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frimble3

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Not a POC, but I find this problematic:
one entire clan of Fae are slaves, because they're black... (snip) because the king and several of the nobility are black too. It really is all random.
If it really is 'random' and a white fae can have a black child, and this is so common that no-one bats an eye, why is one entire clan of Fae black? And, why are these black Fae the ones who are slaves? As you put it "because they're black"? It doesn't sound random.

Why not make them the usual Fae blend of colours, but they're still slaves (as Indian 'Untouchables' look like everybody else, or 2 religious groups can tell each other apart, or Italian slaves in Ancient Rome looked like Romans.) Everybody but your MC and her friend 'just know' who's a slave.

For that matter, why not throw some un-human colours into the mix - green hues or blue?
 
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Snitchcat

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What happened to the mud that was smeared on the lighter skinned Fae? Wouldn't it have fallen off by the time of the rescue or during?

As for being disrespectful? There isn't really an answer, IMO, 'cos human colours are used and I'm not sure exactly how the Fae differ that completely from humans, except that magic dictates skin colour. With the Fae retaining classicism issues, etc., they strike me as a more idealistic version of humans -- with magic.
 

EMaree

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Count me in as confused why the mud didn't drop off the lighter-skinned Fae after their rescue... I'm worried the reason might be steering close to a 'they were covered in [magic] mud and now they're black forever' thing, which is a bit of a white mythology trope that is super racist because it equates blackness with uncleanliness.

for her white (Scottish, Russian, British, and American) parents and her Indian best friend and her parents (Indian, Bengali, British, and American)

Also, very quickly: I can't tell if your book starts in the US or UK because you mention Celtic/British influences. If it's starting in the USA this sort of lineage listing won't raise many eyebrows, but if it's in the UK it will raise a lot of eyebrows -- assuming your protags have two parents (if they have poly parents, that's rad, please ignore this paragraph), it's very unusual to see a Brit choose more than two nationalities (Scottish-Indian, British-Indian, British Bangladeshi etc).

The listing of Scottish and British separately for your first protag raises a ton of questions (did you mean Scottish and English/Welsh/Northern Irish/Manx/Shetlander? Is the writer aware that people who identify as 'Scottish' may or may not identify as 'British', depending on political leaning?).

I hope this doesn't sound too nitpicky. I love Celtic-influenced Fae stories and I have a big soft spots for stories that include Gaelic, so I'm really excited by the sound of your work!
 
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kuwisdelu

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The slave thing is problematic.

There’s no way it won’t read like “oh see these black people are slaves but it’s okay because anyone can be a slave and it’s a totally random coincidence,” and many of us will stop reading there. Even if it really is totally random in your worldbuilding.

Why do they have to be black? Why can’t the ogres hunt by scent and kill people randomly, and your character is just horrified that there are slaves at all? And sure some of them just happen to be black, but that’s not emphasized because it doesn’t need to be.
 

EMaree

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Ok, regarding the multitude of ethnicities: Girl A has a Scottish father who does consider himself British. Yes, I do know that not all Scots do. She has a Russian mother who was adopted by American parents. They live in the US, and the girl was born there.

Girl B has parents who are 3rd generation British Indians. Mother's family was Bengali, father's family just "Indian" without getting more specific than that. The couple moved to the US as adults and had their daughter there.

So both families are British, but live in the US. The Fae, once they start crossing over in the storyline, speak British English and some Gaelic. Both Irish and Scottish.

Ah, gotcha. That all makes sense for folks living in the US -- I know it's very common to go back multiple generations there, it's just far less of a thing culturally on this side of the pond.

(By the way, do you know Scottish Gaelic? Because I don't, and there's only so far I can get with Google translate and Forvo! I'm looking for someone to consult.) :)

I'm a native speaker but I'm afraid I'm nae good for consultation on written projects. Gaidhlig grammar is a super tricky beast and not one I'm qualified to advise in. There are teachers available (this Facebook group is good for leads and this reddit is also decent) though you should be prepared to pay for their time, since it's still a minority-status language and the few skilled consultants available tend to be very busy.

Forvo is excellent but Google Translate can be very unreliable.

Snitchcat: yes, my Fae are kinda idealized versions of humans, in some ways. It's a major plot point that although they don't care about skin colors, they do still have racism (against non-Fae races such as dwarves, humans, centaurs, etc) and classism.

Again, I feel like I'm nitpicking on your off-the-cuff posts here, but just in case -- tread carefully if putting the bolded detail in your manuscript, as "I don't see colour" is a really common line spoken by dominant identities. It's much-parodied now, and is generally considered to mean "I refuse to acknowledge that people who look differently to me are treated worse".

Also, I'll second Kuwi's advice to really think about the 'Why?' for this worldbuilding element. That the black Fae race doesn't seem like a crucial part of the world you've built, which is otherwise super interesting, so it's really worth thinking about whether it's worth including such a minor worldbuilding detail that could alienate a big chunk of readers.
 
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kuwisdelu

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The language and culture thing doesn't fit, as I said

Out of curiosity, any particular reason why not?

I notice in SFF a lot of writers fall into the pattern of writing non-human races as mono-cultures. But humans aren't a mono-culture, so why would other races be either? There's no reason there can't be a bunch of different cultures/societies/communities/languages within a Fae race either. Maybe there's some other reason it doesn't fit your story in particular, but just something to think about.

