Gaslighting America, Why We Love It When Trump Lies to Us; by Amanda Carpenter.

MaeZe · Oct 7, 2018

Goodreads: Gaslighting America, Why We Love It When Trump Lies to Us; by Amanda B Carpenter.

I got this book thinking it was going to be about people that fall for the Trump con job. And after a couple chapters I thought maybe it was just a review of what happened from the 2016 election to present and I almost put it down.

But then I kept reading.

I know this stuff as do most of you I would guess. But putting it together step by step, in Carpenter's in-depth analysis of Trump's propaganda techniques was still eye-opening. [Sorry, preachy mode] Everyone needs to read this book, even if you already understand his particular propaganda messages. I consider myself well versed in propaganda and marketing but by the time I finished the book I had a different view of the details on how Trump works.

I don't know if he simply does it naturally or if it was some sort of genius scheme by Kellyanne Conway (haven't seen any better propagandist than her on his team), but there is a lot more to the finer points of Trump's con game than I realized. Carpenter explains in great detail step by step how Trump eliminated the GOP candidates one by one starting with JEB! and moving next to Rubio and Cruz.

The lies that Trump seemed to pull out of his ass were well planned. Some of this is more obvious, like starting with "people are saying" through to his talking head minions hitting all the news talk shows. But he repeated the same half dozen steps in the gaslighting over and over.

And now that he's POTUS he's refined the art of getting the public to dismiss anything negative about him. The news cycles past one scandal after another. If the public doesn't wise up, Mueller's report is going to be defanged before it hits the news stands.

This guy is a genius con even if he's ignorant about so many other things. The more his con is exposed the more vaccinated we'll be against it. I hope more people read this book, especially people in the mainstream media pick. They are the most conned of all of us.

Roxxsmom · Oct 7, 2018

One thing that people (including myself) have gone back and forth about since the beginning of the "Trump phenomenon" is whether he is the dumbest, least articulate, and most illiterate and ignorant person to ever grace the oval office, or if the persona he presents (and the issues he embraces) is actually a very calculated and deliberate attempt to resonate with the lowest common denominator.

MaeZe · Oct 7, 2018

I favored the former until I read the book. Now I'm not so sure it isn't the latter. Maybe like a savant, an accidental genius at one thing, while quite challenged intellectually at everything else.

Brightdreamer · Oct 7, 2018

MaeZe said:
I favored the former until I read the book. Now I'm not so sure it isn't the latter. Maybe like a savant, an accidental genius at one thing, while quite challenged intellectually at everything else.

My gut suspects something like a savant, a cunning reptile brain that happens to be very good at one thing but isn't particularly intelligent (or far-sighted) elsewhere.

Sounds like an important, if unsettling, book...

Kjbartolotta · Oct 7, 2018

I suppose cons like this can go on for years, the House of Kim has been running one for three generations, but it always has to come down to levering the ever-diminishing number of people who believe the con against the rest of those that don't. We seem to be stuck in a bad phase of that. But I think there's something to be said for the fact that people loved being fooled when they know they're being fooled. (And thank you for the recc

)

MaeZe · Oct 7, 2018

For the record, the book never got to much of anything about people loving to be fooled. The title wasn't the best match for the book. It's what I meant about almost quitting partway through. Glad I didn't because it was much more informative describing Trump's pattern of propaganda techniques. What good does it do us to think it's all about that basket of deplorables?

Just think if a candidate puts up a big poster or whiteboard listing the steps Trump goes through from "people are saying" to the media repeating the lie? It could have the effect of Christie telling Rubio, "There's that 25 second memorized speech again."

That's the only way to defeat this kind of propaganda, expose it.

blacbird · Oct 7, 2018

MaeZe said:
This guy is a genius con even if he's ignorant about so many other things.

True dat. Bone Spurs' entire life has been built upon that foundation. He measures himself not by what he can accomplish, but by what he can get away with, how many people he can put one over on. His ignorance on so many factual matters is no accident; it's wilful, because such things don't matter in his universe.

caw

MaeZe · Oct 7, 2018

blacbird said:
... it's wilful, because such things don't matter in his universe.

caw

That is an excellent observation.

cbenoi1 · Oct 8, 2018

MaeZe said:
I hope more people read this book, especially people in the mainstream media pick. They are the most conned of all of us.

