First-Publication Rights (pertaining to a specific matter)

Enlightened

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Hello All.

Mods, if this is in the wrong forum, please move it. Thank you.

[This page] notes "There are journal editors and literary agents who don’t really care about work published on small Web sites. Did you put a story up on a message board for critique? Have you posted a chapter of your manuscript on your blog? As long as the work isn’t plagiarized from someone else, some literary agents and editors don’t mind if the writing has appeared online.

But until the industry fully adjusts to the presence of the Internet, many literary agents and editors are going to simply reject work they consider to be previously published. At this point, the best option for writers is to play it safe until the rules become clearer
."

I have a series planned. In at least one chapter, of each book, I'd like to make a short chapter. As part of the plot (where the short chapter is enough to get the reader through the book without problems), for example, the main character is seen fleeing from the villain. In an earlier chapter, he lets another know where he is going.

I would like, for some of these chapters, to build short stories (as promotional content for my current book and the series). In the above example, I will share what does not appear in the book (what the MC did to get the villain so angry). In other short chapters, also not germane to the plot, I will retain those short stories for a limited edition or anniversary release of the books (if the series does well).

Questions:

1. If I post the short stories on Wordpress, Blogger.com, or some other Blog site (instead of my personal Web site), and link to them on social-media pages (e.g. Twitter), will I ever be able to sell the published-to-blog materials (for such things as: a complete IP buyout that can be used commercially ; additions to the non-published shorts in an anniversary/limited/other re-release)?

2. Is there a preferred means of posting the promotional content while retaining rights to commercialize it at a later time? If yes, what are they?

3. How does self-publishing effect my concept?

4. Is this a bad idea, going the trade publication route, in general?


Thank you.
 
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lizmonster

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I would like, for some of these chapters, to build short stories (as promotional content for my current book and the series). In the above example, I will share what does not appear in the book (what the MC did to get the villain so angry). In other short chapters, also not germane to the plot, I will retain those short stories for a limited edition or anniversary release of the books (if the series does well).

I don't quite understand what you're talking about doing. Are you talking about having a single chapter fleshed out elsewhere as a short story? Does the book require the short story to be understood?

Regarding future revenue from work published on a blog: generally, all things are possible, but if you're trade publishing, I wouldn't put a single thing on line before you speak to your agent. Certainly publishers sometimes pay for work that's been previously published (anthologies do this frequently), but you want to make sure you're not diluting the value by posting it for free.
 

Enlightened

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Great advice on asking the agent. I thought of that before, but I was also interested in building a following (public platform) to help land an agent. Regardless, I think that is a really safe move. One I will employ. Thank you, Liz!

What I am doing....

Let's say my first book has 20 chapters and comes in at 80,000 words. One of the chapters might be something like 5 pages. This is the chapter in question. As a short, I would use the same chapter title (posted to Blog), but it would only include part of the chapter leading to the start of the five-page chapter in the book. The book, without the short, will be submitted for trade publication.

The initial intent is to gain digital followers (begin a digital platform), demonstrating my writing, and gain their interest in my book/series.

Later, I may want to publish this pre-published content (combining it with the actual matter of the chapter appearing in the trade-published book) and do an anniversary re-release of the book (or something along those lines). This pre-published content will not be germane to understanding the story or the series, but it will give added depth to character development and maybe setting.

I'll also add, to such anniversary re-releases of books in the series, extended chapters that will go unpublished to Blog.
 
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cool pop

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Great advice on asking the agent. I thought of that before, but I was also interested in building a following (public platform) to help land an agent. Regardless, I think that is a really safe move. One I will employ. Thank you, Liz!

What I am doing....

Let's say my first book has 20 chapters and comes in at 80,000 words. One of the chapters might be something like 5 pages. This is the chapter in question. As a short, I would use the same chapter title (posted to Blog), but it would only include part of the chapter leading to the start of the five-page chapter in the book. The book, without the short, will be submitted for trade publication.

The initial intent is to gain digital followers (begin a digital platform), demonstrating my writing, and gain their interest in my book/series.

