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Treating narration like internal monologue?

Whitelocke

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I'm just wondering what people think about writing narration (specifically third person) as if it is the internal monologue of the character. For example, I'll interrupt the narration if the character's thoughts are interrupted like:

He was looking across the field when he saw-
"Hey! What are you doing here?"

I have a writing partner that hates it when I do this, but I'm positive I've seen it before. Only, I think I saw it in a Murakami book and that's far from normal writing. What do you guys think? Is this a thing?
 

Dennis E. Taylor

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So the narrator is talking about himself in 3rd? Or the narrator is describing the actions of the MC as they're happening?
 

Whitelocke

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There is no narrator as a character, if that's what you mean, just the normal narration of the novel. The narrator is talking about the actions and feelings of the main character, but very deeply into their POV.
 

lizmonster

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It can work, but if your crit partner is complaining they're finding it a distraction. Have you asked them the specific issue? Is it that you do it at all, or just too often/in the wrong places for this reader?
 

Brightdreamer

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I've seen things like this before, I keep thinking. Part of me thinks this style might work better in first-person POV - the part of me that thinks I've seen it before keeps thinking it was in first, where the words are understood to be flowing straight from the character's mind onto the page, in a matter of speaking. Third, even deep third, is just that small step removed from the character, which might make it more jarring.

It could also be easily overused; I think it would work better at moments of true surprise and rapid action.

Second the suggestion to ask for clarification from the beta, if it's that you use it at all or use it in places where it's confusing or not effective. (And also consider more than one opinion.)

JMHO...
 

O-shin

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Writing in third person is flexible like that. The narration can be 'the voice in their head' and be privy to everything they see and think, or a separate party that is just observing what is going on (and either know much more, much less than character, or just as much as the character too). Bulgakov's Master and Margarita is one, where the viewpoint is of a narrator who seems to live with their character, sharing in their observations and feelings while also knowing much more than the characters themselves. The key point here is consistency- once you hold that point you should continue on with it.
 

indianroads

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First IMO you need to lose the quote marks - and reserve those for speaking. Some here have suggested using italics for internal narration, but personally I find an excessive use of italics distracting. I suggest you just work those direct thoughts into your writing - and remember feelings such as worry or joy are part of the internal monologue, but have no words tightly bound to them.
 

Whitelocke

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Heh, I think people are getting too hung up on the example I thought up on the fly. The quote marks are someone else talking and interrupting the character's train of thought.
 

Bufty

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Heh, I think people are getting too hung up on the example I thought up on the fly. The quote marks are someone else talking and interrupting the character's train of thought.

Not getting 'too hung up' at all. Just working with what was provided.

Clarity always helps.
 
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Curlz

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Close third is a thing and its standard. Your punctuation is not standard, though, but that can work as well. As long as the whole book is done that way and not just this one place where you thought it would be nice to have it, just there.
 

BethS

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He was looking across the field when he saw-
"Hey! What are you doing here?"

I have a writing partner that hates it when I do this

I'd find it a little annoying, too, because the POV character knows what he saw, presumably, so why not just say what it is? Also, it's not really a train of thought being interrupted. He's not being introspective; he's simply looking at something.
 

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I totally do this. And I usually write in the 3rd person, jumping between different character's perspectives, and sometimes in my perspective as an author. I figure I'm trying to tell a story, not write technically, so I'll tell the story however I can do it best. I think it's clear in my writing whose view it is, so I don't think it would be that annoying.
 

Bufty

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I totally do this. And I usually write in the 3rd person, jumping between different character's perspectives, and sometimes in my perspective as an author. I figure I'm trying to tell a story, not write technically, so I'll tell the story however I can do it best. I think it's clear in my writing whose view it is, so I don't think it would be that annoying.


It's all in the execution but what you've outlined above seems suspiciously like head hopping to me, and - because writing is a craft - the knowledge/application of proven techniques usually improves the effectiveness of the writing.
 

Whitelocke

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Guy quotes one person but addresses another (edit: actually the wording is just ambiguous, but the situation is still ironic), and lectures everyone about clarity and the integrity of the craft along the way XD. All good, some writers are orthodox, others like me value creativity more.
 
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Bufty

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Guy quotes one person but addresses another (edit: actually the wording is just ambiguous, but the situation is still ironic), and lectures everyone about clarity and the integrity of the craft along the way XD. All good, some writers are orthodox, others like me value creativity more.

Not sure, but if I am this 'guy' to whom you are referring, my entire post#14 relates to (and was intended to relate to) the poster whose post was quoted and who was also addressed in the reply.

Doesn't everyone aspire to be creative in their writing? And surely clarity will enhance any creativity.
 
