Battle Content and Age Appropriateness

Enlightened

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Hello all.

I'd like to know opinions of what reader age is appropriate for certain content.

Content: Blade (e.g. sword, axe, other) and range-weapon (e.g. arrows) fighting, showing physical combat against live human/humanoids and animals.
Content: Description of mutilated flesh (from previous battles or current battles).

MG: 8-12
YA: 13-18
NA: 18-30

Lord of the Rings movies (all rated PG-13) have, what I call from gaming lingo, hack-n-slash and dungeon-crawl fighting.

[This site] notes to watch the three LOTR movies at age 12.

Question 1: Is YA (age range for book readers) appropriate for blade and range-weapons injuring and/or killing live people, humanoids, and/or animals (e.g. dragons), or is this best for NA (age group)? This includes one-on-one battle and armies colliding on the battlefield.

Question 2: Is description of mutilated flesh (to describe wounds from battle or describe new characters/humanoids who been through many battles) best limited to YA or NA?

I understand battling can be shown in MG (e.g. Harry destroying Tom Riddle's book with a Basilisk tooth, drawing blood and injuring Tom), but I am looking for the physical injuring and killing of another human, humanoid, and so forth. Also, I would not include description of mutilated flesh in MG.

Thank you for any feedback.
 

Brightdreamer

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Read the polar bear battle in Philip Pullman's MG title The Golden Compass. Blood. Gore. Gratuitous heart-eating. And that was marketed at MG.

Look at some of the graphic novels/comic books marketed at the YA audience, as well.

Trust me - YA audiences can handle combat, blood, violence, and injury between humans.

I strongly suggest you read more in the genre; I get the impression that you haven't had much of a taste of what's out there, if you're not sure whether teens can handle battle sequences with bloodshed. (Or maybe your target audience is one that prefers more sheltered stories, such as the religious fiction market - in which case, you should judge by where similar titles set the bar.)
 

fenyo

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I think you should write what ever you like and feel comfortable with.

you never know who will read what and how. these things change all the time.
 

johnsolomon

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I think all of it's OK.

A lot of it comes down to how you word it:
  1. The knight's sword flashed out and the villager crumpled.
  2. The knight's sword flashed out and the villager fell back. His arm flew to his throat in a futile attempt to stop the blood spraying out.
  3. The knight cleaved the villager's head in half, revealing brain matter. All of the other villagers were so freaked out that they went to therapy.
(Not exactly mind-blowing description but I hope you see what I mean)

ETA: I agree with the others. I remember reading some pretty bloody scenes in Mortal Engines. If you want a lighter tone then just make the violence vaguer. Think 300 vs the old daytime Hercules and Xena shows.
 
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cornflake

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Hello all.

I'd like to know opinions of what reader age is appropriate for certain content.

Content: Blade (e.g. sword, axe, other) and range-weapon (e.g. arrows) fighting, showing physical combat against live human/humanoids and animals.
Content: Description of mutilated flesh (from previous battles or current battles).

MG: 8-12
YA: 13-18
NA: 18-30

Lord of the Rings movies (all rated PG-13) have, what I call from gaming lingo, hack-n-slash and dungeon-crawl fighting.

[This site] notes to watch the three LOTR movies at age 12.

Question 1: Is YA (age range for book readers) appropriate for blade and range-weapons injuring and/or killing live people, humanoids, and/or animals (e.g. dragons), or is this best for NA (age group)? This includes one-on-one battle and armies colliding on the battlefield.

Question 2: Is description of mutilated flesh (to describe wounds from battle or describe new characters/humanoids who been through many battles) best limited to YA or NA?

I understand battling can be shown in MG (e.g. Harry destroying Tom Riddle's book with a Basilisk tooth, drawing blood and injuring Tom), but I am looking for the physical injuring and killing of another human, humanoid, and so forth. Also, I would not include description of mutilated flesh in MG.

Thank you for any feedback.

Movies are not books.

NA isn't really a thing anymore, nor was it ever a thing w/re fantasy.

There's MG, YA, Adult (and what comes before MG, but that's sorted by book type rather than age).

I think you need to read more in your categories, because all of that is tried-and-true in YA and largely in MG.
 

Enlightened

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Thanks all. I was looking for opinions of appropriateness. I got some great info from the thread. If anyone else would like to share their opinion on the matter, please do.

Cheers.
 

Kjbartolotta

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would agree with cornflake and add that YA is perfectly happy to verge into grimdark and beyond these days (wasn't always).

Guh, at least a cursory skim of the Wings of Fire series shows that MG is comfortable with this as well.
 

indianroads

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Graphic sex could be more of a problem for YA than strong violence.

It's all evolving - compare TV shows like Mr. Ed to Will and Grace; for violent content look at Combat vs. GOT.
 

Roxxsmom

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Question 1: Is YA (age range for book readers) appropriate for blade and range-weapons injuring and/or killing live people, humanoids, and/or animals (e.g. dragons), or is this best for NA (age group)? This includes one-on-one battle and armies colliding on the battlefield.

I've read books for MG kids with battle and fight scenes, let alone YA. I think if a book is intended for high-school-age kids, describing violence and its consequences in some detail is probably fine. The YA fantasy I've read lately does so. Any violence or sexual content should make sense in the context of the story, and any explicit content should serve a narrative purpose and not be there for shock value or just to be sexy or gory, but many would argue that this is a good guideline for adult fantasy too.

Some examples of YA fantasy titles.

The Tethered Mage by Melissa Caruso. Death and violence present. Not super graphic, but she doesn't seek to hide it either.

The Shattered Sea Trilogy by Joe Abercrombie (less gore, sex and swearing than in his adult titles, but there is still plenty).

