Self-Publishing Challenges

Thanks for sharing that info about book sales. I've heard similar accounts from a lot of writers. There are wonderful applications for self-publishing: niche books that wouldn't pay to publish commercially but fill a need; backlist titles that have reverted to the writer; and genre series by writers who can produce more material, more quickly, than trade publishers can accommodate, to name a few. But in terms of money making, if you factor in the costs of producing the books and your own time spent writing, revising, producing, marketing, promoting, etc., the average s-p novelists would make more profit selling lemonade from a stand.

Published writers aren't exactly rolling in dough, either, but the odds are better.

Al X. said:

My budget for production is roughly $250 including editing and cover art. I do not expect to break even on my last two books, although, with ten works, overall I made a profit since I started in 2015.

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Really? How can anyone edit a book for under $250? I've been editing my whole adult life and I probably average 4-6 pages an hour, less if there are major issues. What serious, qualified editor would work for less than they'd make selling lemonade on the street?

I tend to think you get what you pay for.

Barbara R. said:

Really? How can anyone edit a book for under $250? I've been editing my whole adult life and I probably average 4-6 pages an hour, less if there are major issues. What serious, qualified editor would work for less than they'd make selling lemonade on the street?

I tend to think you get what you pay for.

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Obviously, she has to work faster than you, and no she is not perfect, but she's pretty good, and local, in California. I realize I'm getting a good deal for what I get. I will agree with you that the average low cost editor on Fiverr probably isn't very qualified. But I've gotten some smashing deals on cover artwork there.

I have paid editors $100-$500 dollars and got results equivalent to what legit small presses provided when I published with them. Which is not necessarily gold standard as the only customer review I ever had that criticized editing issues (proofreading) was with a small press.

I budget my books to go into profit within three years and that means the budget is what it is. I have to make up the difference by upskilling myself and doing exchanges of work with other indies. And the results meet my standards FWIW.

veinglory said:

I have paid editors $100-$500 dollars and got results equivalent to what legit small presses provided when I published with them. Which is not necessarily gold standard as the only customer review I ever had that criticized editing issues (proofreading) was with a small press.

I budget my books to go into profit within three years and that means the budget is what it is. I have to make up the difference by upskilling myself and doing exchanges of work with other indies. And the results meet my standards FWIW.

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I admire the entrepreneurship and professionalism you bring to the project. But I'm still flummoxed by the idea of editing for pennies. Do we mean the same thing by editing, I wonder? There are so many different kinds. For some it's just copy-editing; for others it's concept editing and fixing big picture stuff like pacing, structure, characterization. You need someone quite skilled for concept editing, IMO. A lot of times it's not just about fixing what's on the page but also seeing what's not on the page but should be. Copy-editing is more mechanical---but a good copy editor also looks for consistency (blue-eyed heroines shouldn't suddenly develop brown eyes) and style, diving much deeper than just fixing grammatical and spelling errors.

I'm a slow worker, it's true. But even if I were twice as fast as I am, editing a whole book for a few hundred dollars makes no sense to me. Once again I conclude that publishing and self-publishing are two different industries.

I mean whatever takes the book from where it is to publishable--they may be reverted books which are pretty easy--or new ones. I work with two different editors for works averaging about 40k. My agreement with them is that if it needs more work than I have budgeted they let me know and I develop it more through beta. So far this has happened once. The publishers' editors I worked with previously got me pretty well trained.

There are different types of editors and different speeds. Those who work on indie novellas have found a way to make it work. I can't say I have every discussed it with them. It's one pass with tracked changes and a written half page report. Substantial issues are indicated with options given and not fixed. Then it is back to me.

There's a certain amount of attitude concerning editing and self-publishing on AW, and FWIW, please stop.

I revise and edit A LOT. And I know the difference between the two.

Now, some of my extensive edits have been self-inflicted. I wrote seven novels before I had a clue about marketability. The list of my errors was daunting--developmental story blarts, line edit problems (mostly with too-common verbs), and I had to research commas to the point that I know why I use every one.

I had a lot of growing to do as a writer. I still have areas that I'm trying hard to hone my skills. I keep promising myself that the better I get, the less time this whole process will take.

I did hire a developmental editor once. I won't say her name here because I was disappointed, but you'd recognize it if you read fantasy and you're involved in the trade. She's a well-respected trade editor.

And she wasn't as good as my beta friends. Not even close. It's not something I want to spend another grand on.