Any and all attempts to analyze Trump in terms of political philosophy or strategy will end nowhere. He's not that sort of animal.

Trump is a narcissist. Period. The real cons in this story are those who manipulate Trump into making (bad) decisions that make him look good.

Trump reverted Obama's work, not because he's a Republican hardliner but because Obama mocked him and that made him look bad.
Trump associated with the bigots, the racists, and the supremacists, not because he bathed in their twisted philosophy but because they adored him like a god.
Trump entered into trade wars, not because they made economic sense (hint: they don't) but because they made him look like a winner.
Trump engages in Twitter storms one after another, not because he masters propaganda but to stomp on anyone and anything that makes him look bad.
And finally, Trump constituted his cabinet from a basket of dubious characters, not on their personal qualities for the positions but from their unconditional allegiance to him.

-cb

Roxxsmom · Oct 8, 2018

cbenoi1 said:
Any and all attempts to analyze Trump in terms of political philosophy or strategy will end nowhere. He's not that sort of animal.

Trump is a narcissist. Period. The real cons in this story are those who manipulate Trump into making (bad) decisions that make him look good.

Trump reverted Obama's work, not because he's a Republican hardliner but because Obama mocked him and that made him look bad.
Trump associated with the bigots, the racists, and the supremacists, not because he bathed in their twisted philosophy but because they adored him like a god.
Trump entered into trade wars, not because they made economic sense (hint: they don't) but because they made him look like a winner.
Trump engages in Twitter storms one after another, not because he masters propaganda but to stomp on anyone and anything that makes him look bad.
And finally, Trump constituted his cabinet from a basket of dubious characters, not on their personal qualities for the positions but from their unconditional allegiance to him.

-cb

This has been my take overall too.

And the worship of Trump by people who aren't conscious bigots themselves (for all they are clearly not all that fussed by bigotry either) may be a consequence of our society's obsession with "winning." They see him as a winner because he is a billionaire and reality TV star, first off, but also because of his cruelty, bullying, and inability to hold back. His whole shtick on The Apprentice was a bullying boss who gleefully "fired" employees/contestants who "didn't make the cut." Many equate winning with destroying one's opponent. Winners don't have to be gracious, kind or tactful. Graciousness, kindness and tact are "weak."

Ever since all the adoring media coverage of the all-pro "Dream Team" that crushed other countries' basketball teams, I've realized Americans love a blow out. We don't really crave fair fights or hard-fought victories nearly as much as we like winners who crush their opponents. Our mainstream culture idolizes bullies, in other words.

Even the rhetoric surrounding the Democratic attempt to take back Congress isn't framed in terms of the issues, or in terms of what is at stake, but in terms of a "blue wave." We're focused on what victory looks and feels like, not what it actually means.

MaeZe · Oct 8, 2018

cbenoi1 said:
Any and all attempts to analyze Trump in terms of political philosophy or strategy will end nowhere. He's not that sort of animal.

Trump is a narcissist. Period. The real cons in this story are those who manipulate Trump into making (bad) decisions that make him look good.

Trump reverted Obama's work, not because he's a Republican hardliner but because Obama mocked him and that made him look bad.
Trump associated with the bigots, the racists, and the supremacists, not because he bathed in their twisted philosophy but because they adored him like a god.
Trump entered into trade wars, not because they made economic sense (hint: they don't) but because they made him look like a winner.
Trump engages in Twitter storms one after another, not because he masters propaganda but to stomp on anyone and anything that makes him look bad.
And finally, Trump constituted his cabinet from a basket of dubious characters, not on their personal qualities for the positions but from their unconditional allegiance to him.

-cb

I take it you haven't read the book. It's not about who Trump is. It's about a step by step repeating daily pattern that is the propaganda technique he is using. And while most of us can spot what he's doing, the book puts it all together in a bigger well planned scheme.

cbenoi1 · Oct 8, 2018

MaeZe said:
I take it you haven't read the book.

I don't have to. Here is your assessment:

> It's about a step by step repeating daily pattern that is the propaganda technique he is using.

A propaganda technique? From a man with a reputation of never following a script and making snap decisions based on whom he last talked to?

> And now that he's POTUS he's refined the art of getting the public to dismiss anything negative about him.

Refined the art?