Ruined by Amy Tintera. Opens with a combat scene where the protagonist kills someone.

Question 2: Is description of mutilated flesh (to describe wounds from battle or describe new characters/humanoids who been through many battles) best limited to YA or NA?

I understand battling can be shown in MG (e.g. Harry destroying Tom Riddle's book with a Basilisk tooth, drawing blood and injuring Tom), but I am looking for the physical injuring and killing of another human, humanoid, and so forth. Also, I would not include description of mutilated flesh in MG.

Thank you for any feedback.

My understanding of MG (like the Harry Potter series, though it morphed into YA as it progressed) is that one should avoid graphic gore, but it can certainly be implied. I think there can be some exceptions if the perception of something very unpleasant, like a dead body or blood or whatever, is pivotal to the character in a way that the scene should be "shown." YA is different. Again, I can think of plenty of YA titles where injuries and violence are described in varying amount of detail.

You should really read some recently published YA fantasy if you want to write it. Not to be blunt, but from the nature of your questions, I get the impression you haven't read much of it.

Here is a list of some upcoming YA fantasy for 2018. I'm guessing some of these are out by now. Some of the titles look like they are well worth checking out.

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/blog/teen/anticipated-ya-fantasy-novels-2018/

Also, I'm not sure if NA fantasy is really a "thing" or not. There are many fantasy novels where the protagonists are in their late teens or early twenties (US college age), but that doesn't necessarily make it NA, which is supposed to (as I understand it) focus on the kinds of issues someone of college and just after college age might face--full separation from family of origin, being educated in a profession, establishing oneself in a profession, first love that could possibly end in a lifelong partnership and so on. Maybe books like Maria V. Snyder's Study series, or Lev Grossman's The Magicians Trilogy would be closest to examples of NA style fantasy novels? Maybe Kate Elliott's Spiritwalker Trilogy too. As far as I know, these books are generally just shelved with fantasy and SF, though, and maybe cross-shelved with YA, even though their protagonists are older than the cutoff age. All of these examples have been out for a while now, however.
 
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Enlightened

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Thanks indianroads; I forgot about GoT! Game of Thrones is rated, in America, TV-MA (Mature Audience); i.e. not suitable for 16 and under.

It appears the consensus is progression of each MG/YA is becoming more tolerable. Thanks everyone!
 
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Enlightened

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I've read books for MG kids with battle and fight scenes, let alone YA. I think if a book is intended for high-school-age kids, describing violence and its consequences in some detail is probably fine. The YA fantasy I've read lately does so. Any violence or sexual content should make sense in the context of the story, and any explicit content should serve a narrative purpose and not be there for shock value or just to be sexy or gory, but many would argue that this is a good guideline for adult fantasy too.

Some examples of YA fantasy titles.

The Tethered Mage by Melissa Caruso. Death and violence present. Not super graphic, but she doesn't seek to hide it either.

The Shattered Sea Trilogy by Joe Abercrombie (less gore, sex and swearing than in his adult titles, but there is still plenty).

Ruined by Amy Tintera. Opens with a combat scene where the protagonist kills someone.



My understanding of MG (like the Harry Potter series, though it morphed into YA as it progressed) is that one should avoid graphic gore, but it can certainly be implied. I think there can be some exceptions if the perception of something very unpleasant, like a dead body or blood or whatever, is pivotal to the character in a way that the scene should be "shown." YA is different. Again, I can think of plenty of YA titles where injuries and violence are described in varying amount of detail.

You should really read some recently published YA fantasy if you want to write it. Not to be blunt, but from the nature of your questions, I get the impression you haven't read much of it.

Here is a list of some upcoming YA fantasy for 2018. I'm guessing some of these are out by now. Some of the titles look like they are well worth checking out.

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/blog/teen/anticipated-ya-fantasy-novels-2018/

Also, I'm not sure if NA fantasy is really a "thing" or not. There are many fantasy novels where the protagonists are in their late teens or early twenties (US college age), but that doesn't necessarily make it NA, which is supposed to (as I understand it) focus on the kinds of issues someone of college and just after college age might face--full separation from family of origin, being educated in a profession, establishing oneself in a profession, first love that could possibly end in a lifelong partnership and so on. Maybe books like Maria V. Snyder's Study series, or Lev Grossman's The Magicians Trilogy would be closest to examples of NA style fantasy novels? Maybe Kate Elliott's Spiritwalker Trilogy too. As far as I know, these books are generally just shelved with fantasy and SF, though, and maybe cross-shelved with YA, even though their protagonists are older than the cutoff age. All of these examples have been out for a while now, however.

WOW! Very detailed information. There is a lot of great information for what I was looking for. Cheers!!!!!!
 

Harlequin

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It's definitely not in fantasy. NA only existed in romance even when it was around, and no longer has legs as a category.

I didn't realise Tethered Mage was YA until you mentioned it in that list, but ofc you are right.
 

Roxxsmom

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It's definitely not in fantasy. NA only existed in romance even when it was around, and no longer has legs as a category.

I didn't realise Tethered Mage was YA until you mentioned it in that list, but ofc you are right.

The protagonist is 17-18, so her age is right. The voice feels right for YA too, as does the subject matter (a young woman trying to establish herself in the shadow of a rather formidable mother, and of course divided loyalties and complex relationships with some age peers). I've enjoyed the first two books in the series and will read the third when it comes out.
 

folclor

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I'll throw just a little bit of opinion in here and say that someone gave me the first Game of Thrones book when I was 13, going on 14. I had to stop reading on Dany's wedding night because it literally made me sick. So it's going to be hit or miss regardless of what else is out there or what the TV rating is.

As a tiny bit more anecdotal stuff: My dad read me the Akira manga when I was in grade school. Probably not the best choice.