Later, I may want to publish this pre-published content (combining it with the actual matter of the chapter appearing in the trade-published book) and do an anniversary re-release of the book (or something along those lines). This pre-published content will not be germane to understanding the story or the series, but it will give added depth to character development and maybe setting.

I'll also add, to such anniversary re-releases of books in the series, extended chapters that will go unpublished to Blog.

I agree with Liz (again) ;) I wouldn't put any of the stuff you're hoping to sell to a publisher online or anywhere. What you can do is write some short stories specifically for the purpose of showing off your skills if this is what you're interested in. Put those up to gain followers but you risk a publisher losing interest if you already have your the stuff you want to get published up for the public to see, sample or not.

Also be careful what you put online. There are a lot of plagiarists out there.
 
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Bufty

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Hi, Enlightened.

You are working on the assumption that the posted 'chapter' or 'chapters' relating to the intended series gain a substantial following. If they don't.... why risk attracting attention to that fact?

Short stories that have nothing to do with the series won't carry that risk.

Just a thought.
 
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Elle.

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Great advice on asking the agent. I thought of that before, but I was also interested in building a following (public platform) to help land an agent. Regardless, I think that is a really safe move. One I will employ. Thank you, Liz!

Just some food for thoughts from my experience. Every single agents I have heard speak or read an agent interview have always mentioned that when it comes to fiction, having a platform and a following has no impact nor increase chances of representation. They are only interested in media platform for non-fiction authors as a platform help with visibility in their field and the subject of their books (cooking, politics, etc...)

The one thing that make a different for fiction agents from what they say, is that they like to know in the query letter if the author has had short stories published or listed in competitions, because that shows them that to some degree that person can write.

What is going to make a difference and land you an agent is write the best book you can, so my advice would be to write the book first and then once you are editing or you have down time then write some short stories and submit them to magazines for publication.
 

Enlightened

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Hello everyone.

Thank you all for replying.

cool pop: I agree. I may make some shorts that use my setting and spells/potions, but not my characters/plots.

Bufty: They are not complete chapters, but missing elements of chapters (i.e. information not needed to follow the book, but additional information for the reader). I agree; bad risk.

Elle.: At this time, I have no intention of submitting shorts to magazines, but that may change. Thank you for the information on platforms and agents.
 
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Treehouseman

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The marketing you’re describing is sometimes used by in-house publishers to promote their works and drive up sales on a VERY planned out timeframe. (Such as Tor.com)

Release your “chapters” yourself too early in the cycle, and when the publisher does it later... the people who have already liked/read the samples won’t go to the publisher’s website to read it again.

The low website hit amounts make the publisher think that readers aren’t too keen on your book.

They re-think the marketing strategy “obviously no hits means this book is going to be a flop, let’s invest less in its release”.

Suddenly the book is released without a budget, less ARCs, less bloggers, and suddenly the likelihood of your book succeeding becomes less and less.

By all means, write a prequel or companion story, but the book contents and marketing needs to be left to the publisher.

(Also if you got an agent today, the earliest you would see your book come out is late 2020)
 

Enlightened

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The marketing you’re describing is sometimes used by in-house publishers to promote their works and drive up sales on a VERY planned out timeframe. (Such as Tor.com)

Release your “chapters” yourself too early in the cycle, and when the publisher does it later... the people who have already liked/read the samples won’t go to the publisher’s website to read it again.

The low website hit amounts make the publisher think that readers aren’t too keen on your book.

They re-think the marketing strategy “obviously no hits means this book is going to be a flop, let’s invest less in its release”.

Suddenly the book is released without a budget, less ARCs, less bloggers, and suddenly the likelihood of your book succeeding becomes less and less.

By all means, write a prequel or companion story, but the book contents and marketing needs to be left to the publisher.

(Also if you got an agent today, the earliest you would see your book come out is late 2020)

Thanks for replying. I'm not worried about release time frame, at this time, too much. Great points of the samples and possible concerns. Cheers!
 

Enlightened

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Book series.... If it was a standalone, I would agree. At the moment, I am typing A LOT of notes (to add them to my digital files for later retrieval for writing). I will take some time off this month to watch college football bowl games (American football) and relax over Christmas and New Years. That is my timeline, for now.

I gave myself a deadline to start writing Feb 14, ready or not. I hope to start writing book one before then.
 