Kuwisdelu, thank you for the suggestion of having them hunt by scent. I've already established their good sense of smell, so I think I'll take your suggestion. I hadn't thought of it before, because as I said: visual thinker. I have to be reminded to incorporate other senses as well, which you've done, and I appreciate. :)

Glad it was helpful. They can even still rub themselves with dirt and mud to help mask their scent once they figure it out.
 
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veinglory

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I would suggest getting a sensitivity reader. If fae color comes from their magic, I don't see why they all look like human "races" in terms of color and other characteristics. Seems they could be any color at all with hair feathers horns or anything at all as an option with only a small proportion coincidentally haveing the morphology, color, hair etc similar to a human population.
 

AW Admin

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Just as a note, the descriptions of the Sídhe, the original fae, in medieval Irish literature has them being very Other.

They are multiple races, and they are variously colored, including blue and green, often with multi-colored hair, sometimes with two and three pupils, etc.

There's a description of one individual who is described as dark black, with a word usually associated with references to glass and its shine. Not, in other words, the black of humans.
 

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I am not a fantasy writer or fantasy reader, but I am an author of color. And my advice here is to be careful. You mentioned that you wrote this story because you are bothered that so much fantasy is all white. That's great. I am happy that you are taking steps to change that and I am glad you have added non-white mythical beings in your book.
But there is a difference between populating a wold with different races, and writing a story where race is a plot point. Even if race is random in your world, it is an important part of your world-building. It cannot possibly be unimportant, since you yourself said that most of the black beings are slaves (why they are slaves are unimportant, the fact is that they are.)

And while I personally don't have an issue with white writers writing other races (so long as they do the research, avoid stereotyping, write with sensitivity, etc.) I do feel that white writers may not have the life experience to write stories about race, or racial issues with the nuances that authors of color can. If you feel strongly that these stories are necessary in fantasy, it may be better for you to lift up authors who have the tools to write them instead.

This is my opinion, and I'm sure it won't be a popular one.

Either way, from what I have seen, I strongly recommend a black sensitivity reader. And possibly a south Asian one for that character. And I even then, be prepared for push back on this from agents and readers.

By the way, this does sound like a compelling story, and I hope you don't give up on it. :)
 
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kuwisdelu

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Even if race is random in your world, it is an important part of your world-building.

And I'd add that it sounds like race isn't random in this world; skin color is random. And skin color is not race.

People sometimes seem to forget white-passing PoC exist, and they still deal with racial issues. Just another thing to consider.
 

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It sounds like you've but a lot of thought into this, and I'm very glad you have. Without reading the book, I can't know for sure what (if any) problems it may have. Getting a sensitivity read is a great step. A sensitivity reader is more than just a person of colour reading the book, but rather a person from a specific identity who is experienced in identifying racial microagressions and problematic representation associated with that identity. This is why I suggested a black sensitivity reader. There are a couple of things I should clarify about my comment above.

1- I did not say that white writers do not have to tools to write about racism, what I said is that they don't have the life experience to write about it with the nuance that a marginalized person could. And I do not feel that living among people of colour gives people that experience, either. There are reasons that publishing has recently recognized the importance of own voices for these stories. It doesn't sound like your story is about racism, though, so it's not an issue here. What is worrying me is that you believe growing up in area with predominately people of colour gives you the ability to fully understand what it's like. Just like I will never really and completely understand what it's like to have white privilege, you must admit that you can't fully grasp the experiences of those who have always been marginalised because of their skin colour.

2- it sounds like your Indian representation is well-done (but again, I can't know that without reading it). I am Indian, and the only advice I have for you there is to watch for stereotypes with the family, but I LOVE that you've chosen to have the best friend character Indian (we need more in fantasy!)

3- The biggest issue I see with with your black representation is the slavery. No matter the reason, 4 black people as slaves is a problem. Is there any reason why you can't change the race of the slave clan? Also, the part you spoke of when the lighter-skinned people covered themselves with mud to darken their skin is extremely troublesome, as it reminds me of black-face. And using dirt or mud to make a white person more like a darker person is a problem, no matter how you phrase it. The trope/misrepresentation of darker-skinned people being dirty or unclean is very old, and very prevalent, and it's the last thing you want to do is remind readers of. I have experienced racism first hand where people have asked me if I was really brown, or just hadn't showered in a while.

I hope this helps you! And good luck with your story!
 

Norman Mjadwesch

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Hugh Cook wrote a ten part fantasy series from the late-1980s onwards (The Chronicles of an Age of Darkness) and one of his methods was to describe the different races of people in ways that were not immediately identifiable to me (in part because I was an oblivious teenager who took way too many things literally). For example, he described his Asian cast as having golden skin (for me, that meant metallic), and white people as pale grey, the latter which, when the penny finally dropped, I took to mean pallid skin (think Celtic on a freezing day). Even after I realised what the author had done to describe the various races in his books, I was unable to retroactively translate any of the characters in my mind to skin tones that fit the real world, as I had already mentally embedded his described skin colours mostly as saturated primary colours and the imagery was very vivid to me. He did throw some red herrings in there, too, such as green hair. So far as I can remember, race wasn’t integral to his story, but it was fun to visualise his cast as a multitude of different skin colours. Maybe writing your characters using similar strategies is something to consider if you are trying to avoid giving offence? OTOH, I do wonder if my blindness to Cook’s racial profiles is proof that I was some sort of ignorant white kid who had little experience with other cultures, though in my defence my best friend in kindergarten had been Maltese, which I recall my parents were pretty happy about.