R&R Purgatory

ap123

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Not sure this is the best forum for this, but since even my questions are fuzzy and I'm feeling dejected, here I am.

I got an R&R from an agent on a requested full last month. She wasn't what I'd call vague, and when I emailed her back with questions, she responded with answers, but I'm definitely not talking about anything as detailed as could be called an editorial letter. I'm working on it, and think I'm just about done, but can't help but feel I'm missing something. In my mind, if the changes I've made so far were actually enough to make the difference, she would have made an offer and then discussed revisions. On the flip side, I can't imagine her offering an R&R if the mss was very far off from offering rep.

I'm stuck, which is ok for the moment bc I want to let it all sit for a bit before looking at it again, but I don't want to stay stuck, and my interactions thus far with this agent have been great, I'd love to have this go forward (to say the least).

Anyone else currently working on an R&R for an agent? Past experience?

Thanks!
 

mccardey

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Let it sit for a day or two would be my advice - and then re-read and shoot it out into the ether and just cross your fingers. It always feels terrifying. At least you'll have the comfort of knowing that the moment you hit 'Send' you'll find three typos that you would have missed otherwise. (Resist the urge to fix them and resend the ms. That way lies madness.)

It feels terrifying because it is. But we can handle it, right? That's why they pay us the big bucks. Oh, wait -
 

ap123

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Thanks mccardey. :Hug2::Hug2:

I'm letting it sit. (but once I hit send I'm not going to look!)
 

ap123

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What sorts of revisions are they? Do you have any betas who read the first version and could read the revision and revision notes?

(Also, congrats on the interest! Fingers tightly crossed.)

Thanks, Anna!

Basically, playing down one aspect of the plot and playing up another. Kind of funny, after all my barely have a plot stories, my attempt to focus on plot has = too much plot. :roll:

Nope, on betas who read the last version that are available to read this one. Timing is everything, and at the moment, mine sucks.
 

ap123

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Congrats on getting this far!!!! I second to not look back after hitting send!

Thanks, Undercover! Have you done this, an R&R for an agent who isn't (but you hoped would be) your agent? If so, what type of work did you need to do?
 

Sparverius

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Some agents will do an R&R because they want to make sure you are capable of good revisions before they offer. Getting answers from her is great though, you don't want to be working based on notes that are too vague! Congrats on the interest!!

My R&R's first round of notes was more like a broad strokes edit letter, then got less detailed after that. Vague language on the agent's part wasn't helpful.
 

ap123

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Some agents will do an R&R because they want to make sure you are capable of good revisions before they offer. Getting answers from her is great though, you don't want to be working based on notes that are too vague! Congrats on the interest!!

My R&R's first round of notes was more like a broad strokes edit letter, then got less detailed after that. Vague language on the agent's part wasn't helpful.

Thanks Sparverius! Your notes got less detailed? :chair

I want this to be DONE, but don't want to send without feeling as sure as I can that I've done as much as I can to respond to her concerns.
 

VeryBigBeard

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Thanks, Anna!

Basically, playing down one aspect of the plot and playing up another. Kind of funny, after all my barely have a plot stories, my attempt to focus on plot has = too much plot. :roll:

Nope, on betas who read the last version that are available to read this one. Timing is everything, and at the moment, mine sucks.

'Tis life, the universe, and everything.

You do one thing, turns out they want another.

FWIW (not much), I see this kind of thing a lot in agent interviews, where an R&R is about emphasizing something a little bit more, often based on the market knowledge an agent might have. If you think the agent is legit and would be a great fit, what's the worst that could happen? They say no, it's no skin off your back. They say yes, you move onto a call and have a more detailed conversation.

Some agents will do an R&R because they want to make sure you are capable of good revisions before they offer. Getting answers from her is great though, you don't want to be working based on notes that are too vague! Congrats on the interest!!

My R&R's first round of notes was more like a broad strokes edit letter, then got less detailed after that. Vague language on the agent's part wasn't helpful.

I confess that I don't love this kind of practice. I get why it happens, and I'd do it in the right circumstances, but those are fairly narrow circumstances, I guess?

I feel a bit the same way when, in my other walk of life, some game studio I'm applying to work at sends me back a writing test that, upon closer inspections, will take me the better part of three weeks to complete to a high standard. I get why the test exists--they're testing deadlines and writing to brief, which are both critical skills--if I want the job, I do my best, but it's three weeks of time I'll never be paid for. (It doesn't help that some less-than-scrupulous studios have been known to reject the application and then plug the test text straight into the game anyway.)

It comes down to what you want the book to be. If the R&R goes in some direction you don't like, don't bother with it--it's wasted time and a strong sign the agent might not be a great fit. Or maybe you see exactly what she's saying, you see an opportunity in the MS you didn't before, and you go for it.