> The lies that Trump seemed to pull out of his ass were well planned.

Well planned?

There is no genius in this man. Trump knee-jerk reacts to his deep sense of insecurity. He put himself in a position in which he is criticized all the time; it's part of the job description but it gnaws at his insecurity. It's a permanent distress. So when it reaches a critical level Trump goes on a binge: by golfing with his Fox Friends or by attending a rally in which he indulges himself in past glory.

What Trump does instinctively to pamper his insecurity matches elements of mass brainwashing - ex: do not believe the mainstream media (message control), simple solutions to complex problems(MAGA, or a call to action for even the most simple-minded), the outsiders are the cause of our demise (a fall guy for every and all problems) - which only accelerated a social process that has been in motion for some time.

The brain behind this scheme is NOT in the White House.

-cb

MaeZe · Oct 8, 2018

cbenoi1 said:
I don't have to. Here is your assessment:

> It's about a step by step repeating daily pattern that is the propaganda technique he is using.

A propaganda technique? From a man with a reputation of never following a script and making snap decisions based on whom he last talked to?

Yes, believe it or not.

cbenoi1 said:
> And now that he's POTUS he's refined the art of getting the public to dismiss anything negative about him.

Refined the art?

Not much changed before and after the election.

cbenoi1 said:
I> The lies that Trump seemed to pull out of his ass were well planned.

Well planned?

There is no genius in this man. Trump knee-jerk reacts to his deep sense of insecurity. He put himself in a position in which he is criticized all the time; it's part of the job description but it gnaws at his insecurity. It's a permanent distress. So when it reaches a critical level Trump goes golfing with his Fox Friends or goes to a rally in which he indulges himself in past glory.

What Trump does instinctively to pamper his insecurity matches elements of mass brainwashing - ex: do not believe the mainstream media, simple solutions to complex problems, the outsiders are the cause of our demise - which only accelerated a social process that has been in motion for some time.

One would think so. After seeing the detailed steps in the plan, I have refined my view.

cbenoi1 said:
IThe brain behind this scheme is NOT in the White House.

-cb

That's very possible. I would not be surprised to find Conway took a natural con artist and helped him refine his techniques.

MaeZe · Oct 8, 2018

The Kirkis Review has a decent description of the book.

The author uses her media knowledge and keen insight to try to apply some logic to the ghastly conduct of Donald Trump. Her preferred label is “gaslighting,” a once-antiquated term for a specific form of manipulation intended to make a targeted group question their memory, perception, and sanity. Carpenter outlines the steps in Trump’s approach, which include taking a strong (if often ill-considered) stance on a hot-button political issue or scandal, casting the issue into the public realm (“People say…”), creating suspense (“We’ll see or you’ll find out”), discrediting the opponent (“Sad!”), and declaring victory. The author then applies this logic to a variety of Trump targets: Cruz, Jeb Bush, the media, women, and even Carpenter herself, who got the gaslighting treatment from the candidate on live TV. That’s not to mention the candidate’s treatment of his opponent Hillary Clinton, which turned out to be a bulletproof way to attack her through a strategy heavily reliant on a willingness to lie at will and an absolute lack of shame.

The ominous conclusion in the book is noted in the review:

Carpenter’s analysis is clearly written and thankfully light on partisan politics, and she offers concise and proactive advice for both citizens and candidates on how to “fireproof” themselves against the president’s gaslighting. Toward the end, Carpenter comes to some depressing conclusions: “There is no way, short of a straitjacket, ball gag, and padded room, that Trump is giving up the power and influence he has gained since becoming president.”

cbenoi1 · Oct 8, 2018

> Carpenter outlines the steps in Trump’s approach, which include
> taking a strong (if often ill-considered) stance on a hot-button
> political issue or scandal,

President Trump, trying to please the crowd only to find out half is up in arms, and so he flips the other way hoping to please the other half, then finds out it also bombs. It's nothing more than a trial-and-error process with the aim of maximizing admiration. Narcissism at work. Move along.

> casting the issue into the public realm (“People say…”),

Let's take a vote and see where the wind blows. Same as above, but framed in a way that avoids costly libel cases. That's experience with lawyers and plenty of court cases gets you.

