Is this a participle phrase?

LesFewer · Nov 8, 2018

"She pushed against it, her weight plunging it down into the quiet depths."

This is taken from one of the Mistborn books.

I'm used to participle phrases starting with a participle, I guess "plunging" in this case. Seems like in this case there's a noun in front of it "her weight".

"She pushed against it" is a complete clause. Isn't "her weight plunging it down into the quiet depths." a complete clause as well?

Or maybe it's not a participle phrase? Maybe it's an appositive?

Maryn · Nov 9, 2018

No, "her weight plunging it down into the quiet depths" isn't a complete clause.

I'm pretty sure it's not a participial phrase, either. As I recall my education of long ago, such phrases begin with the present or past participle then add modifiers and complements. All participles and participial phrases function as adjectives. That's no adjective.

I'm not sure what term describes what the phrase is in terms of its function within the sentence. I'm also not sure it matters, really, so long as it makes sense. Which it does.

But since you asked, I'll keep you company while we wait for the grammar folks to arrive. Want half my bagel?

EvilPenguin · Nov 9, 2018

I can't offer any insight to your question, but I have a question of my own to add. Are participle phrases bad to use in novels? I only ask because I find myself writing sentences a lot like the line from Mistborn. If it ends up not being a participle phrase, then I guess it doesn't matter, but if it is, I'm wondering if someone can explain whether it's bad (or just not the greatest type of sentence to use.)

Chase · Nov 9, 2018

Fortz said:
"She pushed against it, her weight plunging it down into the quiet depths."

This is taken from one of the Mistborn books.

I'm used to participle phrases starting with a participle, I guess "plunging" in this case. Seems like in this case there's a noun in front of it "her weight".

"She pushed against it" is a complete clause. Isn't "her weight plunging it down into the quiet depths." a complete clause as well?

Or maybe it's not a participle phrase? Maybe it's an appositive?

Yes, "she pushed against it" is a complete, independent clause.

No, "her weight plunging it down into the quiet depths" is a fragment rather than an independent clause because "plunging it down" is a participial phrase modifying "weight." The line can't stand alone as a complete sentence.

I don't think it can be an appositive because appositives are noun phrases which should only name a person, place, or thing, whereas "her weight plunging it down into the quiet depths" explains an action.

I agree with Maryn that the exact nomenclature is moot since the construct makes good sense, and in my estimation can only be "bad" if overused to the point it annoys readers.

Maryn · Nov 9, 2018

I feel sorry for the authors who have no idea how easily annoyed I am sometimes!

Don B · Nov 9, 2018

This is actually an "absolute phrase", which is a fancy way of saying a phrase (not a clause) containing a noun, participle, and anything else, that modifies an entire clause.

Here, "her weight" is the noun (+ adj) described by the participial phrase "plunging it down", with "it" being described by the prepositional (adjective) phrase "into the quiet depths". This entire absolute phrase serves to describe the core clause of the sentence, explaining how "she pushed against it."

BethS · Nov 10, 2018

EvilPenguin said:
I can't offer any insight to your question, but I have a question of my own to add. Are participle phrases bad to use in novels? I only ask because I find myself writing sentences a lot like the line from Mistborn. If it ends up not being a participle phrase, then I guess it doesn't matter, but if it is, I'm wondering if someone can explain whether it's bad (or just not the greatest type of sentence to use.)

It's only bad if 1) it's done too often (true of most anything in writing), and 2) if the modifying phrase is misplaced and therefore makes a hash of the meaning of the sentence.

LesFewer · Nov 10, 2018

Thanks all.

Interesting to see that there are sentences with dependent clauses that fall outside of the six or so rules that grammar books teach you.

Now when I read and I find a comma I try to figure out why they put a comma there. I think it's helping my writing.

Sage · Nov 10, 2018

Fortz said:
Interesting to see that there are sentences with dependent clauses that fall outside of the six or so rules that grammar books teach you.

I had the hardest time trying to teach an author some comma rules during a recent beta read because I couldn't find names for the kind of phrases I was looking at. For the sake of teaching the rule (so I didn't have to mark each comma each time), I wanted a name they could look up.

Chase · Nov 10, 2018

Don B said:
This is actually an "absolute phrase", which is a fancy way of saying a phrase (not a clause) containing a noun, participle, and anything else, that modifies an entire clause.

Let's see if it meets the "absolute phrase" test to (more or less) fit behind, in front of, and in the middle of the independent clause:

"She pushed against it, her weight plunging it down into the quiet depths."

"Her weight plunging it down into the quiet depths, she pushed against it."

"She, her weight plunging it down into the quiet depths, pushed against it."

It does! You're spot on, Don. :greenie

Fallen · Nov 10, 2018

Don B said:
This is actually an "absolute phrase", which is a fancy way of saying a phrase (not a clause) containing a noun, participle, and anything else, that modifies an entire clause.

Here, "her weight" is the noun (+ adj) described by the participial phrase "plunging it down", with "it" being described by the prepositional (adjective) phrase "into the quiet depths". This entire absolute phrase serves to describe the core clause of the sentence, explaining how "she pushed against it."

;
^ spot on.

It just adds more context to the main clause. So the comma shows it's just that: context that complements -- not vital to the main clause, just there to add more flavour and depth.

Don B · Nov 10, 2018

Chase said:
Let's see if it meets the "absolute phrase" test to (more or less) fit behind, in front of, and in the middle of the independent clause:

"She pushed against it, her weight plunging it down into the quiet depths."

"Her weight plunging it down into the quiet depths, she pushed against it."

"She, her weight plunging it down into the quiet depths, pushed against it."

It does! You're spot on, Don.

Whew!

When I go explaining these things I feel so confident, then half the time I later realize it was complete nonsense--it only made sense because I had convinced myself by some inner logic--like a goldfish in his bowl saying, "Yes! I understand the ocean! I HAVE THE POWER!"

Is this a participle phrase?

LesFewer

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Chase

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BethS

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