So, is it cool that I submit different manuscripts to same Literary agent?

PSkertich81

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The last thing I want to do is make the agent stab their eyes out. They see my name. "Great, this dude again," they mutter underneath their breath.

While I'm waiting on responses from my other manuscript, I'm writing another manuscript. If I stay laser focused, I can get it done within a month or two months. Why? Um... I have no life. Really, I don't. Anyways, would it be acceptable to submit my new manuscript after I'm done revising the heck out of it and polishing it?
I was just curious to see what you amazing people think. :)
 

Katrina S. Forest

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Seconding Marissa. And based on personal experience, even when I think, "I can totally have this done in a month!" it never, ever happens like that. For one, beta readers will take at least that long to give feedback. (Unless you've got super speedy beta-readers at the ready. In which case... can I borrow them? ^_^)

If you find yourself in the fortunate position of having the book completely finished and polished within a month, there will be plenty of other agents to submit to while you're putting some time between your old submission and your new one.

Best of luck!
 

Roxxsmom

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I can think of another reason to wait before subbing the second novel: if the first manuscript is met with a load of rejections, you can use the experience and any feedback you might receive to modify your approach to querying the second. This could include changing the way you construct query letters to changing some things about the second manuscript.

Conversely, if the first manuscript wins an agent, they will likely be interested in seeing the second one (assuming it is the same genre, or a genre they work with).
 

PSkertich81

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I can think of another reason to wait before subbing the second novel: if the first manuscript is met with a load of rejections, you can use the experience and any feedback you might receive to modify your approach to querying the second. This could include changing the way you construct query letters to changing some things about the second manuscript.

Conversely, if the first manuscript wins an agent, they will likely be interested in seeing the second one (assuming it is the same genre, or a genre they work with).

thanks! I love your response. Also, your doggy too. It's so cute! When I get more feedback from the first manuscript, I'll have a better idea on what to change, and what I can improve upon. Just like you said. :) If the first manuscript goes well and the publisher does do sci-fi and horror, I'll definitely bring it up to them when it comes time. I'm trying to keep busy until then.
 

PSkertich81

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Seconding Marissa. And based on personal experience, even when I think, "I can totally have this done in a month!" it never, ever happens like that. For one, beta readers will take at least that long to give feedback. (Unless you've got super speedy beta-readers at the ready. In which case... can I borrow them? ^_^)

If you find yourself in the fortunate position of having the book completely finished and polished within a month, there will be plenty of other agents to submit to while you're putting some time between your old submission and your new one.

Best of luck!

I agree. My first manuscript 83K words was completed in two months after three revisions and a polish. I have kind of a trust issue. Copyright takes about 10 months or more. I don't feel like handing over my hard work to a beta-reader and find out months down a road that my idea was stolen. Long ago, I wasn't so smart and gave a director a screenplay. He told me it was absolute garbage. Months or more a year later, I see a DVD called: "God Send". I'm not entirely sure if there was an original and it was rebooted. But the plot was similar to mine. Only, less graphic. The director knew Robert Deniro from previous of films he has worked with him on. Issue is that either the director died, but I can't find him whatsoever. Long ago, after I noticed the "God Send" movie was on DVD. I called his phone, and a woman told me he didn't live there. I don't know. On the DVD extras. The screen writers talked about how crappy the screenplay was and had to be redone. But, yeah, in case my idea was stolen. It did make me so warm to trusting others with my project. I'm not entirely sure if literacy agents do the same thing, or if publishers do the same. If the idea is stolen, it has to be good. Right? I guess that's one plus to think about it.

Thanks for the reply! :)
 

mccardey

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I agree. My first manuscript 83K words was completed in two months after three revisions and a polish. I have kind of a trust issue. Copyright takes about 10 months or more. I don't feel like handing over my hard work to a beta-reader and find out months down a road that my idea was stolen. Long ago, I wasn't so smart and gave a director a screenplay. He told me it was absolute garbage. Months or more a year later, I see a DVD called: "God Send". I'm not entirely sure if there was an original and it was rebooted. But the plot was similar to mine. Only, less graphic. The director knew Robert Deniro from previous of films he has worked with him on. Issue is that either the director died, but I can't find him whatsoever. Long ago, after I noticed the "God Send" movie was on DVD. I called his phone, and a woman told me he didn't live there. I don't know. On the DVD extras. The screen writers talked about how crappy the screenplay was and had to be redone. But, yeah, in case my idea was stolen. It did make me so warm to trusting others with my project. I'm not entirely sure if literacy agents do the same thing, or if publishers do the same. If the idea is stolen, it has to be good. Right? I guess that's one plus to think about it.

Thanks for the reply! :)

It's vanishingly unlikely that a beta-reader would steal your project. Writers have their own projects to work on. And I'm not sure what you mean by
Copyright takes about 10 months or more.

I think stick around and read a lot and you'll pick up some valuable info.
 

PSkertich81

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It's vanishingly unlikely that a beta-reader would steal your project. Writers have their own projects to work on. And I'm not sure what you mean by

I think stick around and read a lot and you'll pick up some valuable info.

