Using action as your dialogue tag

Those two constructions do not say the same thing. The first shows a sequential action: speech, action, speech. The second shows a simultaneous action: speech as action is happening.

So which do you want to convey?

caw

First, a bit of punctuation correction:

BurntPieCrust said:

"I am saying a thing." She did something. "I am saying another thing."

vs.

"I am saying something," she said as she did a thing. "I say more things."

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Shrug. Do whatever fits your voice and the rhythm of the sentence. There's no best practice, only personal preference.

BurntPieCrust said:

I’m in agreement with frank’s shrugging, but unfortunately for a novice, you can never be too sure when you’re common sense is actually sensical.

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Fair enough. Generally I find the best thing to do when you're uncertain of things like this is to see how other authors handle it. Flip through some of your favourite recent books (in various genres) and check out the tagging.

Focus on the dialogue rather than trying to force action tags into it.

Action tags - if used - should aid comprehension/interpretation of the dialogue.

BurntPieCrust said:

"I am saying a thing,” she said. She did something. "I am saying another thing."

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In that case, you probably don't need "she said." That's what you call double-tagging.

For me, it's a pacing thing. Dialogue tags add a beat, which you may or may not want.

nickj47 said:

For me, it's a pacing thing. Dialogue tags add a beat, which you may or may not want.

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Yes, and there are times I don't want a beat, but then I end up with 7 or 8 lines of dialogue in a row, and it ventures into talking-heads territory. It's such a fine balance. It can be frustrating sometimes!

Toto Too said:

Yes, and there are times I don't want a beat, but then I end up with 7 or 8 lines of dialogue in a row, and it ventures into talking-heads territory. It's such a fine balance. It can be frustrating sometimes!

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You can pace your dialogue using more than just routine tags or beats. Internals--they can function as a gloss to the dialogue, either to enhance it or undermine it, depending on what the character is thinking. Body language--not stock phrases like "she smiled" or "he arched an eyebrow" (and why is it always just one? How many people can actually do that?), but something fresh and meaningful. Description--visuals, sounds, smells, textures, and tastes, though always keeping in mind what the viewpoint character would be aware of at that moment. Action--what are the characters doing while talking? Not everyone has a conversation over coffee and bagels.

BethS said:

You can pace your dialogue using more than just routine tags or beats. Internals--they can function as a gloss to the dialogue, either to enhance it or undermine it, depending on what the character is thinking. Body language--not stock phrases like "she smiled" or "he arched an eyebrow" (and what is it always just one? How many people can actually do that?), but something fresh and meaningful. Description--visuals, sounds, smells, textures, and tastes, though always keeping in mind what the viewpoint character would be aware of at that moment. Action--what are the characters doing while talking? Not everyone has a conversation over coffee and bagels.

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Thank you Beth, that helps a lot. It still requires some creativity or imagination though. "She smiled" is often the first and only thing that comes to mind when I'm writing dialogue. After a few twirls of the hair and fiddling with fingers, I pretty much run out. I realize now why a lot of literary characters are smokers. It's strange, in some ways I have a vivid imagination, but in others, like in the little ways we communicate, not so much. Maybe it's an introversion thing. Or maybe that's just a lazy excuse, but I'm not much at interpersonal communication (not saying that's the defining characteristic of introversion!).

The Internals you mentioned are my favorite, and I'm trying to get better at using those.

Thanks

be frank said:

Fair enough. Generally I find the best thing to do when you're uncertain of things like this is to see how other authors handle it. Flip through some of your favourite recent books (in various genres) and check out the tagging.

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I second this advice. And I suggest you don't use an older novel (more than 10-15 years or so). I'm re-reading an old favorite (from the early 90s) now, and I'm appalled by the mistakes in dialog punctuation. Lots of treating actions as if they are dialog tags. For instance: "I know what you mean," she grinned. or "Ouch," he grimaced.

Last time I checked, one can't grin or grimace words (though one can speak while grinning or grimacing), but they evidently didn't know that at this publisher 20 years ago.

IMO, actions work well for attributing dialog (when punctuated properly), but it can become annoying if authors use lots of extraneous grins, smiles, shrugs, sighs etc. when they come off as repetitive or excessive. It can make the character seem twitchy.

You generally don't have to attribute every line, and there is nothing wrong with simply tagging with "said," or "asked" or something like that. Make sure any actions you include in the dialog make sense and add something to the narrative.

Roxxsmom said:

I suggest you don't use an older novel (more than 10-15 years or so).

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Probably worth also keeping it to trade published novels (from reputable publishers). There are lots of excellent self-published books out there, but there's also plenty that get things like tags and dialogue punctuation wrong. It can be a bit of a minefield. (Not that all trade published books are perfect, it's just the odds seem better of hitting something that gets the 'rules' right. )

Toto Too said:

It still requires some creativity or imagination though. "She smiled" is often the first and only thing that comes to mind when I'm writing dialogue. After a few twirls of the hair and fiddling with fingers, I pretty much run out.

