely flooded in Feb '14 and you couldn't go out of the door without some "you-tuber" taking exclusive footage of you trying to get to work/buy groceries/fetch prescriptions for your neighbours.

My susceptible to flooding area is also close to Heathrow and there seems to be a lot of police helicopter activity today - I wonder whether there is more to this drone story at Gatwick than meets the eye...

It is currently being reported as a deliberate act of disruption. I can see this as being a possible attempt at extortion - pay us £xxxxx or we'll close the airport for Christmas

cbenoi1 · Dec 20, 2018

neandermagnon said:
{...} education is never, ever going to be enough.

Education alone may not rid them all, but it can't be left aside. At the very least it has the potential to weed out a good slice of the dumbasses we currently have

neandermagnon said:
Probably it's going to end up with drones being controlled the way guns are (in the UK I mean, obviously!) as in you can only own one with a licence and you can only get a licence if you're a mature, responsible and law-abiding citizen.

In Canada we are waiting for the new law to be adopted, which would be early 2019. It will introduce mandatory knowledge skill testing for drone owners with drones having a MTOW (Maximum Takeoff Weight) of 250g or more. More complex operations will require flight permits.

Many driving schools are seeing the writing on the wall and offering drone flight instruction already (ex: https://www.tecnic.ca/en/drone-pilot-course). Soon enough they will offer rebates and bundles - get your driver's license and earn a drone permit for $$$ more. In time we'll get a unified driver's license with drone flying annotations.

-cb

frimble3 · Dec 20, 2018

waylander said:
The reports say that the police considered shooting them down but didn't due to concerns over stray bullets.

I wonder what the range is on a bean-bag or rubber bullet?
I did once think of those hawks that some airports use to scare birds away from runways, but the bird might be injured.

And, the extortion theory sounds reasonable, which means it's even more important to stop this, preferably loudly and publicly, to put off the next idiot who thinks to try this.

Can the signal that controls the drone be traced? Because this would be an excellent situation for secretly tracking the signal, then turn up at the contoller's door, with fully armed SWAT team, and many K9 dogs.
Then, charge them with attempted terrorism, and make a huge spectacle of the arrest.
(Or, just turn the controller over to all those people whose holiday plans were thrown into disarray.)
And if the controller is some fool teenager? Same thing - SWAT team and public humiliation/ wrath of the travellers. Or someone else will try it.

cbenoi1 · Dec 20, 2018

frimble3 said:
Can the signal that controls the drone be traced?

Yes and no.

If it's a DJI drone: https://www.dji.com/aeroscope

Otherwise it's more complicated.

-cb

Drone Season

blue eyed floozy

Ideas bounce around in my head

blue eyed floozy

Heckuva good sport

Heckuva good sport

Ideas bounce around in my head

Heckuva good sport

Ideas bounce around in my head

Heckuva good sport

Ideas bounce around in my head

Nolite timere, consilium callidum habeo!

Nolite timere, consilium callidum habeo!

Heckuva good sport

Who's going for a beer?

Who's going for a beer?

Heckuva good sport