Question about "Expenses" clause in offer contract

mafiaking1936 · Dec 10, 2018

I received an offer of representation from a fledgling agency, but there are multiple red flags setting off my spidey sense. I don't know which aspects are truly shady or just me being paranoid. One clause in the contract they sent is entitled "Expenses," and has the following text:

Author shall be responsible for all costs and expenses related to [AGENCY]’s
efforts to pursue publication of the Work (“Expenses”). Such Expenses may include,
but are not limited to, photocopying, postage, and travel expenses. Such Expenses will
be incurred in [AGENCY]’s sole discretion; provided, however, that (i) [AGENCY] shall not incur
travel expenses without prior approval of Author and (ii) Expenses shall not exceed
five hundred dollars ($500.00) without prior approval of Author. In the event that
Author is unavailable or that [AGENCY] believes it is reasonably necessary, [AGENCY] may, in
[AGENCY]’s sole discretion, advance funds to cover Expenses. Author shall reimburse
[AGENCY] for any advanced funds within thirty (30) days after [AGENCY] notifies Author of the
occurrence of an advance.

Is this normal? What does this mean? I don't intend to pay a dime to publish my work, that's what a vanity press is for. I don't expect a small agency to pay for me to travel to a signing or something, but I could see how this clause could be abused by an unscrupulous company. Thanks for any insight!

lizmonster · Dec 10, 2018

IANAL, but: Hell. No.

Have you checked the Bewares forum or Writer Beware on this agency?

mafiaking1936 · Dec 10, 2018

lizmonster said:
IANAL, but: Hell. No.

Have you checked the Bewares forum or Writer Beware on this agency?

Yep, they're there. There's only one reported experience, and it's pretty positive, so I was a bit surprised at this.

lizmonster · Dec 10, 2018

mafiaking1936 said:
Yep, they're there. There's only one reported experience, and it's pretty positive, so I was a bit surprised at this.

You could always ask if they'd strike that clause, and see how they respond. You may be pleasantly surprised; I've had places cheerfully strike clauses in contracts, even when I assumed my requests would be contentious.

But I wouldn't sign this contract as-is.

AFAIK, an agency should get paid when you get paid. Any travel or postage or whatever expenses they incur while doing their job is part of their business expenses, and should be covered (more or less) by the flat percentages they get from their authors.

~~Do you have an agent involved? That might be another avenue of assistance.~~
nvm insufficient caffeine.

cool pop · Dec 10, 2018

One positive claim posted about a company on a public message board hardly means the place is reputable. You gotta do extensive homework before signing with people. The person who posted this "positive" claim could be someone who has no idea how an agency is suppose to work or could be someone connected with said agency. You can't use the B&B section alone as proof that a pub or agent is reputable. I've been lurking on AW for years. You won't believe how many people have posted good things and even adamantly defended shady and bad publishers/agents right here on AW so take what you read with a grain of salt. B&B is a great resource but not meant to take the place of research or advice. It's always important to do your homework beyond that.

You have to research the agency, find out what books they've sold, what authors they've worked with, their selling history. It isn't hard because most agents report their sales in industry papers and outlets. You can even Google and might find authors the agency represents and then see if they've had any books sold and to whom.

Even PublishAmerica has had "good reports", means diddily squat because they're awful.

Ergo, this agency sounds shady as hell.

Marissa D · Dec 10, 2018

That clause is partly a carryover from the old days of photocopying and submitting hard copy mss. to editors--I've had something similar in agency contracts, but was never charged by my agents for anything...but I've never seen travel worked into it before. That would be a dealbreaker for me; if they're not in NYC, then travel is simply a part of doing business for them and shouldn't be pinned to any one author.

Jeneral · Dec 10, 2018

Like Marissa said, this clause seems to be pretty standard, leftover from the hard copy days. I've seen it in a few different agency agreements. The travel bit makes me side-eye it though. I'd strike that part.

Curlz · Dec 10, 2018

Travel expenses are not standard and it's disturbing that an agent can charge you, for example, to travel to another town to meet an editor (allegedly) and flog your work at a dinner for which you should foot the bill.

mafiaking1936 · Dec 10, 2018

Thanks for the advice everyone, I have a lot to think about. Another weird thing is, they sent the offer without doing "the call," so I have no idea what they want rewritten or revised, etc. I think I should absolutely require that first before I agree to anything. I hate this because realistically, this might be the only shot I get.

Edit: Here's a draft of my possible reply to this:

Dear [AGENT],

Thank you very much for your offer of representation. Please forgive the lateness of my reply, but I have been out of the country for the last week with limited communication. [This is true, I'm not BSing] You have given me a lot to think about. Most parts of the contract you sent are not disagreeable to me, [Also true, except for the 'expenses' part and one or two other bits] but before I commit to anything I would like to go over the revisions you would like me to make in greater detail to be sure than I am capable of delivering the product you require. It is my understanding that it is standard industry practice to have a telephone discussion prior to any agreement, to make expectations clear and to make best possible use of both your time and mine before additional work is done. Is there a day and time that you would be available? I unfortunately have several meetings and additional travel coming up, [True] but if you are not in a hurry I am happy to work something out.