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Whenever I find myself reverting to stock-standard smiles, frowns, shrugs, sighs etc (which I often use as placeholder actions in drafting), I step back and think about where the characters are and what they'd be doing in that space. That is, think about how they might interact with their environment.

IMO, this both helps to build a realistic world for the reader to picture and can also add nice character details without explicitly stating them. (Rough example: if a character's cooking while talking, having them select a perfectly balanced Japanese knife from a block will say something different about them and their household than if they start hacking at vegetables with something rusty and blunt.)

Toto Too said:

It still requires some creativity or imagination though.

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Very little about writing doesn't.

"She smiled" is often the first and only thing that comes to mind when I'm writing dialogue.

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In my own experience, the first thing that pops to mind (particularly when my writer's brain isn't yet fully engaged) is not usually the freshest phrasing but the most stale. So that's probably not abnormal. It's just a matter of refusing to be satisfied with it. Though occasionally "she smiled" or equivalent is exactly what's needed. But most of the time, we can do better.

Start noticing how published writers deal with it. Some do fall back on trite expressions but there are really good writers out there who find ways amplify those plain smiles or use something else instead.

Margie Lawson offers an online course, reasonably priced, about body language. How to deal those ubiquitous smiles, frowns, etc., is specifically addressed. I've taken the course, so I can certainly recommend it to anyone who'd like help with these things. (It's not on offer at the moment, but the courses rotate around so I'm sure it will come back before too long.)

be frank said:

Probably worth also keeping it to trade published novels (from reputable publishers). There are lots of excellent self-published books out there, but there's also plenty that get things like tags and dialogue punctuation wrong. It can be a bit of a minefield. (Not that all trade published books are perfect, it's just the odds seem better of hitting something that gets the 'rules' right. )



Whenever I find myself reverting to stock-standard smiles, frowns, shrugs, sighs etc (which I often use as placeholder actions in drafting), I step back and think about where the characters are and what they'd be doing in that space. That is, think about how they might interact with their environment.

IMO, this both helps to build a realistic world for the reader to picture and can also add nice character details without explicitly stating them. (Rough example: if a character's cooking while talking, having them select a perfectly balanced Japanese knife from a block will say something different about them and their household than if they start hacking at vegetables with something rusty and blunt.)

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Thanks. Part of the problem is that the fantasy world that serves as the setting is necessarily plain, and pretty much a constant throughout the book. So there's isn't much for the characters to interact with. That's likely a problem unto itself.


Beth, thanks! Ooof those classes are expensive. Do they really have content that's significantly better than other authors' videos and the great advice I've gotten here?

Toto Too said:

Thanks. Part of the problem is that the fantasy world that serves as the setting is necessarily plain, and pretty much a constant throughout the book. So there's isn't much for the characters to interact with. That's likely a problem unto itself.

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But there still must be something for your characters to interact with. (Unless you're writing Duck Amuck fan fiction where Daffy's surrounded by absolute nothingness, I guess... )



I mean, even desert is more than just sand. Presumably, your characters still have to move about the place via various means of transport. They have to eat. They have to interact with other characters. Dunno. Just seems like saying "the setting is plain" overlooks a lot of the little day-to-day bits and pieces that help bring a secondary world to life. JMHO though.

Toto Too said:

Beth, thanks! Ooof those classes are expensive. Do they really have content that's significantly better than other authors' videos and the great advice I've gotten here?

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Well, just fwiw, compared to many professional workshops and courses, the Lawson courses are a bargain, most being under a hundred dollars. But of course that doesn't mean everyone's budget will stretch to it. I will say that I've yet to see any course or workshop anywhere that teaches the writer to elevate their prose the way some of Margie's courses do. OTOH, if your eyes and ears are open, you can pick up a lot on your own. Also, you can order the lecture packets from her site for just $22. If that interests you, then I'd suggest the one for her Deep Edits course, which contains some of the same information as the body language course and more besides.

I emphasize beats over tags when it's important to clarify the speaker right away, usually because it's a surprise that this character speaks at that point.

It's usually awkward to read, "Lero said,"...anything at the beginning of a sentence, and it's worse at the beginning of a paragraph. But if Lero has to restrain himself from pounding on the table, and then he speaks, it comes across more naturally.

Also, this suggestion comes at the expense of a pacing trade-off, but you can make your nods and smiles and laughs more complex. "Alicia smiled, so quickly he almost missed it" conveys a lot more than simply "Alicia smiled." Or: "Almost against his will, a corner of his mouth turned up, and a rumble of laughter escaped" conveys more than "He laughed."

Although I agree with the suggestion to have other actions function as beats. Warriors can draw their daggers and use them to pare their fingernails, or they can throw them into a tree stump. Women can put their hands on their hips. Everyone can fidget--shifting in their seat, tapping their fingers on the table, etc. Dogs are very useful in stories because everyone can pet them. (And yes, the dog should do something besides be a focus for beats, but still.)

I'd suggest spending a day where you list your own small actions, and then go to a Starbucks or whatever and take notes on beats you could use that other people do. It might expand your repertoire in this area, and that's always a good thing.