Breaking a book in two because of high word count?

Zoro · Nov 30, 2018

It’s been a good while since I posted, but I was hoping I could get some advice. I hope this is the appropriate sub-forum to put this in.

I have made it to the query stage on a darker epic fantasy that I have written. Which is great, but it comes in at 158,000 words. Which is a lot I know.

I have sent out 13 queries in the last couple of months and gotten back 7 form rejections, no requests. Of course, it could be the writing, the letter itself, simple bad fit, etc. What I was hoping to get advice on was regarding my word count. It is epic fantasy, so high word count is expected. But I also know I am an unknown, with likely little latitude when it comes to this. So I have a feeling the word count in my query is getting me some auto-rejections.

To be honest, I like the story at the word count it is. Beginning, middle, and end all flow just the way I want them to. That being said, looking to be traditionally published, I also know I have to be practical. So, I have been going over my book, and I found a place where I can feasibly cut it in half. With a little tweaking I think I can rework the first half into a standalone book on its own to start a series, and the same for the second half as a second book in the series.

So basically, I like my book the way it is at 158,000 words, but I want to be traditionally published. Should I break it up into two halves (about 80,000 words each)? And if I do that am I creating a new problem? i.e. is 80,000 words going to come across as too short for an epic fantasy?

Any help anyone can be in this would be really appreciated.

-Riv- · Nov 30, 2018

Zoro said:
It’s been a good while since I posted, but I was hoping I could get some advice. I hope this is the appropriate sub-forum to put this in.

I have made it to the query stage on a darker epic fantasy that I have written. Which is great, but it comes in at 158,000 words. Which is a lot I know.

I have sent out 13 queries in the last couple of months and gotten back 7 form rejections, no requests. Of course, it could be the writing, the letter itself, simple bad fit, etc. What I was hoping to get advice on was regarding my word count. It is epic fantasy, so high word count is expected. But I also know I am an unknown, with likely little latitude when it comes to this. So I have a feeling the word count in my query is getting me some auto-rejections.

To be honest, I like the story at the word count it is. Beginning, middle, and end all flow just the way I want them to. That being said, looking to be traditionally published, I also know I have to be practical. So, I have been going over my book, and I found a place where I can feasibly cut it in half. With a little tweaking I think I can rework the first half into a standalone book on its own to start a series, and the same for the second half as a second book in the series.

So basically, I like my book the way it is at 158,000 words, but I want to be traditionally published. Should I break it up into two halves (about 80,000 words each)? And if I do that am I creating a new problem? i.e. is 80,000 words going to come across as too short for an epic fantasy?

Any help anyone can be in this would be really appreciated.

Hi there!

80K is short for epic fantasy. I do wonder if your query letter is the weak link. Have you been attaching pages to the query or letter only?

Consider posting the query letter in Query Letter Hell for feedback. (password vista)

All the best,
Riv

MaeZe · Dec 1, 2018

Not knowing anything about your book or your query, and I'm probably not telling you anything you don't already know, I would still think that if you are going to make two books out of it, they should be two complete stories even if one follows the other.

Have you considered trimming the story? As much as you love all those darlings, maybe they aren't all necessary: End it sooner or start it later?

Bufty · Dec 1, 2018

We obviously have to like our own work, but have you had this epic read by any beta-readers?

Removing unnecessary and/or prefacing words can soon mount up, and add to flow and clarity. :Hug2:

lizmonster · Dec 1, 2018

As Bufty says, the odds are with some aggressive editing you can pare this down a bit. Even 140K (for epic fantasy) will open you more doors than 158K.

If you are 100% certain you really and truly can't trim that much (and I highly recommend both betas and Share Your Work before you dig your heels in), we get to MaeZe's point: if you can't split it into two standalone books, you may be stuck querying a big fat fantasy. Which will indeed lower your odds of finding rep (many agents won't consider a book that long, and won't even get to your pages), but if you've got a solid, tight query letter, it's not impossible.