Thank you once again, and I am looking forward to discussing my novel with you further.

I intentionally avoided using contractions to send the message that I intend to be severely businesslike. Good idea? Bad?

Siri Kirpal · Dec 10, 2018

Sat Nam! (Literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

Be up front about your problems with the clauses. They may well be relict from the bad old photo copy days, but then again... Say what your problems are in that letter, and then say you'd like an answer on whether they'll strike those clauses first...and then you might be interested if you have a phone call first. This may sound hard line to you, but really, if they're going to balk at removing the bad guy clauses, you don't want to do business with them.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

frimble3 · Dec 10, 2018

Curlz said:
Travel expenses are not standard and it's disturbing that an agent can charge you, for example, to travel to another town to meet an editor (allegedly) and flog your work at a dinner for which you should foot the bill.

Or, make a tour of all the bookfairs and conventions on your dime. Heck, I'll bet there are bookstores wherever your agent vacations.

mafiaking1936 said:
Thanks for the advice everyone, I have a lot to think about. Another weird thing is, they sent the offer without doing "the call," so I have no idea what they want rewritten or revised, etc. I think I should absolutely require that first before I agree to anything. I hate this because realistically, this might be the only shot I get.

Edit: Here's a draft of my possible reply to this:

I intentionally avoided using contractions to send the message that I intend to be severely businesslike. Good idea? Bad?

'Severely' businesslike is sending it on a lawyer's letterhead.
You are just being polite. And, lengthy, which, if I were a dodgy businessman, might suggest that you are more likely to tiptoe around an uncomfortable situation than come at it head-on, and therefore be an easy target.

Siri Kirpal said:
Sat Nam! (Literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

Be up front about your problems with the clauses. They may well be relict from the bad old photo copy days, but then again... Say what your problems are in that letter, and then say you'd like an answer on whether they'll strike those clauses first...and then you might be interested if you have a phone call first. This may sound hard line to you, but really, if they're going to balk at removing the bad guy clauses, you don't want to do business with them.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

Bolding for emphasis. You want to get this settled first.
Then, worry about revisions and expectations.
What if they make wonderful promises about your work, and your own pet editor, and how they looove your stuff so much, and wouldn't dream of changing a word of it, unless, of course, you think of anything you might want to change. They make talk of the booktour, and the massive sales, and the cover artist who will do whatever you want.
And, in the end, the picture is so dazzling that when they say "No, we're not changing a word of our contract", you can't bear to give up the dream.
Better to get the hard bits settled first, before chances are taken.

Carrie in PA · Dec 11, 2018

Siri Kirpal said:
Sat Nam! (Literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

Be up front about your problems with the clauses. They may well be relict from the bad old photo copy days, but then again... Say what your problems are in that letter, and then say you'd like an answer on whether they'll strike those clauses first...and then you might be interested if you have a phone call first. This may sound hard line to you, but really, if they're going to balk at removing the bad guy clauses, you don't want to do business with them.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

^^^ All of this.

Fuchsia Groan · Dec 16, 2018

I had a clause like yours in my contract and was never charged anything. Don’t recall if “travel” was included, just photocopying and mailing.

I would definitely get on the phone with the offering agent before signing anything. They are not going to parse your email as long as it’s clear and professional. But you need to know the agent’s background and/or what they’ve already sold. If you’re not finding that online, a phone call is the place to ask. Don’t be afraid to be direct. Then verify what you’re told. (I subscribed to PM for a month or so specifically for that purpose.) Also, as you’ve said, it’s best to be able to discuss revisions by phone. My agent followed up with notes, but we talked first. Most agents do that to get a sense of how you’d be to work with.

mafiaking1936 · Dec 17, 2018

Thanks again everyone. Clearly I'm even more clueless about this process than I thought! I think I'll just scrap the email and ask for a phone conversation.

Question about "Expenses" clause in offer contract

mafiaking1936

Nihil debetur. Nihil debens.

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen

mafiaking1936

Nihil debetur. Nihil debens.

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen

cool pop

It's Cool, Miss Pop if You're Nasty

Marissa D

Scribe of the girls in the basement

Jeneral

Cat wrangler

Curlz

cutsie-pie

mafiaking1936

Nihil debetur. Nihil debens.

Siri Kirpal

Swan in Process

frimble3

Heckuva good sport

Carrie in PA

Write All The Words!

Fuchsia Groan

Becoming a laptop-human hybrid

mafiaking1936

Nihil debetur. Nihil debens.