There is some irony here

Roxxsmom

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I want to start this with the caveat that I don't wish the horrors of flooding and hurricane-force winds on anyone, and I hope the casualties are light with Florence.

But I also find it frustrating that North Carolina is a state that passed laws against policies that anticipate sea level rises.

When North Carolina got bad news about what its coast could look like thanks to climate change, it chose to ignore it.
Hurricane Florence: over 1m ordered to evacuate in Virginia and Carolinas
Read more

In 2012, the state now in the path of Hurricane Florence reacted to a prediction by its Coastal Resources Commission that sea levels could rise by 39in over the next century by passing a law that banned policies based on such forecasts.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ence-on-sea-levels-so-passed-a-law-against-it

I don't really know what to say about this level of obstinate stupidity. I know that many, possibly most, of the people who live in high-risk areas want policies that protect them as much as possible, but why in hell do they keep voting for politicians who insist everyone bury their collective head in the sand?
 

Introversion

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Climate change has unfortunately moved out of the realm of science (no serious persons deny that’s actually happening today) and into the realm of policy, and thus to politics. That’s likely behind most of the obstinate conservative resistance to even discussing it, because then they must admit that addressing it’ll almost certainly require concerted governmental action around the world.

Of course, I’d never say there weren’t congressmen too stupid to grasp any of it *cough* Inhofe *cough*...
 
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tiddlywinks

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...because then they must admit that addressing it’ll almost certainly require concerted governmental action around the world...

You mean like sticking with the Paris COP 21 agreement? Instead of reneging on it like our fearless leader here in the US did? *sigh*
 

Introversion

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You mean like sticking with the Paris COP 21 agreement? Instead of reneging on it like our fearless leader here in the US did? *sigh*

BIGLY SOCIALISM!!! /sarc

I’m not holding my breath for the GOP to come to the reality table on the issue. I think they’d rather drown clutching their last grift from the fossil fuels industry.
 

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It's the same irony that applies to Houston, Texas, after Hurricane Harvey. And don't forget that Pat Robertson, the infamous televangelist from the very region now being hit by Florence, blamed Hurricane Katrina on homosexuality in New Orleans. Or Senator Jim Imhofe of Oklahoma, probably the U.S. Senate's most vocal climate change denier, who has maintained that God would not let climate change happen. In a state commonly ravaged, and many times in recent years, by tornadoes.

I have actually met a guy living in the town of Seward, Alaska, who denies that glaciers aren't receding, despite having a major National Park literally in the town's doorstep, with a major glacier locality marked by signs showing where the terminus of the thing has been over the last 100 years. It has receded three or four miles, which includes about a mile since I moved to Alaska 27 years ago. But, hey, for this guy, it's not happening.

People who believe this kind of merde are just plain immune to rational logic or argument.

caw
 

cbenoi1

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People who believe this kind of merde are just plain immune to rational logic or argument.

They don't believe what's happening is caused by mankind, therefore it's business as usual.

-cb
 

waylander

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They don't believe what's happening is caused by mankind, therefore it's business as usual.

-cb
Oh but they do! Human activities such as homosexuality, masturbation, not going to church......
 

cornflake

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It's the same irony that applies to Houston, Texas, after Hurricane Harvey. And don't forget that Pat Robertson, the infamous televangelist from the very region now being hit by Florence, blamed Hurricane Katrina on homosexuality in New Orleans. Or Senator Jim Imhofe of Oklahoma, probably the U.S. Senate's most vocal climate change denier, who has maintained that God would not let climate change happen. In a state commonly ravaged, and many times in recent years, by tornadoes.

I have actually met a guy living in the town of Seward, Alaska, who denies that glaciers aren't receding, despite having a major National Park literally in the town's doorstep, with a major glacier locality marked by signs showing where the terminus of the thing has been over the last 100 years. It has receded three or four miles, which includes about a mile since I moved to Alaska 27 years ago. But, hey, for this guy, it's not happening.

People who believe this kind of merde are just plain immune to rational logic or argument.

caw

I attended a lecture on climate change by a big climate scientist hooha; someone asked about deniers and he said he tells those people to go to Alaska and ask anyone, because people there are living it. Someone in the audience said 'Sarah Palin,' and the scientist amended to, 'ok, go ask *almost* anyone in Alaska.' So Sarah Palin and that guy.
 

regdog

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Just my opinion here. The reason why so many politicians don't believe in climate change and science is they are paid not to by their corporate donors. Those same donors don't like what science says about their industries impacts on the environment. Polluting is cheaper and easier.
 

gem1122

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Always follow the money, whether we're talking about Puerto Rico statehood, invading Iraq, or climate change. Money, money, money.
 

Roxxsmom

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Climate change has unfortunately moved out of the realm of science (no serious persons deny that’s actually happening today) and into the realm of policy, and thus to politics. That’s likely behind most of the obstinate conservative resistance to even discussing it, because then they must admit that addressing it’ll almost certainly require concerted governmental action around the world.

Of course, I’d never say there weren’t congressmen too stupid to grasp any of it *cough* Inhofe *cough*...

I think this is it for many people: when one's world view is firmly rooted in the idea that regulations and public programs are always bad, and the government (aka, the elected representatives of the people in a society) destroys everything it touches, admitting that there is a serious issue that can only be solved by governments (and cooperation between the governments of different countries at that), it's too terrifying to admit climate change is real. It can't be, because if it is, one of their most firmly held beliefs is wrong.

