Exposition: Too much, or too little?

uhstevedude

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I've had some criticism recently that I lacked exposition to really sell my story in my manuscript, and I've gotta ask: what are your feelings regarding exposition in a fictional world? Like, my story is a take on our current America, flash forwarded 200 or so years after magic comes to life. Rather than a metropolis, the old America blew up and now there's a new settlement where magic is now capital. (Think social dystopian future). A world like that requires a lot of exposition, but at the same time, I was trying to be careful to not imply that the rules/world wouldn't be similar to our own.

Any suggestions or thoughts? If you've read anything similar that did this well, feel free to talk about those too!
 

D. E. Wyatt

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A lot of it depends on how you want to handle the reveal of your world. Do you want readers to know right off that this is a dystopian future America? Do you want them to piece it together over the course of the book?

I don't think you can completely avoid info dumps, but the more organically you can work them into the narrative, the better. And obviously, SHOW, don't tell. IE you can have a market scene where readers will actually get to SEE magic as currency at work.
 

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Delivering exposition well is a dark art. It may be hard for any given writer to explain their process clearly but you will hear a lot of similar themes such as weaving it in through your setting and characters, using info-dumps judiciously if you must use them, showing vs. telling, etc.

I saw a video recently that went through a lot of it pretty well: On Writing: How to Deliver Exposition (Part One) (of a two-part series).
 

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Oh, I think you can completely avoid info dumps. It just takes work, and craft.
 

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Don't do pure exposition unless there is no better way.

A few better ways:

Two characters with differing ideas of what they're expositing arguing with each other over history. This gives a sense of character AND a sense of world.

Having a character come across something from the ancient world that matters to their current situation.

Keep it very, very, short. You summed up the history of your transformed world quickly in your OP. Do something like that at the beginning of your novel.

Take a look at the first chapter or so of Magic Bites, an urban fantasy novel with a transitioned world similar to yours. No real info dump, just a character interacting with the world.
 

D. E. Wyatt

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Oh, I think you can completely avoid info dumps. It just takes work, and craft.

I think it also depends on the type of work, as well. Some (IE high fantasy that may have a lot of backstory that needs to be gotten through. The Council of Elrond is a great example of this; the entire chapter is one big info dump, and yet it fits perfectly within the story and setting) are more likely to use them than others.
 
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uhstevedude

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A lot of it depends on how you want to handle the reveal of your world. Do you want readers to know right off that this is a dystopian future America? Do you want them to piece it together over the course of the book?

I don't think you can completely avoid info dumps, but the more organically you can work them into the narrative, the better. And obviously, SHOW, don't tell. IE you can have a market scene where readers will actually get to SEE magic as currency at work.

Ironically, there is a market scene in the 3rd scene of my novel, but I was thinking of a Prologue. An aptitude test is a part of the inciting action (And who gets accepted where), and in my experience: aptitude tests tend to include a bunch of BS about history. I was thinking of writing an Answer to a Question as the Prologue that also answers how this world came to be in an organic way that isn't a BLATANT info dump. Or maybe just make it a like a 1 on 1 interview between him and a proctor.
 

uhstevedude

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Delivering exposition well is a dark art. It may be hard for any given writer to explain their process clearly but you will hear a lot of similar themes such as weaving it in through your setting and characters, using info-dumps judiciously if you must use them, showing vs. telling, etc.

I saw a video recently that went through a lot of it pretty well: On Writing: How to Deliver Exposition (Part One) (of a two-part series).

This must be one of the episodes I missed. I've seen all the On-Writing videos, but missed this one. Thanks!
 

uhstevedude

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Oh, I think you can completely avoid info dumps. It just takes work, and craft.
Some info dumps are fun, though. Especially if you establish an interesting idea. Lev Grossman's the Magicians is 65% info dumps, because the main character is a Super Fan of a series and literature: everything he does is an infodump, because he's constantly comparing it to the book series he loves. I'm starting to think it depends on voice.
 

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Oh, I think you can completely avoid info dumps. It just takes work, and craft.

+1

If you write a lump of text that even you, as the author, label an "infodump," mark it for serious revisions on the next draft.

I think it also depends on the type of work, as well. Some (IE high fantasy that may have a lot of backstory that needs to be gotten through. The Council of Elrond is a great example of this; the entire chapter is one big info dump, and yet it fits perfectly within the story and setting) are more likely to use them than others.