Just don't let the hope of an R&R pull you into a partnership that's not going to work for you. Agent/author fit is really, really important. You need to have a similar vision for the book, and for your career.
 

ap123

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'Tis life, the universe, and everything.

You do one thing, turns out they want another.

FWIW (not much), I see this kind of thing a lot in agent interviews, where an R&R is about emphasizing something a little bit more, often based on the market knowledge an agent might have. If you think the agent is legit and would be a great fit, what's the worst that could happen? They say no, it's no skin off your back. They say yes, you move onto a call and have a more detailed conversation.



I confess that I don't love this kind of practice. I get why it happens, and I'd do it in the right circumstances, but those are fairly narrow circumstances, I guess?

I feel a bit the same way when, in my other walk of life, some game studio I'm applying to work at sends me back a writing test that, upon closer inspections, will take me the better part of three weeks to complete to a high standard. I get why the test exists--they're testing deadlines and writing to brief, which are both critical skills--if I want the job, I do my best, but it's three weeks of time I'll never be paid for. (It doesn't help that some less-than-scrupulous studios have been known to reject the application and then plug the test text straight into the game anyway.)

It comes down to what you want the book to be. If the R&R goes in some direction you don't like, don't bother with it--it's wasted time and a strong sign the agent might not be a great fit. Or maybe you see exactly what she's saying, you see an opportunity in the MS you didn't before, and you go for it.

Just don't let the hope of an R&R pull you into a partnership that's not going to work for you. Agent/author fit is really, really important. You need to have a similar vision for the book, and for your career.

Thank you, Very Big Beard!

The agent is new to building her list, but not new to the agency, and it is a very legit, long established agency. From our email interactions I've liked what she's had to say, her enthusiasm--and of course, that she's been communicative.

I'm open to revisions, and I think what she wants is fine re my ideas of the story/what it is, I just want to get it right, so one way or the other, I can move forward.
 

mccardey

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The agent is new to building her list, but not new to the agency, and it is a very legit, long established agency. From our email interactions I've liked what she's had to say, her enthusiasm--and of course, that she's been communicative.

I'm open to revisions, and I think what she wants is fine re my ideas of the story/what it is, I just want to get it right, so one way or the other, I can move forward.
There's nothing wrong with sending it to her and mentioning in your note that you hope you've taken it in the right direction. Now that you're having communication with her, you'll have a little more leeway than a cold query gives. Ask her if this is more the kind of thing she was thinking of.

Very, very much good luck with it!!!
 

ap123

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There's nothing wrong with sending it to her and mentioning in your note that you hope you've taken it in the right direction. Now that you're having communication with her, you'll have a little more leeway than a cold query gives. Ask her if this is more the kind of thing she was thinking of.

Very, very much good luck with it!!!

Perfect, thank you!
 

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I'll give you my experience with R&R, though I'm afraid this won't cheer you. I had one from an agent, who was complimentary, and also her revision suggestions were very clear (no vague stuff). Everything was quite doable except one major suggestion - and it was just a suggestion, not a mandate - that I change it from several POVs to one POV. I did most everything except that. I'll spare you the agonizing that went into the decision. She rejected the second version with some kind words, but didn't say why she was rejecting.

A year later, I had the version she'd probably wanted all along - a one POV version. I didn't do that for HER, but because I'd eventually decided on my own that was the way to go. I requeried, and again she wanted to see it. This time I had done 99% of her original suggestions.

She rejected with very kind words and advice, but said she felt she couldn't sell it to Big 5 as it didn't fit neatly into genre categories. Which..... she'd known all along. So, yeah, that was a bit odd.

Onward, and I hope your experience turns out better. I actually sort of feel like agents shouldn't give R&Rs unless there is a REAL desire and intent to rep the author. Unfortunately, I don't feel that is always the case, given how many rejects I've seen after authors follow the R&R to the T.

Good luck!
 

ap123

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I'll give you my experience with R&R, though I'm afraid this won't cheer you. I had one from an agent, who was complimentary, and also her revision suggestions were very clear (no vague stuff). Everything was quite doable except one major suggestion - and it was just a suggestion, not a mandate - that I change it from several POVs to one POV. I did most everything except that. I'll spare you the agonizing that went into the decision. She rejected the second version with some kind words, but didn't say why she was rejecting.

A year later, I had the version she'd probably wanted all along - a one POV version. I didn't do that for HER, but because I'd eventually decided on my own that was the way to go. I requeried, and again she wanted to see it. This time I had done 99% of her original suggestions.

She rejected with very kind words and advice, but said she felt she couldn't sell it to Big 5 as it didn't fit neatly into genre categories. Which..... she'd known all along. So, yeah, that was a bit odd.