> creating suspense (“We’ll see or you’ll find out”),

The clueless managing expectations - as a defense mechanism to shield his insecurity - meets the audience ratings of real-time reality TV. It's all about Him, remember?

> discrediting the opponent (“Sad!”), and declaring victory.

Lying, cheating, and bullying. Blunt yet simple weapons in the narcissist's arsenal.

> Toward the end, Carpenter comes to some depressing conclusions: “There is no way, short
> of a straitjacket, ball gag, and padded room, that Trump is giving up the power and influence
> he has gained since becoming president.”

How about attacking his insecurity on a permanent basis? For two-three weeks Avenatti was doing a pretty good job pissing Trump off and sidetracking him. With it came an intense period of daily WH clusterfucks. Poor Trumpie could not sleep at night, with tweets in the wee hours as proof. It also coincided with an increase in his golfing and rallying events. Then it all stopped because of Cohen. The FBI put Avenatti's quest on hold.

Someone needs to pick up that ball and run with it. Every. Day. For weeks on end.

-cb

MaeZe · Oct 8, 2018

cbenoi1 said:
> Carpenter outlines the steps in Trump’s approach, which include
> taking a strong (if often ill-considered) stance on a hot-button
> political issue or scandal,

President Trump, trying to please the crowd only to find out half is up in arms, and so he flips the other way hoping to please the other half, then finds out it also bombs. It's nothing more than a trial-and-error process with the aim of maximizing admiration. Narcissism at work. Move along.

> casting the issue into the public realm (“People say…”),

Let's take a vote and see where the wind blows. Same as above, but framed in a way that avoids costly libel cases. That's experience with lawyers and plenty of court cases gets you.

> creating suspense (“We’ll see or you’ll find out”),

The clueless managing expectations - as a defense mechanism to shield his insecurity - meets the audience ratings of real-time reality TV. It's all about Him, remember?

> discrediting the opponent (“Sad!”), and declaring victory.

Lying, cheating, and bullying. Blunt yet simple weapons in the narcissist's arsenal.

> Toward the end, Carpenter comes to some depressing conclusions: “There is no way, short
> of a straitjacket, ball gag, and padded room, that Trump is giving up the power and influence
> he has gained since becoming president.”

How about attacking his insecurity on a permanent basis? For two-three weeks Avenatti was doing a pretty good job pissing Trump off and sidetracking him. With it came an intense period of daily WH clusterfucks. Poor Trumpie could not sleep at night, with tweets in the wee hours as proof. It also coincided with an increase in his golfing and rallying events. Then it all stopped because of Cohen. The FBI put Avenatti's quest on hold.

Someone needs to pick up that ball and run with it. Every. Day. For weeks on end.

-cb

He's very good at reaching denial after any version of attack on his ego. Not saying he doesn't suffer, mind you.

I hope someone or more than one does keep drilling down on Trump.

I also think some people can be immunized to propaganda when it is exposed.

A win-win.

blacbird · Oct 8, 2018

cbenoi1 said:
President Trump, trying to please the crowd only to find out half is up in arms, and so he flips the other way hoping to please the other half,

????? This is absolutely counter to the way he works, and thinks. Trump requires enemies he can conquer. He's all about winning, and to satisfy that craving requires somebody losing. He makes no effort to "flip the other way". Totally contrary to his inner nature. So I'm not quite sure what your point is here.

caw

Alpha Echo · Oct 8, 2018

MaeZe, thank you for the recommendation. I just ordered this book along with Woodword’s book. I’ll come back after reading...

cbenoi1 · Oct 9, 2018

blacbird said:
Trump requires enemies he can conquer. He's all about winning, and to satisfy that craving requires somebody losing.

No, and not exactly. Trump would be a happy camper if everyone adulated him. Forever.

Donald Trump thinks not clapping for him is 'treasonous' ( link )

Trump jokes he wants his 'people' to 'sit up at attention' when he speaks, like North Koreans do with Kim Jong Un ( link )

This may be the scariest thing Donald Trump has said as president ( link )

They become enemies when they don't. Or do not bend to his will. That's when the bullying starts.

Want to see Trump go bonkers for weeks on end? Build a large golden statue of Fred Trump in the middle of Times Square with the caption "Best. Real-Estate. Developer. Ever."