Keep in mind that LOTR was written in a specific elder-day style for a very specific reason, and it was also written many, many years ago for a different audience than exists now. Using Tolkien to justify infodumps doesn't fly unless you're time-traveling back to when he was fresh... or unless you're intentionally writing for a niche sub-market of epic fantasy. You can indeed write fantasy, even epic fantasy, without resorting to Tolkienian infodumps. As has been mentioned, there are many non-dumpy ways to convey backstory, some of which serve double-duty, such as revealing character when, for instance, one character sees the ancient city as a beacon of civilization while another sees it as a cesspit of corruption draining the life from the land. And when you must resort to telling, do your best to keep it to small bites - and do try to avoid the stale old chestnut of having a character attend a lecture with Professor Infodump droning on for a chapter.

One important thing to remember is that authors, particularly new authors, often overestimate the amount of backstory that a reader needs to specifically be told. If I may use a construction metaphor, the worldbuilding from which infodumps stem is like the framework and foundation of your story-house. You, as the author, ought to know as much as possible about the world so you can build it consistently, but the audience shouldn't need you to tear off the drywall and rip up the carpets and force them to peer into the crawlspace with a flashlight to reveal that, yes, you did indeed use proper framing and include good wiring. They'll pick up on it when they see the walls are straight and the lights come on and the stairs don't collapse when they try to go up to the balcony.
 

uhstevedude

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Don't do pure exposition unless there is no better way.

A few better ways:

Two characters with differing ideas of what they're expositing arguing with each other over history. This gives a sense of character AND a sense of world.

Having a character come across something from the ancient world that matters to their current situation.

Keep it very, very, short. You summed up the history of your transformed world quickly in your OP. Do something like that at the beginning of your novel.

Take a look at the first chapter or so of Magic Bites, an urban fantasy novel with a transitioned world similar to yours. No real info dump, just a character interacting with the world.
Ironically, I peeked at this story while back because it had a lot to do with what I wanted to do. I haven't gotten to read it, yet. I picked up the Craft Sequence and studied it first. Do you really think it'd apply?
 

uhstevedude

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+1

If you write a lump of text that even you, as the author, label an "infodump," mark it for serious revisions on the next draft.



Keep in mind that LOTR was written in a specific elder-day style for a very specific reason, and it was also written many, many years ago for a different audience than exists now. Using Tolkien to justify infodumps doesn't fly unless you're time-traveling back to when he was fresh... or unless you're intentionally writing for a niche sub-market of epic fantasy. You can indeed write fantasy, even epic fantasy, without resorting to Tolkienian infodumps. As has been mentioned, there are many non-dumpy ways to convey backstory, some of which serve double-duty, such as revealing character when, for instance, one character sees the ancient city as a beacon of civilization while another sees it as a cesspit of corruption draining the life from the land. And when you must resort to telling, do your best to keep it to small bites - and do try to avoid the stale old chestnut of having a character attend a lecture with Professor Infodump droning on for a chapter.

One important thing to remember is that authors, particularly new authors, often overestimate the amount of backstory that a reader needs to specifically be told. If I may use a construction metaphor, the worldbuilding from which infodumps stem is like the framework and foundation of your story-house. You, as the author, ought to know as much as possible about the world so you can build it consistently, but the audience shouldn't need you to tear off the drywall and rip up the carpets and force them to peer into the crawlspace with a flashlight to reveal that, yes, you did indeed use proper framing and include good wiring. They'll pick up on it when they see the walls are straight and the lights come on and the stairs don't collapse when they try to go up to the balcony.

This was really useful, because it's really true. I have never been able to sit down and read Tolkien straight, nor have I been able to sit through his successor, George R. R. Martin, and I happen to LIKE extensive prose. Lev Grossman does a lot of prose work, and doesn't even really split his chapters up in a conventional sense. I think I'm trying to channel that, but a lot of his perspective doesn't translate properly
 

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+1

If you write a lump of text that even you, as the author, label an "infodump," mark it for serious revisions on the next draft.



Keep in mind that LOTR was written in a specific elder-day style for a very specific reason, and it was also written many, many years ago for a different audience than exists now. Using Tolkien to justify infodumps doesn't fly unless you're time-traveling back to when he was fresh... or unless you're intentionally writing for a niche sub-market of epic fantasy. You can indeed write fantasy, even epic fantasy, without resorting to Tolkienian infodumps. As has been mentioned, there are many non-dumpy ways to convey backstory, some of which serve double-duty, such as revealing character when, for instance, one character sees the ancient city as a beacon of civilization while another sees it as a cesspit of corruption draining the life from the land. And when you must resort to telling, do your best to keep it to small bites - and do try to avoid the stale old chestnut of having a character attend a lecture with Professor Infodump droning on for a chapter.