The copyright office takes about 10 months or more to send out a enclosed envelope. "The House on Elm" is registered on copyright.org because I thought it had to be done. I understand anything that is created on the computer is automatically copyright. But, it is hard to prove in court. "The House on Elm" was my first novel self-published.

Now, do you know what I'm talking about? :)
 

lizmonster

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But, it is hard to prove in court.

I don't know that this is true. With all the zillion drafts I've got on my hard drive, I'm pretty sure I could easily prove ownership of my work without involving the copyright office at all.

Registering a copyright, as far as I know, might get you more damages, but I don't think it "proves" anything on its own.

Also...have you considered that the more beta readers you use, the more witnesses you'll have that your work is your own?
 

Marissa D

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Agreeing with mccardey--writers generally have their own stories to work on. They're not likely to be interested in stealing yours.

And...umm...you've been scammed. That site you used charges about twice what it actually costs to register a copyright with the government (which usually only takes 2-4 months, btw.) Also, you can't copyright an idea--only the words that express the idea. And no, reputable literary agents and publishers don't steal books. They wouldn't be in business very long if they pulled shenanigans like that.
 

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I agree. My first manuscript 83K words was completed in two months after three revisions and a polish. I have kind of a trust issue. Copyright takes about 10 months or more. I don't feel like handing over my hard work to a beta-reader and find out months down a road that my idea was stolen. Long ago, I wasn't so smart and gave a director a screenplay. He told me it was absolute garbage. Months or more a year later, I see a DVD called: "God Send". I'm not entirely sure if there was an original and it was rebooted. But the plot was similar to mine. Only, less graphic. The director knew Robert Deniro from previous of films he has worked with him on. Issue is that either the director died, but I can't find him whatsoever. Long ago, after I noticed the "God Send" movie was on DVD. I called his phone, and a woman told me he didn't live there. I don't know. On the DVD extras. The screen writers talked about how crappy the screenplay was and had to be redone. But, yeah, in case my idea was stolen. It did make me so warm to trusting others with my project. I'm not entirely sure if literacy agents do the same thing, or if publishers do the same. If the idea is stolen, it has to be good. Right? I guess that's one plus to think about it.

Thanks for the reply! :)

Stealing an idea is meaningless.

Give six writers the exact same idea and you'll get six entirely different books.

Stealing entire manuscripts is just... dumb. It's fairly easy to prove who wrote something, especially given that many people write utilizing computers. You have copyright when you write anything, by hand, on a computer, whatever. Yes, you would need to prove it was yours if someone stole it but the incidences of people stealing manuscripts and passing them off as their own isn't really a thing.
 

Roxxsmom

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The copyright office takes about 10 months or more to send out a enclosed envelope. "The House on Elm" is registered on copyright.org because I thought it had to be done. I understand anything that is created on the computer is automatically copyright. But, it is hard to prove in court. "The House on Elm" was my first novel self-published.

Now, do you know what I'm talking about? :)

A story or novel is copyrighted as soon as you write it, in the US at least. It's really not necessary to register an unpublished novel with the US copyright office. People are not lining up to plagiarize the work of unpublished writers. Established authors get copied now and again, but given the humongous crapshoot that publishing success (let alone making much money off a novel) represents, crooks and cheats tend to look to much more lucrative endeavors.

https://www.sfwa.org/other-resources/for-authors/writer-beware/copyright/

the benefits of having critiquing partners (via a group or workshop) and beta readers outweighs any risk of someone stealing your work, imo. Actually, the more people you collaborate with while writing, the more people there are who could testify that it is indeed your story or novel, in the unlikely event of someone submitting your manuscript as their own.

Also, as others have said, no one owns ideas. Stealing ideas really isn't a big issue in fiction writing, because ten people could receive the same general idea or premise as a writing prompt, and they would come up with ten very different stories. It's actually why writing prompts are kind of fun.
 
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Helix

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I agree. My first manuscript 83K words was completed in two months after three revisions and a polish. I have kind of a trust issue. Copyright takes about 10 months or more. I don't feel like handing over my hard work to a beta-reader and find out months down a road that my idea was stolen. Long ago, I wasn't so smart and gave a director a screenplay. He told me it was absolute garbage. Months or more a year later, I see a DVD called: "God Send". I'm not entirely sure if there was an original and it was rebooted. But the plot was similar to mine. Only, less graphic. The director knew Robert Deniro from previous of films he has worked with him on. Issue is that either the director died, but I can't find him whatsoever. Long ago, after I noticed the "God Send" movie was on DVD. I called his phone, and a woman told me he didn't live there. I don't know. On the DVD extras. The screen writers talked about how crappy the screenplay was and had to be redone. But, yeah, in case my idea was stolen. It did make me so warm to trusting others with my project. I'm not entirely sure if literacy agents do the same thing, or if publishers do the same. If the idea is stolen, it has to be good. Right? I guess that's one plus to think about it.

Thanks for the reply! :)

This one? Lucky escape, I'd say. :gone:

Honestly, similar ideas pop up all the time, but that doesn't mean that they're stolen -- whatever stolen means for ideas.
 

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Just keep the drafts on the computer or even mail yourself a copy of the manuscript and keep it somewhere,.

