Grammar/Style Questions and the Rules Behind Them

You could just put a comma after 'forth' and delete 'It was' on the first one. Maybe something like, 'He glanced toward the lake, and watched the waves swaying back and forth as if caught in an endless graceful dance.' And probably 'caught' could be dropped too. And for that matter 'swaying' pretty much implies 'back and forth' so maybe that could go too.

In #2 are you asking whether to use the comma after 'salt'? I definitely would, so all three actions are separate.

#1 - If you didn't want to reword as suggested above, you can use a semicolon to join two closely related sentences:

Then, he glanced to the lake and watched the waves swaying back and forth; it was as if they were caught in an endless graceful dance.

But I think rewording would be a better option because, to me, the semicolon doesn't quite work well here.

#2 - What you're asking about is a serial (Oxford) comma. That's a matter of style. See https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/serial-comma.

Example #1: When writing fiction it's often (somewhat) less about using proper grammar than about finding the inner rhythm of the sentence to convey emotion or set a mood. This is particularly true wrt such things as similes and metaphors. Try to find the rhythm you want for that particular passage. "Then, he turned* to the lake and watched the waves, swaying back and forth as if caught in an endless graceful dance." (for example)

Example #2: Yep, Oxford or serial comma.


*I changed glance to turned because that feeling or "notice" on the part of your character can't be captured in a glance. If you can find a better word to convey the pensiveness of the moment, use that.

I can't imagine not using the serial comma, but I'm aware not everyone agrees.

DanielSTJ said:

Question #1:

I want to combine my second sentence with the first:

Then, he glanced to the lake and watched the waves swaying back and forth. It was as if they were caught in an endless graceful dance.

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Then, he glanced to the lake and watched the waves swaying back and forth, as if they were caught in an endless graceful dance.

caw

DanielSTJ said:

What is everyone's opinion on the use of the serial comma? Should I go for it to avoid confusion?

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What would be wrong with using it? And what is confusing?

caw

Q1:
The lake caught his glance as its waves swayed back and forth in an endless graceful dance.

Q2:
I would use a comma after every list item, save the last one.

Q1:
Then, he glanced to the lake and watched the waves swaying back and forth. It was as if they were caught in an endless graceful dance.

He glanced to the lake, watching the waves sway back and forth in their endless graceful dance.

Q2:
A comma after every list item, save the last one - as BurntPieCrust said

DanielSTJ said:

Question #1

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You could do this:

Then, he glanced to the lake and watched the waves swaying back and forth, caught in an endless graceful dance.

Question #2:

What are the rules when stating items in an order? I picked up the potatoes, grabbed the salt, and stored the crackers.

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That one. ^ You need the comma after "salt."

Purdue Owl is a good online source for all things grammatical. Look under "General Writing."

DanielSTJ said:

Excellent everyone! Very good lesson.

What is everyone's opinion on the use of the serial comma? Should I go for it to avoid confusion?

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Yes!!!

A little additional information on the serial comma: As has been mentioned, this is a style issue. What hasn't been mentioned (unless I missed it!) is which style guides use what. So, the two most writers are likely to encounter:

The Chicago Manual of Style - This is commonly used for US fiction, as well as for general-purpose non-fiction books. It "strongly recommends" use of the serial comma. Except before ampersands--that just looks weird.

The Associated Press Stylebook - This is what you'll generally see in newspapers; also some magazines. AP recommends omitting serial commas unless doing so leads to ambiguity.

Personally, I tailor my writing to whatever market I'm writing for. So if I submit an article to a paper or a website that uses AP style, I omit most serial commas, even though I'm firmly pro-serial comma myself. If I'm working on a book, I use serial commas. Sure, a copy editor will tweak things to the necessary style guide pre-publication, but a) I like to decrease their workload when possible and b) I know the editor who'll be considering my piece is used to seeing work per their accustomed style guide, and I don't want anything in there that might derail them, even a little, as they consider my submission.

I hate to be the skunk at the garden party, but waves generally all move in one direction and don't move back and forth.

GregFH said:

I hate to be the skunk at the garden party, but waves generally all move in one direction and don't move back and forth.

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It's a great point to make, but they do in fact move back and forth, if viewed poetically. Or if you experience motion sickness.

Researchers recently established that the English language actually has two grammars, with the older grammar being used to argue everything must make sense, while the newer one provides people a polite way to excuse themselves. Grammar has also proven to be related to the proximity of syntax in the brain, and children have proven to acquire grammar the hard way, by crunching the numbers. In other words, Noam Chomsky was wrong, and grammar mostly describes how the conscious mind alone works, while our thoughts have also proven to arise directly from emotions.

Technobabble, but it means that exactly which grammar you use becomes context dependent, which means it also depends on your personal style, and the context and content can exchange identities. The more vague anything you write becomes, the more often anyone can interpret the grammar however they prefer. My own interpretation would always depend on the yin-yang dynamics, or the issue of balance being restored, whenever harmony is lost. Words have both mechanics for balance, and swing if they take on a life of their own.