One important thing to remember is that authors, particularly new authors, often overestimate the amount of backstory that a reader needs to specifically be told. If I may use a construction metaphor, the worldbuilding from which infodumps stem is like the framework and foundation of your story-house. You, as the author, ought to know as much as possible about the world so you can build it consistently, but the audience shouldn't need you to tear off the drywall and rip up the carpets and force them to peer into the crawlspace with a flashlight to reveal that, yes, you did indeed use proper framing and include good wiring. They'll pick up on it when they see the walls are straight and the lights come on and the stairs don't collapse when they try to go up to the balcony.

Right, but you get my point that a lot has to do with the type of writing.

Case in point, I'm currently working on three different fantasy projects; one is light, breezy, and a bit tongue-in-cheek. The second is more formal. The third draws much more direct influence from Tolkien, and is being written in something similar to that "high" style. The first largely avoids infodumps, because it doesn't fit the style (I may have one or two conversations with characters telling one another stories, but these are often used to flesh the OTHER character out. IE in the series' third book, the main character listens to her companion tell a story from his past, and while it establishes a bit about his character, it's as much about HER reaction to it). The third work — much like Tolkien — is something of a pseudo-historical prose, such that the second chapter depicts the climactic battle of a devastating war, and opens with a brief summary of the overall conflict leading up to that point to establish the context. The second occupies a middle ground between the two. The use of exposition in the third work fits within the stylistic choice, but I wouldn't even consider doing that for the other two.
 
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uhstevedude

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Right, but you get my point that a lot has to do with the type of writing.

Case in point, I'm currently working on three different fantasy projects; one is light, breezy, and a bit tongue-in-cheek. The second is more formal. The third draws much more direct influence from Tolkien, and is being written in something similar to that "high" style. The first largely avoids infodumps, because it doesn't fit the style (I may have one or two conversations with characters telling one another stories, but these are often used to flesh the OTHER character out. IE in the series' third book, the main character listens to her companion tell a story from his past, and while it establishes a bit about his character, it's as much about HER reaction to it). The third work — much like Tolkien — is something of a pseudo-historical prose, such that the second chapter depicts the climactic battle of a devastating war, and opens with a brief summary of the overall conflict leading up to that point to establish the context. The second occupies a middle ground between the two. The use of exposition in the third work fits within the stylistic choice, but I wouldn't even consider doing that for the other two.

Oh, definitely, I see what you mean. The stylistic approach influences the exposition. I tried to keep that in mind when writing my narrative, but usually I would use reference books as a baseline for how I should think about approaching my narrative. The problem was that I was having difficulty finding books that approached my narrative from the setting choice, voice and character interaction that I specifically chose. I've looked into Children of Blood and Bone by Tomi Adeyemi, but even that isn't entirely similar. I'm happy I got the feedback in any case, because it's telling me that the method I've chosen is counter-intuitive to the style I'm using in my writing.

Science Fiction/Fantasy Writing: it's what you love to hate.
 

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Perhaps you're worrying too much.

First, you can't please everyone. Some people hate Tolkien's big chunks of exposition. But for others they are a big part of why they love his books and reread them and buy new editions when their old ones wear out. Don't be afraid of dumps. Just do them well when you must.

Second, on a first draft you can do anything you please that helps you get through the long sometimes difficult job of writing and FINISHING the book.

REWRITING IS YOUR FRIEND. Dump away. I do so if I'm in the middle of a scene and vital info pops into my head, delivered by some genie of inspiration. I know that on rewrite I can cut it, redistribute it or parts of it, or rewrite so that it becomes entertaining in its own right.

My latest book is selling well. Of the 240+ comments on Amazon and Goodreads I read all of the negative comments first, because experience has shown me they often have valuable info. Some of them said they disliked what they thought of as info dumps.

After I exhausted those (and they did indeed have changes that I felt needed making) I started with the most positive. After a couple dozen of those I quit; they began to repeat. There are also too many, well over a hundred.

And those "info dumps"? One of biggest selling points of the book. And of my six previous books. Because I found out it's true; every new book is an ad for all our previous books.
 

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I don't think you can completely avoid info dumps, but the more organically you can work them into the narrative, the better.