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Whitelocke

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Pretty annoying when people get pedantic and condescending over meaningless reading/writing errors, isn't it?
 

Whitelocke

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You're right. I apologize. I was trolling to make a point. Got a little frustrated that people started taking my friendly noob conversation question as an invitation to seriously critique the two lines of imaginary story I wrote. Anyway, good way to get a feel for this forum I guess.
 

BethS

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You're right. I apologize. I was trolling to make a point. Got a little frustrated that people started taking my friendly noob conversation question as an invitation to seriously critique the two lines of imaginary story I wrote. Anyway, good way to get a feel for this forum I guess.

Fwiw, I think most of us took those lines to be a genuine illustration of the problem your reader was having. Answers were a sincere attempt to help. A few members asked clarifying questions, most of which were never answered. When you did finally respond, it was with trolling. If this was meant to be a friendly conversation, it fell short of the mark.

So...maybe try again?

To return to your original question, which I think I have a better understanding of now, it's surely possible to have a character interrupt the viewpoint character's deep train of thought, and to break off said thoughts mid-sentence if necessary. But to make it work, 1) it has to be actual internal monologue, not just narrative description of what the viewpoint character is seeing (as in your sample), and 2) you probably wouldn't want to do this more than once in a novel, unless you're trying to make a point about a character always being so wrapped up in thoughts that he doesn't have a clue what's going on around him. Because it's a noticeable device, and the more you use it, the more it will call attention to itself. As one member here already pointed out, it might not be the device itself that's the problem, but its frequency of use.
 

indianroads

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Doing an editing pass of my WIP - and came across this snippet which is similar to OP question.

A Staff Sergeant met them inside the door and silently ushered them into a meeting room located just off the main auditorium. Once inside, he noted that the walls were scarred in places where cameras had been removed; whatever was about to be discussed was obviously highly classified. Several nervous senior officers sat in rows of folding chairs while at a table at the far end of the chamber General Bradley quietly spoke with his staff. Earl was surprised to see that Carolyn sat near the end of the table; why was she there?
 

Bufty

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Not sure I see the connection between this and the OP issue of the (possibly jarring) interruption of a POV character's thoughts. Earl isn't thinking anything.

Doing an editing pass of my WIP - and came across this snippet which is similar to OP question_

A Staff Sergeant met them inside the door and silently ushered them into a meeting room located just off the main auditorium. Once inside, he noted that the walls were scarred in places where cameras had been removed; whatever was about to be discussed was obviously highly classified. Several nervous senior officers sat in rows of folding chairs while at a table at the far end of the chamber General Bradley quietly spoke with his staff. Earl was surprised to see that Carolyn sat near the end of the table; why was she there?
 
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Helix

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Doing an editing pass of my WIP - and came across this snippet which is similar to OP question.

A Staff Sergeant met them inside the door and silently ushered them into a meeting room located just off the main auditorium. Once inside, he noted that the walls were scarred in places where cameras had been removed; whatever was about to be discussed was obviously highly classified. Several nervous senior officers sat in rows of folding chairs while at a table at the far end of the chamber General Bradley quietly spoke with his staff. Earl was surprised to see that Carolyn sat near the end of the table; why was she there?

There's quite a lot of filtering in this.
 

Barbara R.

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I'm just wondering what people think about writing narration (specifically third person) as if it is the internal monologue of the character. For example, I'll interrupt the narration if the character's thoughts are interrupted like:

He was looking across the field when he saw-
"Hey! What are you doing here?"

I have a writing partner that hates it when I do this, but I'm positive I've seen it before. Only, I think I saw it in a Murakami book and that's far from normal writing. What do you guys think? Is this a thing?

It could work. But your first line isn't internal monologue. We don't think to ourselves "I'm looking across this field." We think stuff like, "Look at that bear! Is he headed toward us?"

If you were really using IM, it could easily be interrupted by any sort of intrusion on the character's attention. E.g.:

What a huge bear! And he looks hungry. And wait...is he actually heading our way? Maybe I should get those animal crackers from the car and---

"Move it!" Marcy yelled, grabbing my arm.
 

Bufty

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It could work. But your first line isn't internal monologue. We don't think to ourselves "I'm looking across this field." We think stuff like, "Look at that bear! Is he headed toward us?"

If you were really using IM, it could easily be interrupted by any sort of intrusion on the character's attention. E.g.:

What a huge bear! And he looks hungry. And wait...is he actually heading our way? Maybe I should get those animal crackers from the car and---

"Move it!" Marcy yelled, grabbing my arm.


Great example of interrupted IM, and I don't find anything jarring about the interruption.