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Second Elle that you don't stress too much about social media presence :) It's only a dealbreaker if you write nonfiction; otherwise, it's not important at the querying phase.

I know you said you have no interest in shorts at present, but if you are open to it in futtre, they are definitely helpful as an overall thing. Getting a short into a pro zine buys you sfwa membership, access to sfwa forums and other professionals in your industry, and has surprising links in lots of places. For example, Lightspeed magazine is run by JJA, the same guy who runs John Joseph Adams (a very good sff imprint).
 
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Fallen

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I agree with Treehouseman (edit!): the publisher will handle any 'teaser' from the novel. They're good at picking out things like that. I'd just concentrate on writing the novel, then getting it accepted. Anything from there you can discuss with your publisher/agent. Most authors start out with little followers, and anyone who takes you will know how to get your work noticed. It's what they get paid to do, and it's always best to get advice/help from them.
 
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Enlightened

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Do you plan to write the entire series before you start submitting to agents? (If you go the trade publishing route, that is.)

Absolutely, no. I will outline all books before I write book one. I will query when book one is completed with revisions. I will attempt trade publishing, yes.
 

Enlightened

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Second Elle that you don't stress too much about social media presence :) It's only a dealbreaker if you write nonfiction; otherwise, it's not important at the querying phase.

I know you said you have no interest in shorts at present, but if you are open to it in futtre, they are definitely helpful as an overall thing. Getting a short into a pro zine buys you sfwa membership, access to sfwa forums and other professionals in your industry, and has surprising links in lots of places. For example, Lightspeed magazine is run by JJA, the same guy who runs John Joseph Adams (a very good sff imprint).

I'm definitely open to shorts and submitting them. For now, book one of a series has my attention. I'll try shorts if my book one (of series) does not find a publisher or after my series is complete, and I still want to write.

Thanks for the info on social-media presence. I thought I read some AW'ers posting that some agents demand a public platform months ago. Maybe I read that somewhere else.
 

Enlightened

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I agree with Enlightened: the publisher will handle any 'teaser' from the novel. They're good at picking out things like that. I'd just concentrate on writing the novel, then getting it accepted. Anything from there you can discuss with your publisher/agent. Most authors start out with little followers, and anyone who takes you will know how to get your work noticed. It's what they get paid to do, and it's always best to get advice/help from them.sher.

Thank you for the information. Appreciated!
 

Enlightened

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For anyone following this thread, what are current-day norms (max words per book, first-time/unpublished author) for: MG? YA?

I think 50,000 MG (entire book) and 80,000 YA (entire book).

Are these still the maximums, or have these changed; if they changed, what is more realistic now?


Thank you.
 

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Absolutely, no. I will outline all books before I write book one. I will query when book one is completed with revisions. I will attempt trade publishing, yes.

Ah, okay. So for trade publishing for fiction, you don't need a platform, and you definitely shouldn't post chapters online.

I'd also advise you to be prepared to rethink later plots once you sell the first novel. You never know what 1) you discover needs to change, and 2) what editors will advise you to change.
 

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Ah, okay. So for trade publishing for fiction, you don't need a platform, and you definitely shouldn't post chapters online.


This excludes SYW, right?
 

starrystorm

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Yes, because SYW isn't publicly available because of the password protection. Your work wouldn't show up in a search, so it's safe there.


Good. That's what I thought, but wanted to make sure.
 

Enlightened

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Ah, okay. So for trade publishing for fiction, you don't need a platform, and you definitely shouldn't post chapters online.

I'd also advise you to be prepared to rethink later plots once you sell the first novel. You never know what 1) you discover needs to change, and 2) what editors will advise you to change.

I'm flexible. The outlines exist to guide me to what needs to happen where. Who dies where, for what reason. What ramifications occur from the death of the characters, and so forth. I have my series symmetry set up in such a way I know when to hint at certain things and when to reveal them (as series secrets to keep the series connected). My outlines exist to organize the chaos, among other tactics I will use.

I'll see where I am when I finish the book (revisions and all) and I get a round or two, if necessary, of querying in (regarding public platform and starting one).

I appreciate the info. Thank you. :)