When to stop revising, prior to submission

jmurray2112 said:

I'm sure this is a perennial question here. I did do a search, looking to see if there was anything recent or active, but didn't find anything. But then again, I'm still figuring this place out.
I completed my first full length novel about two years ago, and have done four revisions since. Each subsequent revision has yielded fewer changes, and the last was pretty much "find the misspellings and grammatical errors you didn't catch the first three times".
I feel like I've ticked the boxes. I let time pass between each one. I've gotten feedback from a few beta readers. I've started other projects. Each time I revise, I ask myself if I have more to say in this particular arc, and find that after this last, I don't.
The reason I decided to ask the question of you all anyway is that you are clever folk, and many of you are much further down this road than I am. I realize that IF I submit, and IF there is interest, that there will be others telling me what to change, but that's DTR.
What are your thoughts? How do you decide when you're done?

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Sounds like you're on the right track. If this is your first time at it, I'd let it sit for a couple of weeks, read it again and then start running it past some betas - not family or friends.

You don't have to do the beta stage but it works for a lot of people and it's free. (There's also the share-your-work section here, if you want people to give you some opinions on excerpt from the WiP.)

Good luck!

If you've had feedback from betas and you're just fiddling, I would start working on the query letter, and eventually put that up in QLH. Sometimes query letters turn up other issues in the books themselves, but if they don't, and you get to the end of that and having a solid query, then send out a small batch of 10-12 queries.

If you get no requests from the first batch of queries, ie not even partials, immediately STOP querying and reassess the letter/opening pages again.

jmurray2112 said:

I feel like I've ticked the boxes. I let time pass between each one. I've gotten feedback from a few beta readers.

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How did I miss that? Must have been pre-coffee

Seconding Harlequin's advice, work on your query. It's important, necessary, often more time consuming than you think it'll be, and working on the query can end up highlighting inconsistencies in the mss itself.

I'd also add that in addition to working on the query, write a synopsis or two. This will help you see some plot holes or things that may need addressed. (Lots of places want a synopsis anyway, might as well get it done.)

Harlequin said:

If you get no requests from the first batch of queries, ie not even partials, immediately STOP querying and reassess the letter/opening pages again.

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Repeating this for the folks in the back. I wish I had read this before querying. I burned through too many agents before encountering this advice.

carrie_ann said:

Repeating this for the folks in the back. I wish I had read this before querying. I burned through too many agents before encountering this advice.

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IMO, it depends. There are so many variables, ie: what genre and/or age group is being queried, how many queries were in that first batch, how long it's been since you sent that first batch (sure, when you're reading other people's threads, it can feel requests always come within a week if they're going to come, but that isn't always the case at all).

I would say always get eyes other than your own (and friends/family) before sending any query and opening pages. Sometimes reworking the query and or opening can make all the difference, but it isn't always the answer, or not the answer within the first month of querying.

In other words, if you're querying, say, lit fic, you should expect the request rate to be lower than if you're querying a genre that's currently hot. If you've got a vampire novel during a period where vampires are hot, you can expect faster--and a higher percentage of requests--than if you're querying a vampire novel when the market has recently been flooded with them, even if your query and opening are fab.

No question, craft, story, and voice in your pages and in your query are a large percentage of what's being focused on, but there's also a certain percentage that's umm, practicality? business? market? and a generous dose of patience

Several years back there were a few really interesting threads looking at this question, and I think they still apply. A quick search found this one.

That's an interesting thread, thank you. I'll read it more in-depth a little later.

I completely agree there are so many variables, all those you mentioned and- luck. And every individual's experience will be different and different still with different projects.

Patience is important, but I wish I had exercised more prior to extended querying. I was so excited to submit, I rushed. I was hasty and naive. I did heaps of agent research, made a spreadsheet, picked out the best fits and sent poor queries. And instead of stopping after x rejections or no responses and addressing my query I sent more.

Since I've learned

ap123 said:

Seconding Harlequin's advice, work on your query. It's important, necessary, often more time consuming than you think it'll be, and working on the query can end up highlighting inconsistencies in the mss itself.

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(my bold) and working on my query has led to a re-write.

For me, I think I was ready to query for the experience of it and for what I learned through the process. I just wish I had paused sooner. I don't regret agents 1-10, it's 11-35 I question now and 36-40 was just silly, stubborn and in some ways lazy because ...

ap123 said:

often more time consuming than you think it'll be

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....

The OP has already exercised more patience than me by asking. These boards are full of wise members and advice. I also wish I'd have spent more time here, something the OP has on me. I found this forum in the midst of agent research and didn't poke around beyond Bewares until it was too late.

Everybody has their own path and even then unfortunately "It's not a one-query-fits-all world" (Michael Diamond via twitter), but OP- GOOD LUCK! In any event your manuscript is an accomplishment and querying is hard and takes tons of courage.

I've heard lots of people saying that they always feel like there are small things they could adjust here and there, and they just have to get to a point where they say 'stop' and either query it or send it to their agent, depending on where they are in their publishing journey. It sounds like you're reaching a good stopping place, and as you say, if there's interest, there will be more suggestions of edits to come. Working on the query letter sounds like a good plan for you at this stage.