I'm of the mindset that you should avoid exposition as much as possible. That being said if it is necessary to the story then you have to find some way to fit it in. It really does depend on the type of story you're telling and how you'd rather tell it. There are slow burning stories that are overloaded with exposition that end up being very good.
 

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Don't be too afraid to leave your reader with questions. You'll get to answer them later and it will keep your reader engaged. A lot of exposition can be gradually fed into your sentences, slowly building a picture for your reader. It's easier to show than tell, so don't be afraid to jump right into the action. Your reader will catch on quickly once they start to learn the rules of your world. Start with your immediate setting for your opening scenes, then expand on it only as the information becomes relevant. I recommend Blackwing by Ed McDonald. It's a fantasy dystopia, which does require a LOT of exposition, but he handles it very well. He doesn't give everything away at once, but he doesn't let the reader becomes overwhelmed with questions either. Unfortunately, like a lot of writing skills, good exposition is about developing a balance and that can be tricky!
 

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Perhaps you're worrying too much.

First, you can't please everyone. Some people hate Tolkien's big chunks of exposition. But for others they are a big part of why they love his books and reread them and buy new editions when their old ones wear out. Don't be afraid of dumps. Just do them well when you must.

...
And those "info dumps"? One of biggest selling points of the book. And of my six previous books. Because I found out it's true; every new book is an ad for all our previous books.
I think this is a good reason of thought for why I should maybe just go with indie publishing. I reached out to agents and peers about my story, and the consensus is that it's too long, and when I state that "I want it to be long. This story grapples with a lot of issues that I feel like need to be explored like this, otherwise it does those themes injustice, and therefore, the marginalized invoked in justice." The response is always simply "too bad, you'll never publish this."

But, I'm fickle and someone telling me I can't do something in my craft makes me want to do it anyway.
 

uhstevedude

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POV has a lot to do with how you handle (and what you can get away with) in exposition, of any kind.

caw
True! I think my brand of readers will like my form of exposition from my characters. I think it's worth experimenting with since it's not like any one is waiting on me.
 

uhstevedude

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+1

Who are you writing for? That framing might help focus you a bit.
You know what, I don't think I ever asked that question in my writing. Most of it has been, "I want to write a story about X that deals with y and begs the Question: What happens when you introduce this to a social climate like ours right now?"
 

uhstevedude

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I'm of the mindset that you should avoid exposition as much as possible. That being said if it is necessary to the story then you have to find some way to fit it in. It really does depend on the type of story you're telling and how you'd rather tell it. There are slow burning stories that are overloaded with exposition that end up being very good.
I had this mindset too! I avoided lengthy expositions and tried to sprinkle them into the setting the opening chapter, but I think doing that might have dis-involved my reader, and it's showing. Their is subtle confusions because I also wanted the first chapter to look "quick and pretty" so now I have a bare skeleton.

I'm starting to say that maybe you should expose only as much as so you have a semi complete story in the start, and then the inciting action ruins the rules you've established so far, so that now you've gotta "show the new rules" in this world as the story continues.
 

uhstevedude

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I'm of the mindset that you should avoid exposition as much as possible. That being said if it is necessary to the story then you have to find some way to fit it in. It really does depend on the type of story you're telling and how you'd rather tell it. There are slow burning stories that are overloaded with exposition that end up being very good.
I had this mindset too! I avoided lengthy expositions and tried to sprinkle them into the setting the opening chapter, but I think doing that might have dis-involved my reader, and it's showing. Their is subtle confusions because I also wanted the first chapter to look "quick and pretty" so now I have a bare skeleton.

I'm starting to say that maybe you should expose only as much as so you have a semi complete story in the start, and then the inciting action ruins the rules you've established so far, so that now you've gotta "show the new rules" in this world as the story continues.
 

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I think this is a good reason of thought for why I should maybe just go with indie publishing. I reached out to agents and peers about my story, and the consensus is that it's too long, and when I state that "I want it to be long. This story grapples with a lot of issues that I feel like need to be explored like this, otherwise it does those themes injustice, and therefore, the marginalized invoked in justice." The response is always simply "too bad, you'll never publish this."

But, I'm fickle and someone telling me I can't do something in my craft makes me want to do it anyway.

Have you worked with any experienced beta readers? I haven't gotten to the stage of hunting for agents yet but I wouldn't be so hasty to write them off as they _are_ experienced readers. Without having seen your manuscript, most writers tend to either under or over-exposit and its very likely you are over-expositing, even if you believe it's all necessary. Working with a skilled reader who will give you detailed feedback on this might give you a new perspective.