Or to put it another way, climate change is the ultimate tragedy of the commons, and conservatives don't seem to "believe in" that scenario anymore.

The question I have is why so darned many Americans feel this way compared to people in other countries, why the number of people who feel this way appears to have been growing over the last few decades, and why do so many live in the poorest parts of the country (which would benefit most from more federal spending on climate mitigation). I know we're a country of rugged individualists, but it seems to be getting worse.

Decades ago, the picture "Earthrise" helped the environmental movement get off the ground, because many realized that we're all passengers on a small, vulnerable planet. The pendulum swung back hard, because of course the ultra rich make less money if we have to protect the environment and conserve resources. But working class people vote for the politicians whose policies favor the people who have decided they want to get theirs while the getting is still good for them (and who think, rightly or wrongly, that their money will shield them from the worst effects of climate change).

What can be done about this issue before things get even worse?
 
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Diana Hignutt

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I think this is it for many people: when one's world view is firmly rooted in the idea that regulations and public programs are always bad, and the government (aka, the elected representatives of the people in a society) destroys everything it touches, admitting that there is a serious issue that can only be solved by governments (and cooperation between the governments of different countries at that), it's too terrifying to admit climate change is real. It can't be, because if it is, one of their most firmly held beliefs is wrong.

Or to put it another way, climate change is the ultimate tragedy of the commons, and conservatives don't seem to "believe in" that scenario anymore.

The question I have is why so darned many Americans feel this way compared to people in other countries, why the number of people who feel this way appears to have been growing over the last few decades, and why do so many live in the poorest parts of the country (which would benefit most from more federal spending on climate mitigation). I know we're a country of rugged individualists, but it seems to be getting worse.

Decades ago, the picture "Earthrise" helped the environmental movement get off the ground, because many realized that we're all passengers on a small, vulnerable planet. The pendulum swung back hard, because of course the ultra rich make less money if we have to protect the environment and conserve resources. But working class people vote for the politicians whose policies favor the people who have decided they want to get theirs while the getting is still good for them (and who think, rightly or wrongly, that their money will shield them from the worst effects of climate change).

What can be done about this issue before things get even worse?

Anti-Capitalist Revolution. But, it's not going to happen, so we will all die in pollution and weather extremes. Odds are we are past the turning point. And, some people believe that if we are past the turning point, then there is no point in mitigating the damages we are causing. The cynicism of late stage capitalism and the anti-science campaigns of the corporations and their religious cronies has doomed us, most likely.
 

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I attended a lecture on climate change by a big climate scientist hooha; someone asked about deniers and he said he tells those people to go to Alaska and ask anyone, because people there are living it. Someone in the audience said 'Sarah Palin,' and the scientist amended to, 'ok, go ask *almost* anyone in Alaska.' So Sarah Palin and that guy.

I live in Alaska. The retreat of sea ice from the northern and western coasts is so well-documented that to deny it is laughable. Glaciers are retreating every year, everywhere, and that too is plainly documented in many places, by signage. Permafrost is disappearing. Climate change deniers rank right up there with flat-earth adherents in their ability to close their brains to the obvious.

caw
 

Roxxsmom

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Climate change is scary. I get that. There is absolutely nothing any of us can do about it as individuals (unless we are rich enough to put our homes up on stilts unassisted or to move to an area where the impacts might be positive in the short term at least).

Individuals often feel helpless when it comes to doing things that make a difference, even when we kind of (at least) understand the science behind climate change and think it is sound. I know I still do many things that are contributing to the issue, but I lack the resources to move or get a job within biking distance of where I live etc. Some "wasteful" things I just can't give up because they are too meaningful to me (like having dogs and competing in a sport that involves driving them around to classes and competitions).

I can see why some people, especially when they lack the science background, prefer to bury their heads in the sand. Florence is proving that this approach isn't going to work, though. Rising sea levels don't care who you voted for. It should become increasingly clear in upcoming years that refusing to pay for mitigation and refusing to pass laws about where and how people can build, at least, is going to cost people more money in clean-up costs after each worsening disaster.

Everyone acts in their own self interest in various ways, even those of us who are very much on board with climate change. Waiting for everyone to change their purchasing, living and commuting habits individually won't work, but it's hard to know for sure which changes at the level of government policy will slow and reverse consumption patterns and enable people to make better choices. And when we have a whole generation now in charge (the X-ers and later baby boomers) who came of age in the Reagan and Bush mark I era, when taxes and regulations were popularly presented as evil, and selfishness was touted as a virtue, well...

There are some rays of hope, though. My own state, CA, has just affirmed a commitment to converting its power grid to zero carbon by the middle of the 21st century. I don't know if this is doable or not, or if the decision will stick through future governorships and state legislatures. I hope it does and that other states follow suit, especially if the federal government remains paralyzed.
 
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cbenoi1

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Individuals often feel helpless when it comes to doing things that make a difference, even when we kind of (at least) understand the science behind climate change and think it is sound.

It doesn't take a PhD in Biology to sort the trash into recycle, compost, and others. Or buy an electric or hybrid car. Or replace incandescent light bulbs with LEDs when they go out. Or bring your own grocery bags to the store.

It takes discipline. It takes leadership. And it takes courage.

-cb
 
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