-cb

Larry M · Oct 9, 2018

MaeZe said:
... (haven't seen any better propagandist than her [Conway] on his team), but there is a lot more to the finer points of Trump's con game than I realized...

cbenoi1 said:
...The brain behind this scheme is NOT in the White House.

-cb

There is one who is better at it than Conway, and that person IS in the White House:

Stephen Miller.

Trump’s Right-Hand Troll - McKay Coppins, The Atlantic.

cbenoi1 · Oct 9, 2018

I was thinking of McConnell and Bannon, but Miller fits the bill also.

-cb

cornflake · Oct 9, 2018

Sorry, no.

The idea that there's any kind of higher-level planning, plotting, analysis, forethought, anything, going on in Trump's brain is, to me, like when people ascribe complex manipulation techniques to newborn infants.

"She's crying right after you put her down just to fuck with you."

He has no fucking idea what's going on. He's too dumb to understand what's going on, and too dumb to be curious enough to care. He just says shit. He's operating on way too low a level for anything suggested, imo, and it's a desperate attempt at wish fulfillment (the nuclear codes are not actually in the hands of an ignorant, stupid toddler, that can't be -- he's really manipulating people and it's all been this down-low plan!) imo.

Tazlima · Oct 9, 2018

cornflake said:
Sorry, no.

The idea that there's any kind of higher-level planning, plotting, analysis, forethought, anything, going on in Trump's brain is, to me, like when people ascribe complex manipulation techniques to newborn infants.

"She's crying right after you put her down just to fuck with you."

He has no fucking idea what's going on. He's too dumb to understand what's going on, and too dumb to be curious enough to care. He just says shit. He's operating on way too low a level for anything suggested, imo, and it's a desperate attempt at wish fulfillment (the nuclear codes are not actually in the hands of an ignorant, stupid toddler, that can't be -- he's really manipulating people and it's all been this down-low plan!) imo.

This.

It's comforting to think there's some great mastermind at work, that there's a method to the madness, because if that's true, then there's hope. Someone with a method can be reasoned with. The alternative is just plain old madness... unpredictable, uncontrollable, un-understandable madness. And that's what we're dealing with here.

The only thought that goes into his behavior is "will doing this get me what I want?" In that way, that's also like a baby crying - a baby's cry being custom-designed for one sole purpose - to be so obnoxious and impossible to ignore that people will do literally anything to make it stop. He may have stumbled across some tried-and-true psychological manipulation techniques in his attempts to get what he wants, but there's no rational thought behind it. He just knows it works.

As others have pointed out, recognizing the manipulation can help people resist it. At the same time, though, that slight protection likely won't do them much good if it makes them take risks they might otherwise have avoided. Look at Timothy Treadwell (aka the Grizzley Man). He knew a lot about bears - so much that he felt comfortable hanging around in their presence. And eventually he was killed and eaten by those same bears, because while a little knowledge can help keep people safe, thinking that familiarity with something dangerous negates that element of danger is a recipe for disaster.

Assuming that understanding Trump's methods will keep us safe is liable to have a similar effect. How many people have thought that because they understood what he was doing, they could manipulate him to their own ends, or at least maneuver safely within his range? And all of them have discovered the hard way what any child could tell you, that bears have teeth and claws and the instinctive drive to use them. Trump may be an idiot, but he's a dangerous idiot. As they say, "fools rush in where wise men fear to tread."

Roxxsmom · Oct 9, 2018

Hmm, the debate continues over whether Trump is capable of advance planning and insight learning, or whether he is (in essence) a rat in a Skinner puzzle box, randomly pressing levers and flipping switches to obtain short-term reinforcement.

Either way he (and his supporters) are doing a lot of harm to our country and system of government. However, he isn't the one who started us down the path we're on. Bumbling idiot or evil genius, he's taking advantage of a movement that has been decades in the making.

Gaslighting America, Why We Love It When Trump Lies to Us; by Amanda Carpenter.

MaeZe

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido

MaeZe

Brightdreamer

Just Another Lazy Perfectionist

Kjbartolotta

Potentially has/is dog

MaeZe

blacbird

MaeZe

cbenoi1

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido

MaeZe

cbenoi1

MaeZe

MaeZe

cbenoi1

MaeZe

blacbird

Alpha Echo

I should be writing.

cbenoi1

Larry M

cbenoi1

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

Tazlima

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido