Planning vs Getting on with it

I am going to write a new novel for NaNoWriMo. A contemporary romance, with MC in their early 40s, offered a second chance to happiness. I have done the research I know I need (there will be some I don't know yet I need). I have 2 pages of notes. Not a detailed outline, because I don't know yet what happens in the second part of the novel. But I still have one month's time to figure it out...

Yes, I do outline, but it is a loose one.

RoyalFool said:

I am purely interested in how people work.

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The characters lead, I follow. Doesn't mean I don't get stuck or occasionally have to backtrack a little, but that usually happens because I got out ahead of them.

I start with setting, characters, the inciting incident, and the destination. And then I see what happens. So far what tends to happen is any B-plot that develops tends to become the A-plot, and my original ending becomes an epilog.

The story comes to me, it's not something I deliberately construct at first; it's just there. I hold it inside my head for a long time, poking at it mentally so see whether it's something that I want to write and if it has legs enough for a novel (if not, then I consider shelving it or spinning it into a short story). Characters show up along with the story, and I have to figure out if I like them enough, and if they are interesting enough to write about.

Once it passes that I start roughing out the outline and writing character profiles. I refine the outline until I have about a page (~300 words) per chapter. Then the writing begins and I push until I'm done, then start editing, editing, and editing. Then send it to my editor. Then edit some more.

So far, I've generally started with a premise/conceit. That naturally leads into a vague idea of the characters. I usually come up with an endpoint, related to the premise/conceit, which relates to the overall theme (the theme and the premise are closely intertwined). With the end in sight, I usually come up with a place to start, and I begin filling in the middle with scenes, moments, and lines of dialogue I want to hit along the way. It begins to fill itself out as I write until I have a WIP.

My Civil War WIP is a good example. Premise: Confederate woman nurses a wounded Yankee without knowing he's a Yankee. This naturally necessitates a Confederate woman and a Yankee soldier. Confederate woman gains a sister and nieces/nephews, Yankee gains a backstory. I realize I want this to (begin to) change the Confederate woman's mind. Theme achieved: forgiveness, learning about the humanity of your enemy, etc. I hit some points along the way: a nephew running off, a fire, a niece getting too friendly with a young Yankee officer, etc. Add in some lines that came to me ("I don't understand." "I know."), et voila! A 92k-word novel.

It's worked pretty similarly for my other WIPs.

Complexity requires more planning.

I see plotting and pantsing as a spectrum with each at the opposite end. I think everyone is not at one of the extreme ends, but anywhere in between (even if only a little). Series is very different from one book. For example, Harry Potter has seven books. There are events that happen in book 2 that re-occur in book 6. From book 3 back in book 5. Book one back in book 7. With elements like these, planning for series is a lot different from single books. It requires planning and thinking of it in different ways (especially with large casts and more secrets/reveals).

I need to know the general gist of the plot. I need to know who the characters are, what makes the protagonist a person worth telling a story about, what problem they need to overcome.

After that? Depending on the idea, I can just come up with more and more as I go along. Sometimes I do need to stop and think for a bit, and I usually do let my mind wander about my stories, but I don't really plan all that much. It isn't quite as fun if I'm not discovering the story as I go, and I often come up with my best ideas for the story while I'm writing it.

Enlightened said:

Complexity requires more planning.

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I would say that is not necessarily so, with the caveat that pulling complexity out of one's pants may require editing/rewriting in subsequent drafts to make sure everything fits together as intended.

If I had to plan or outline before I started, I would never write anything. It's not for me. Writing is like collecting jigsaw pieces. I get a loose idea, or a paragraph or an intro and I start writing and see where it takes me. Sometimes I sit down to write and I have no idea until I get a sentence and before I know it I have a whole paragraph or scene that I didn't see coming. When I work on a larger project I sometimes wait until I have enough jigsaw pieces in my notebook before I start writing. Sometimes halfway through I list what's coming between then and the end not to forget anything.

On what basis do you make the global assertion that complexity (in a novel) requires more planning? More planning than what?

It doesn't.

You apparently feel the need to plan where complexity is anticipated, and if it works for you, good luck.

Complex planning is certainly no guarantee of a readable or successful novel at the end.

Some extremely complex/intriguing/successful novels have arisen out of minimal planning. John Le Carre's espionage novels spring to mind.

And if one classes the 23+ Jack Reacher novels as a series, there's another illustration of a very successful novelist who doesn't go along with meticulous planning.

Enlightened said:

Complexity requires more planning.

I see plotting and pantsing as a spectrum with each at the opposite end. I think everyone is not at one of the extreme ends, but anywhere in between (even if only a little). Series is very different from one book. For example, Harry Potter has seven books. There are events that happen in book 2 that re-occur in book 6. From book 3 back in book 5. Book one back in book 7. With elements like these, planning for series is a lot different from single books. It requires planning and thinking of it in different ways (especially with large casts and more secrets/reveals).

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I do a full snowflake outline before I write the first word.