I know there's a lot about people who go out and pub a book a month, and it's hard to wrap my mind around how that could be a quality product. But I've read the Look Insides of some of these books, and they're not bad. I would've taken another pass on it, but I would've done that for most trade books, too. I've sold or given away over 90% of the books I've bought, and that doesn't count the ones that never made it out of the bookstore. And all of those were trade pubbed.

While I can't wrap my head around the idea that I'd be able to write anything worthwhile at a book per month pace, I can see myself getting up to three-four books a year as my skills improve. Until that happy time, my standard is that I only want to publish something if I think I'll still be proud of it in ten years.

For whatever reason, I get off on making things beautiful. My garden. Buying an unloved house and restoring it is something I love doing, although for obvious financial reasons, I can't engage in this activity as much as I'd like. But that attitude is what I bring to my books.

Editing is really my biggest problem when it comes to writing, and feel free to suggest solutions, please, anyone. Right now, my drafting is finally to the point that three beta reads will get it done, but that's not any three random beta readers. If you pop into SYW and pick three excellent LBLs, you'll have an idea of the level I'm talking about. Most of my beta readers come from the SYW boards, and the one who doesn't used to be a trade published author who's very articulate about story, line edits, and proofreading.

When I'm beta reading, I crawl into that story and poke and prod until I lose the will to live. Then I take my dogs for a walk and do it some more. This is no superficial fixing of commas and catching a few weak verbs. This is throwing my whole self into what I can do to make this story that someone has trusted me with better. I'm going to give them everything I have. It's their job to sort out what they can use and make sure they keep their voice along the way. And the reverse is true.

But all this takes time--lots of it. You're doing everything twice. Because as soon as I'm done with their book, then it's time to incorporate their critique into my work, and that part is always hard, at least for me. Again, every word goes on probation. I have mental arguments with myself. Sometimes I say "Screw it--I love that phrase, and I'm keeping it." But doing that takes courage. Not only is it mentally draining, but incorporating critique is emotionally draining as well, at least for me.

Anyway, in terms of money, I don't think you could pay me enough to do this. I only do it for my particular form of reciprocal love. Editing an 80k novel takes me two weeks (I just finished two, so this info is pretty current.) I would LOVE to find someone who I could just send money to and they would perform this service for me. Our construction business actually does fairly well, and I've got a couple of rental houses out of the house-restoring hobby. I can't afford to waste much, but money's not a huge concern.

Maybe some day my writing will reach the point that I'm confident enough in it that I can hire someone. The important thing now for me is to polish until it sparkles. Don't get sloppy and practice the wrong things. Make it beautiful. Hopefully, beauty can become a habit like any other.

To circle back to the main reason I started this post, please don't over-generalize concerning self-publishers. Not all of us have the same system. That doesn't mean that I don't care deeply about producing a a well-written book.

Thanks, and I hope this doesn't come across as too combative. That wasn't my intent.

We do get a certain number of comments that suggest that any self-publisher who doesn't perfectly mimic trade publishing, down to spending thousands of dollars on it, isn't worth anything. It might be said in a nicer way with more words, but that's the gist of it. That's not how it's going to work for most self-publishers. We don't have the same access to editing, marketing, book store placement, and all the rest. We're not comparing services to what the big publishers can do, but to other services that are actually available for us.

For editing, I have friends/family who go through the books. One does developmental comments and one does copyediting. I'm open to skill-swapping if I find someone where we're on the same page about things. I have systems for self-editing, including my own editing manual with common mistakes to check. It's not what trade published authors do, because I'm self-published.

Cost isn't the only concern. I've yet to find a high-priced editor where I liked their sample. I felt too many of them were trying to get to a certain trade published feel. Not in quality terms, but in voice, storytelling conventions, and all the rest. An example would be one that cut any slower parts from their sample, because they were clearly trying to turn it into a page-turner with action on every page. It's not worth saving for an expensive editor unless the editor gets what the author is trying to do with the book. It's not that easy to find that editor.

Really, a the overwhelming majority of proofreading falls back on me. My process is this:

1. Finish the novel.
2. Do a proofing run. I find this works best if I upload it to KDP, download the MOBI file, then use the Kindle emulator.
3. Send it to my editor.
4. Accept the changes in the Word document, and address her comments in order. Revise as necessary. Correct. Address. If it isn't clear in her mind, it isn't clear to the reader. I don't respond. I just make sure that the question raised will not be a question from the reader.
5. Upload the edited version to KDP. This time I send the MOBI to my Kindle device. Which is the Kindle app on my Ipad.
6. Spend the next few days critically reading. I tend to find the most errors when I am drunk in the bar.
7. Rinse, repeat until I cannot find any more errors.