The one thing I wouldn't advise you to do is split it into two books with a "to be continued" ending for the first one. That's somewhat out of fashion these days. I expect you might get away with it if you were already a big-selling author, but for a debut author seeking an agent, I wouldn't advise the risk.

tiddlywinks · Dec 1, 2018

I'll echo others here in that you have a good shot of paring it back with a weasel word / redundancies / starting later-leaving the scene earlier type of edit run, if you haven't done that. And if you haven't had other eyes on it, I'd highly recommend that. Put up your first chapter in SYW and explain that you have a wordcount problem. I've been in your shoes, and I discovered a LOT of things I was doing in my writing that was adding unnecessary padding. Take a hard core run through the rest of the novel based on what you see as common identified issues in your SYW snippet. Then also get a beta or two willing to work a hardcore LBL with you to identify further weasel word padding. And also think about your scenes. Are they all doing work, or are you hanging on to some scenes that don't really add anything or are covered by another scene? And are you hanging out too long in a scene?

If you haven't done the above, there may be some room for serious word trimming. Then again, if you are a sparse writer and it's just that big story-wise...well...yeah.

Best of luck with this.

Elenitsa · Dec 1, 2018

I got two novels in two volumes, as you can see in the signature (the ones in the middle, each volume between 230-300 pages). And they weren't stand-alone novels, they were the whole story. Like the Three Mousquetaires, who is in two volumes, or like Winnetou, which is in three (or five, depending on the publisher). As long as the two volumes appear at the same time, so the readers know it's two volumes and don't have to wait for the second one to be written and published, it is OK.

But even so, I had to trim severely the word count, with each scene or mini-conversation which didn't add anything really special to the plot.

Zoro · Dec 1, 2018

-Riv- said:
Hi there!

80K is short for epic fantasy. I do wonder if your query letter is the weak link. Have you been attaching pages to the query or letter only?

Consider posting the query letter in Query Letter Hell for feedback. (password vista)

All the best,
Riv

Thanks Riv.

I have been following the agents' various submission guidelines, which generally includes sample pages. So it could very well be the pages, but I also think there is a good reason to believe/worry that they aren't even moving past the 158,000 in the query. Which makes sense as with the volume of queries they have to wade through, I get that it doesn't take much for them to move on without looking any further.

I knew 8o was short, but just trying to figure out what is the best course going forward. I've been thinking about it some more and there are some sections at the end with secondary pov characters that could maybe work at the start of the second book. As some have suggested doing that, I could theoretically bring the word count down closer to 140,000. Assuming that would be more palatable? (or is it still a problem at that word count?)

And thanks for the suggestion about putting the query up.I want to work on it a bit once I decide what I am going to do here, but I probably will then.

Thanks again, your help is much appreciated.

eqb · Dec 1, 2018

As others have said, 158K is too much, but 140K might work depending on the story itself. Anecdotal data point: my first epic fantasy novel clocked in around 148K. I trimmed it down to 120K and it sold to Tor. After the edit rounds, I ended up with 140K.

I strongly suggest (as others have) that you post both the query and the opening pages on SYW.

Zoro · Dec 1, 2018

MaeZe said:
Not knowing anything about your book or your query, and I'm probably not telling you anything you don't already know, I would still think that if you are going to make two books out of it, they should be two complete stories even if one follows the other.

Have you considered trimming the story? As much as you love all those darlings, maybe they aren't all necessary: End it sooner or start it later?

Thanks MaeZe.

Whatever I do, the first and second book will be stories in themselves. With beginning, middle and hopefully satisfying end. There is an overarching storyline, but they will be complete in themselves. Which is also my problem because I like the way I ended it at the word count I did.

In particular I like my primary protagonist’s character arc the way it is in the first book. To keep it simple, he starts out hiding (out of necessity for survival) in the shadows avoiding any kind of responsibility. By the end of the book he has stepped up firmly to the front to take on the reins of responsibility. His character growth drives the book and it comes full circle in the last chapters, with a natural (I hope

) buildup towards that throughout the middle.

That being said maybe I can trim some more, and like I said above even move some secondary pov sections to the second book where it works.