I even outline short stories.

I have to have a road map or I can't get started.

lilyWhite said:

I would say that is not necessarily so, with the caveat that pulling complexity out of one's pants may require editing/rewriting in subsequent drafts to make sure everything fits together as intended.

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By complexity, I meant tie-ins between multiple books in series (compared to a single book). One book (as a standalone), in series, has the same elements of a single book, but complexity increases with series tie-ins, foreshadowing between books in series, and so on.

To reiterate, complexity (of project) requires more planning (compared to pantsing) on the spectrum I noted above.

Enlightened said:

By complexity, I meant tie-ins between multiple books in series (compared to a single book). One book (as a standalone), in series, has the same elements of a single book, but complexity increases with series tie-ins, foreshadowing between books in series, and so on.

To reiterate, complexity (of project) requires more planning (compared to pantsing) on the spectrum I noted above.

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George R R Martin is a self-confessed pantser (although he calls it being a gardener) didn't stop GoT series to turn out fine and successful. Anyway the OP didn't ask for what we think what kind of projects needs, they just want to know how we each personally write.

Enlightened, I've cited these before, but the solar Cycle books by Gene Wolfe are about as complex as sff series get. They are dense, philosophical, scientific, multilayered, span universes in scope and traverse multiple time lines. Gene Wolfe does not outline, beyond jotting a few notes down as he goes. It is definitely possible to write a series without a plan in advance. It simply depends in the type of writer. Anyway, back on topic.

I did a thread recently with my CP on twitter where we compared methods. She and I are completely opposed; I create four or five emotional moments that form the center piece of each Act. and I build up to and around each moment and them link them together. On a chapter by chapter basis I am very detail oriented but on a manuscript level I follow no outline or plan beyond the initial premise and an idea of my emotional arcs. It works for me.

My cp however, writes detailed plot outlines for the whole novel, but discovery writes each chapter. Literally the exact opposite.

There is no difference particularly in the complexity of our books; we are fairly well matched in that regard. I love that we do it so differently and get the same result. I find it mind boggling in a way.

There is no inherent problem with planning. The problem surfaces when planning is all you do. And I've encountered more than one aspiring writer caught in that sticky trap.

I tend to start with an idea for a story, two or more characters, a situation, and perhaps an idea for a resolution, an ending. Beyond that, I "plan" as I go. Every bit of writing constrains what the next bit of writing can sensibly be, and narrows the focus. Eventually a tighter plan becomes clear.

caw

blacbird said:

There is no inherent problem with planning. The problem surfaces when planning is all you do. And I've encountered more than one aspiring writer caught in that sticky trap.

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This bears repeating.


As for me, I don't do a lot of planning ahead. I've said before that for me, it's like an epic road trip. When I start out, I know I'm leaving New York and 75,000 words later, I'm going to end up in Los Angeles. (I always have a HEA, so that's my end goal every time.) When I get in the car, I don't know if I'm traveling North and stopping in Detroit, or if I'm going South and stopping in San Antonio. I might visit an art gallery, or I might take a 40 mile detour to see the World's Largest Ball of Twine. It all depends on my characters and what they want/need.

My exception is NaNo. I tend to put more forethought into my NaNo novels simply because there's a deadline involved. I still pants it, but I at least have a map in the glovebox.

RoyalFool said:

So, how much advance planning do you do?

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Does it matter what I do? What matters is what works for you.

Jeff

I decided to take on a biography. There's a beginning and end along with a made up astral observer that makes a decent arc. I interviewed on tape, made timeline notes, and a list of scenes. I now have to paste scenes together with smooth and anticipating narrative and... *This is tough!*
My other short (60-70K) fun books were pantsers and I had fun with those. I want this story done badly but I have to step away a lot to keep from forcing the narrative.

Myrealana said:

I have to have a road map or I can't get started.

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Same here. I never get writer's block because I always know what I'm going to write next. I'm sure that's not necessary for some, but we're all different. I think if you find yourself planning all the time, though, you may be stalling.

I'm a perfectionist, so everything must be planned perfectly, even though I write short stories. I've tried to write impromptu, but it was an unsuccessful attempt

OP: If you think of a novel (or a series of novels) as a project, it is a multi-phasic process where each phase has multiple tasks. Some people need to have checklists for each task of each phase. Some don't. For me, I need tasks checked before I can end my planning phase. This helps me prevent things such as: plot holes; deus ex machina resolutions; and so forth. Risk tolerance is very individualistic. I enjoy the subtle hints and nuances I contrive from planning (rather than, likely, missing many of them if I tried pantsing, primarily), but this is just how I work. As we see in other posts in this thread, this is not how others work. Variety is the spice of life.

RoyalFool said:

My response to this is: How much of the rest of my post did you read, because at the end I specifically said:

"Now, I know everyone is different so I am not asking for advice on which one you think is best - I am purely interested in how people work. "

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You're asking a question. People are answering.

Try not to take offense where none is meant.

You can always just walk away from the keyboard.

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