Too many prepositions/adverbs?

aetherpen

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Hi all, I was hoping I could ask for some opinions regarding some editing advice I received that confused me.

Recently, I worked with an editor whose main critique of my manuscript was that I used certain prepositions/adverbs—words such as "out," "down," "up," and "around"—too many times.

However…this confused me since these words are necessary in order to make the text grammatically correct and/or idiomatic.

I didn't believe I was using the words repetitively. For example, while the word “out” may appear three times on a page, it was always used with different verbs (“make out,” “burst out,” “kick out,” etc.). It didn’t make sense to me to simply remove or change "out," and as for changing the verb entirely, I wanted to use simple, colloquial verbs for the purpose of tone.

I also felt like removing directional words ("down"/"up") made actions vaguer (i.e. removing “up” from “ran up the stairs”).

I’m just wondering if this is a common editing complaint? I don’t want to sound like I believe I know better than an editor—however, as a person who also writes as their full-time day job, I have honestly never encountered the belief that this is a writing error before, so I’m curious.

Thank you!
 

starrystorm

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I'm not an editor, but what I think yours is trying to say is you could cut some words in certain instances. I always look for these after I finish writing a new chapter:

1) walked around the tree = circled the tree
2) sat down = sat
3) stood up = stood
4) flew up = flew
5) shouted out = shouted
7) ran up/down the stairs = ran upstairs/downstairs
8) stared down at the grass = stared at the grass


Of course there are some exceptions. Try to change the sentence to get rid of those words, and if it still doesn't sound right or make sense, convert it back.
 

Fallen

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I'm not an editor, but what I think yours is trying to say is you could cut some words in certain instances. I always look for these after I finish writing a new chapter:

1) walked around the tree = circled the tree
2) sat down = sat
3) stood up = stood
4) flew up = flew
5) shouted out = shouted
7) ran up/down the stairs = ran upstairs/downstairs
8) stared down at the grass = stared at the grass


Of course there are some exceptions. Try to change the sentence to get rid of those words, and if it still doesn't sound right or make sense, convert it back.

^ this is excellent advice!
 

BurntPieCrust

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It didn’t make sense to me to simply remove or change "out," and as for changing the verb entirely, I wanted to use simple, colloquial verbs for the purpose of tone.

You might be trapping yourself with this idea. I get the idea of setting a simpler, more straightforward tone, but the editor might just be at a point where the description isn't enough for him.

I haven't read your MS so I can't speak to anything for sure, but I would bet the editor is looking for more descriptive wording and is using your prepositions as the scapegoat.

Not to re-word what everyone else has said... :D
 

DanielSTJ

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I'm not an editor, but what I think yours is trying to say is you could cut some words in certain instances. I always look for these after I finish writing a new chapter:

1) walked around the tree = circled the tree
2) sat down = sat
3) stood up = stood
4) flew up = flew
5) shouted out = shouted
7) ran up/down the stairs = ran upstairs/downstairs
8) stared down at the grass = stared at the grass


Of course there are some exceptions. Try to change the sentence to get rid of those words, and if it still doesn't sound right or make sense, convert it back.

I'm going to file this under, "Extremely Important Information." :)

Excellent advice!
 

JenWantsCoffee

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So, I agree with all of the above. The only thing I can add is that I've gotten the same advice about adverbs. The editors I have used have wanted all of them destroyed. :) Good luck!
 

Fallen

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The only thing I can add is that I've gotten the same advice about adverbs. The editors I have used have wanted all of them destroyed.

All of them! If it's close repetition, where you're stacking adverbs on top of each other so that at all you see is adverbs, or they repeat consistently through manuscript, distracting from the imagery, then that's usually a problem, but targeting them all?
 

Lakey

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All of them! If it's close repetition, where you're stacking adverbs on top of each other so that at all you see is adverbs, or they repeat consistently through manuscript, distracting from the imagery, then that's usually a problem....

Or, if they are being used to prop up weak verbs where stronger verbs would do better — walked swiftly instead of hurried, looked closely instead of examined, that sort of thing. That kind of writing advice — use strong verbs instead of modifying weak ones — sometimes gets distorted into a more general avoidance of adverbs. We had a thread about it around here somewhere, recently.

The same thing can happen with verb phrases that include prepositions, by the way - went up can be replaced by the stronger ascended, went out by left or exited, hung around by loitered, and so on. I wonder if some of the suggestions OP has received about removing prepositions comes down to instances like this.

:e2coffee:
 

BethS

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All of them! If it's close repetition, where you're stacking adverbs on top of each other so that at all you see is adverbs, or they repeat consistently through manuscript, distracting from the imagery, then that's usually a problem, but targeting them all?

That was my reaction, too. Adverbs are a tool. They can be used badly or used well.
 

Pampurrs

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I hate adverbs, not just in my work, but in books I read. One of the things I do in my first edit is search and destroy adverbs, unless absolutely unavoidable. In my most recent novel of 65,000 words, I don't think you can find a half dozen adverbs.
As many of the others have stated, a strong verb is much better than trying to prop up a weak verb with an adverb.

Pam
 

MaeZe

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blacbird

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Just for a grinny aside, an example of what's wrong with a lot of adverb usage, seen a couple of days ago in an online news story. It was about someone being "fatally killed".

caw
 

Maryn

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That's the worst kind of killing!

Lots of publishers have advice to authors about needless directional adverbs.
Look up at the sky --> Look at the sky, because it's always up.
Fall down from a tree --> Fall from a tree, because down is the only way gravity works
Circled around the campfire --> Circled the campfire, because all circles are around their centers

A lot of these sorts of words, mentioned in original post, introduce redundancy because the direction is clearly understood without them. Then when the direction is needed (ran up the stairs, walked around the dead body) it doesn't add one more of an adverb that's already plentiful.

I'm also a fan of the best verb you can find rather than a perfectly good verb plus an adverb to fancify it.

Speaking honestly, though, I couldn't put much trust in someone who wants you to replace "ran up the stairs" with "ran the stairs." That just sounds weird, like a non-native speaker doing the best they can with advice they read somewhere. And the word out cannot be removed from terms like "make out" and "burst out." ("I really hope I can make with Bob at the party this weekend!" "If you do, I'll burst laughing.") Based on the feedback this person is giving you, I think the best thing might be to thank them for their time and ignore their advice.

Maryn, who did indeed say that
 

MaeZe

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True, but when my son critiqued my work he said, "you don't need to say that twice," or "we already know that so you don't need it."

I use that advice all the time now to eliminate a lot of extra words in my work.
 

Maryn

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A future beta reader you're raising, clearly on his way to paid edits.
 

MaeZe

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A future beta reader you're raising, clearly on his way to paid edits.

He has natural writing talent. Just from being an avid reader he has picked up a lot of writer's skills like, "don't say it twice."

I encourage him, a little bit has rubbed off. He has put a few unpolished stories up on a website. I'll ask him if I can share.
 

BethS

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As many of the others have stated, a strong verb is much better than trying to prop up a weak verb with an adverb.

I agree. But adverbs can do so much more than that. That's not all they're good for.
 

BethS

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Just for a grinny aside, an example of what's wrong with a lot of adverb usage, seen a couple of days ago in an online news story. It was about someone being "fatally killed".

:e2thud:
 

morngnstar

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In your examples the prepositions seem necessary. For example, "He burst the balloon," is an entirely different thing than "He burst out the balloon." It is common writing advice, mostly around phrases like "stand up" or "jump over".