Onward, and I hope your experience turns out better. I actually sort of feel like agents shouldn't give R&Rs unless there is a REAL desire and intent to rep the author. Unfortunately, I don't feel that is always the case, given how many rejects I've seen after authors follow the R&R to the T.

Good luck!

Thank you Kensi99. I appreciate the honesty, and while this situation is new to me, I've been at this long enough to have seen quite a few similar stories.

I do wonder how much marketability/salability fits into my scenario, as this mss also blurs genre boundaries a bit.

*I really appreciate all who are taking time to reply, it's helping to get my wheels turning.
 

Belle_91

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I hit the send button on my R&R from an agent last Wednesday. I'm so nervous. I already know there aren't any statistics really on this, but I thought I'd ask: how likely is it to get an offer from an R&R? Someone posted that they actually got a rejection from this same agency with an R&R, and I've started knawing at my nails and second guessing everything.
 

ap123

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I looked this up when I was waiting, I can't remember the stats I found but it still isn't likely. Odds are better than from the original query, but still lower than I'd hoped. (Mine turned into another R&R)
 

Belle_91

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At least you get another chance. It sounds like they must really like you to not reject you outright. They're giving you another chance. I think that's promising.

For those wondering, I found this https://www.authoraccelerator.com/blog/2016/12/29/the-dreaded-rr

It broke down the statistics, from a Twitter poll mind you. It came to the conclusion that only 25% of people get an offer from their R&Rs. However, that's better than the 99% of rejection you get just based off querying.

I'm trying to think positively.
 

Earthling

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My R&R with a publisher turned into a rejection and, to be honest, by that point I was glad to close it out and then I got a better deal anyway. I'd realised I wasn't a good fit in that editor, and she wanted my book to be something else - something I had no interest in writing. One door closes, another opens.

Keep us updated!
 

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I got an offer from the agent R&R I did, but ended up choosing a different agent. Currently in the middle of an R&R for an editor… we'll see how that goes.
 

Belle_91

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So you can submit to other agents after you’ve turned in your revised version to the person offering the R&R?
 

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So you can submit to other agents after you’ve turned in your revised version to the person offering the R&R?

Unless they asked for an exclusive and you agreed to it, you can keep querying even while working on an R&R and submitting it. It's just a matter of whether you want to hedge your bets and not assume the R&R is a done deal, or you have a good feeling about it and think it would be a waste of time to keep querying.
 

Tarley

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I actually sort of feel like agents shouldn't give R&Rs unless there is a REAL desire and intent to rep the author. Unfortunately, I don't feel that is always the case, given how many rejects I've seen after authors follow the R&R to the T.

Just my 2 cents. I've done two R&R's. First one I mucked up horribly - I didn't really like the agent's suggestions or the direction she wanted my story to go in. But she was an agent I'd have cut off my own arm to be repped by, figured she knows what will sell and so I basically re-wrote my novel. She rejected it along with some kind words.

With my second R&R the agent was (or so it seemed...) super excited about my novel and I took a couple months, made the changes, and send it off. Six months and two nudges later I've had radio silence. I think 'no response is a no' is a little brutal when an agent asks to see revisions and a writer takes the time to make those changes.

I thought R&R literally meant you're almost there, but now I'm not so sure. At this point, I don't think I ever do another R&R.
 

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I've had two R&Rs in my life (actually, I've had loads, but I'll explain that).

One was from an agent that thought my adult fantasy required a bit more world-building (they said sometimes I need to worry less about info dumping and just tell the reader straight up) and they also thought one of my POVs should be cut, as he didn't measure up to the others. It was absolutely great advice, very kindly worded, and I sat on it for a while but never ultimately made the changes as I couldn't figure how to replace the POV that was a solid 1/3 of the book—and they no longer work as an agent now! So if I didn't make the changes, I sadly couldn't resubmit to them.

The other was on another manuscript, an R&R that turned into another R&R and then another and... quite a few, all different things. I think the agent liked me & the book but kept trying to make it more and more sellable but in the end, I wish they had just rejected and I ended up respectfully declining to do yet another R&R on around the fifth time because it was so much for no offer and the book was nothing like what it had started out as. It definitely taught me a lot about revising and editing though, so there's that!
 

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Just found this thread and wanted to thank everyone who shared their experiences. I've recently received a quite extensive R&R—the agent said she loved my book but wasn't sure how to sell it, so she suggested some major premise changes that meant basically rewriting the entire story. I've been feeling more than a little trepidation at the thought of doing such extensive rewrites only to possibly get rejected in the end, and yet from our phone call the agent seemed really lovely and like a wonderful person to work with. It's a tough situation for sure.