This process has served me well on my last few.

I edit for a living (journalism, very fast-paced), and I don’t think I could edit a novel for $250-500. Maybe if I got practice in doing it super-fast and worked out a system, I don’t know. But it’s hard to imagine earning a living that way.

On the other side... I have a dirty little secret I don’t tell my editor friends. If I self-published, I probably wouldn’t hire an editor. Work with CPs? Hire a cover artist? Absolutely. I know I can ID a good cover, but I can’t design one.

Editing, though? On the proofing/copyediting side, I’m good. It’s probably the only skill I feel genuinely confident of having: I can produce clean copy. I know I can benefit from developmental editing, because the editor of my trade published book transformed that book in a good way. It was a wonderful experience that I’m so very glad I had, and I will forever be in awe of her skill.

But if I were self-publishing (which I have thought about), I would be doing it for one of two reasons: (1) no trade editors liked this book enough to buy it or (2) the book is in a genre particularly suited to self-publishing. I wouldn’t expect to make back my investment. I wouldn’t have the time or the money to find the best top-level editor for me. I’d probably work with betas or CPs, ones who are authors in my genre and do aggressive content editing, and take my chances.

So, yeah. If the average person asked me about self-publishing, I’d say they should hire an editor. Because I have seen a lot of self-published books, and the vast majority needed more editing than they got. (Yes, that’s also true of many small press and even some Big Five books, but it’s a larger problem with the random sample of self-pubbed books I’ve seen.) However, I probably would not take my own advice. (“Probably” because, well, never say never.) Cathleen and Polenth, I see where you’re coming from.

I self-edit, use a few good beta readers and three different friend/family proofreaders who are well qualified. I also listen to my book using a read-aloud program, and I do that both on a scene-by-scene basis while editing, and at a faster pace through the whole book for those word-overuse, forest/trees, and continuity issues. I avail myself of programs like Grammarly & Pro Writing Aid to help polish my writing, keeping in mind that one can't rely on those programs unless one already has decent writing chops. They frequently get things wrong.

My degree is in journalism, and my lifelong career in marketing has demanded constant writing, revising and editing. Editing other people's writing has helped me tremendously in learning to edit my own.

Like Cathleen T, I cannot imagine churning out a book a month even if I didn't work outside the home. I enjoy producing something I can take pride in, and I already have a career with good income.

I self-edit because after being trade published twice with minimal edits to my manuscripts, I feel confident in my abilities. (Developmental editing is invaluable, however.) Writing books isn't the problem and all the other aspects of SP can be learned or purchased. What we can't account for is the sudden, weird, unexpected changes in Amazon algos that tank sales. That's where I am now. None of the rest of it matters because out of the blue, sales drop like a stone. Glitches have the power to wipe out a mortgage payment.

The Amazon algo thing is a compelling reason to go wide, so we're not so dependent on one retailer, but that can be fraught with pitfalls, too. Does anyone here remember all the dewy-eyed hope over the Kobo-Walmart partnership earlier this year?

If you didn't hear about it, the buzz on kboards was full of hopeful speculation. But the few comments made before kboards was sold indicated no significant change. Folks who were doing well at Kobo continued to do so, but there weren't any spectacular sales surges.

I've read that Barnes and Noble is also for sale, although that's second-hand information from another forum. Still, if it's true, and someone savvy to best SP practices buys it, that could be a powerful platform.

Right now if you're wide, the best advice I've read (from Patty Jansen, although others have said similar things) is that you must build an email list. You have to drive the traffic if you're trying to market on multiple retailers.

The consensus for people on KU seems to be to get super-accomplished at AMS ads, or whatever they're calling them these days, although that's a solution that's gradually becoming less effective.

Circling back to the OP's question--challenges involved in self-pubbing--one of the biggest is staying on top of changes that affect your marketing. Forums make that prospect a whole lot more possible.

I'm just gonna say it: if you are a control freak like me, go for self publishing. This means more than just your story, but as far as time, energy, and how its marketed.

Echoing similar comments, be prepared to pay for that control with a lot of research and patience.