Thanks again for your advice

Zoro · Dec 1, 2018

Bufty said:
We obviously have to like our own work, but have you had this epic read by any beta-readers?

Removing unnecessary and/or prefacing words can soon mount up, and add to flow and clarity.

Thanks Bufty.

I have. But maybe it's time for another, just to get some fresh eyes on it.

Zoro · Dec 1, 2018

lizmonster said:
As Bufty says, the odds are with some aggressive editing you can pare this down a bit. Even 140K (for epic fantasy) will open you more doors than 158K.

If you are 100% certain you really and truly can't trim that much (and I highly recommend both betas and Share Your Work before you dig your heels in), we get to MaeZe's point: if you can't split it into two standalone books, you may be stuck querying a big fat fantasy. Which will indeed lower your odds of finding rep (many agents won't consider a book that long, and won't even get to your pages), but if you've got a solid, tight query letter, it's not impossible.

The one thing I wouldn't advise you to do is split it into two books with a "to be continued" ending for the first one. That's somewhat out of fashion these days. I expect you might get away with it if you were already a big-selling author, but for a debut author seeking an agent, I wouldn't advise the risk.

Thanks lizmonster.

I am definitely on the side now of paring it down to somewhere at least 140,000. Also, never the type to dig my heals in. Everything can always get better. And whatever I do I know to keep each book as a fully encompassed story in itself, aside from the larger story I want to tell in the series.

I will definitely look at more beta readers and putting something up on SYW.

Thanks again, I really appreciate your time and advice.

Zoro · Dec 1, 2018

tiddlywinks said:
I'll echo others here in that you have a good shot of paring it back with a weasel word / redundancies / starting later-leaving the scene earlier type of edit run, if you haven't done that. And if you haven't had other eyes on it, I'd highly recommend that. Put up your first chapter in SYW and explain that you have a wordcount problem. I've been in your shoes, and I discovered a LOT of things I was doing in my writing that was adding unnecessary padding. Take a hard core run through the rest of the novel based on what you see as common identified issues in your SYW snippet. Then also get a beta or two willing to work a hardcore LBL with you to identify further weasel word padding. And also think about your scenes. Are they all doing work, or are you hanging on to some scenes that don't really add anything or are covered by another scene? And are you hanging out too long in a scene?

If you haven't done the above, there may be some room for serious word trimming. Then again, if you are a sparse writer and it's just that big story-wise...well...yeah.

Best of luck with this.

Thanks tiddlywinks.

I am going to follow your advice, as well as others, and really go over the book looking at the points you mentioned.

Thanks again for your time and thoughts.

Zoro · Dec 1, 2018

Elenitsa said:
I got two novels in two volumes, as you can see in the signature (the ones in the middle, each volume between 230-300 pages). And they weren't stand-alone novels, they were the whole story. Like the Three Mousquetaires, who is in two volumes, or like Winnetou, which is in three (or five, depending on the publisher). As long as the two volumes appear at the same time, so the readers know it's two volumes and don't have to wait for the second one to be written and published, it is OK.

But even so, I had to trim severely the word count, with each scene or mini-conversation which didn't add anything really special to the plot.

Thanks elenitsa.

Your personal experience is really helpful. And I will look at trimming some more where I can.

Zoro · Dec 1, 2018

eqb said:
As others have said, 158K is too much, but 140K might work depending on the story itself. Anecdotal data point: my first epic fantasy novel clocked in around 148K. I trimmed it down to 120K and it sold to Tor. After the edit rounds, I ended up with 140K.

I strongly suggest (as others have) that you post both the query and the opening pages on SYW.

Thanks eqb.

I will definitely work at bringing down the word count based on your, and others, shared opinion. And once I have everything where I am comfortable with it I will look at posting it up.

Thanks again, having this help is invaluable.

Breaking a book in two because of high word count?

Zoro

-Riv-

The much appreciated

MaeZe

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen

tiddlywinks

Chaser of Shineyyyy Plot Bunnies

Elenitsa

writing as Marina Costa

Zoro

eqb

I write novels

Zoro

Zoro

Zoro

Zoro

Zoro

Zoro