Get an official (Justice of the Peace or a Police officer) to notarise a few pages in the document, won't take more than five minutes.

You can't copyright ideas unfortunately. Don't give things to directors/publishers, have an agent do that for you, because then they can chase down moneys on your behalf if there's a hint on things having gone the wrong way.

Ask William Gibson about the Matrix movies, or Jeff Long about Cliffhanger. All ideas get stolen. The only way to protect yourself is if the screenplay/novel is so well written that whomever is stealing it wants more from the original source.
 
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Harlequin

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Mailing yourself a copy of the MS does not hold up in court (this is known as Poor Man's copyright and is a very pervasive myth).

The copyright is yours by default, registering it just means you can sue for damages later on down the road but the time to do that is after it's been accepted for publication.
 

Treehouseman

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Mailing yourself a copy of the MS does not hold up in court (this is known as Poor Man's copyright and is a very pervasive myth).

The copyright is yours by default, registering it just means you can sue for damages later on down the road but the time to do that is after it's been accepted for publication.

"Mail yourself a copy" is a psychological balm, not a legal one. We all know there's copyright on publication, but some folks need that extra security otherwise they're spending time and money on nonsense. It's a no harm, no foul. Besides, in the most egregious of cases, publication hasn't been help either (shrug)
 

Harlequin

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I appreciate the pov for sure, but I always feel compelled to outline that as I don't want anyone to think it is a form of legal security. Bringing a mailed copy into a court case is likely to do more harm than good in many (if not all) cases
 

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An email to the thief is better evidence in court than a copyright document because it proves the thief had knowledge of your work. You can pressure someone to stop selling something that it identical to your copyright, but you will not receive much in damages unless you can prove that the theft was intentional and calculated. Similarly, manslaughter is punishable, but not as punishable as first-degree murder. Intent isn't necessary for actions to be taken, but it is necessary for the best outcome in your favor.

The only time that intellectual property is truly vulnerable is when it is posted online anonymously or left unattended in public. If every other scenario, you should have no problem proving that you exchanged your property with the thief.
 

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An easily-forged email is better evidence than a certified copy of a document registered with an official government agency because...?
 

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I paid an editor to review my first MS and she gave me lukewarm feedback, charged me $500, and stole my ideas for her second and third novels. It's a thing. Only share with trusted readers. Copyrighting it doesn't help much in the case of novels, it only really protects true plagiarism. If the author changes the ideas superficially, they can get away with it. In my case, she stole my characters' identities and the themes of my novel. It really bothers me to this day. I put that MS aside and am almost finished with my second MS. I'm not making the same mistake again by sharing it with folks I don't know very well.
 

Gen5150

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An easily-forged email is better evidence than a certified copy of a document registered with an official government agency because...?

You would not merely show up to court with screenshots . . . Emails can be verified by service providers.


I paid an editor to review my first MS and she gave me lukewarm feedback, charged me $500, and stole my ideas for her second and third novels. It's a thing. Only share with trusted readers. Copyrighting it doesn't help much in the case of novels, it only really protects true plagiarism. If the author changes the ideas superficially, they can get away with it. In my case, she stole my characters' identities and the themes of my novel. It really bothers me to this day. I put that MS aside and am almost finished with my second MS. I'm not making the same mistake again by sharing it with folks I don't know very well.

This is absolutely a valid concern. You are not likely to get far by running away with a stolen manuscript, but concepts can absolutely be written into another manuscript. I understand the stance that ideas are worthless without good execution, but I do not believe that is a fair blanket statement. For example, good mystery plots can be agonizing to piece together. This might be controversial, but I would feel more comfortable sending high-concept fiction to editors/betas who are not active writers. Some editors/beta site their writing accomplishments as reasons to send them your work, but I'm not writing novels to the writing community. I'm writing for the general public.
 

BenPanced

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You would not merely show up to court with screenshots . . . Emails can be verified by service providers.

Not sure where you're getting that information but it can be a pain in the ass to subpoena and add additional fees/time to a claim that can be processed with a copy of the registration, which the author receives for their records for just such an emergency. (Trust me; I work with financial transactions that require proof of ownership through various means of registration, legal documents such as a trust agreement, a power of attorney/letters testamentary, or death certificates. Somebody has sent us a transaction two or three times demanding we pay her but according to the paperwork she includes, she's not entitled. She keeps sending a letter stating that the deceased owner gave her the securities free and clear so we have to pay her. Play on endless loop.)

TL;DR version: it's not that simple. Nothing ever is in legal matters.

P.S.) This is advisable in cases of actual plagiarism. As far as "idea theft" goes, that's another ball of wax entirely. Because one person's version of an idea is completely different than another's, it's next to impossible to prove person A stole an idea from person B.
 
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You would not merely show up to court with screenshots . . . Emails can be verified by service providers.




This is absolutely a valid concern. You are not likely to get far by running away with a stolen manuscript, but concepts can absolutely be written into another manuscript. I understand the stance that ideas are worthless without good execution, but I do not believe that is a fair blanket statement. For example, good mystery plots can be agonizing to piece together. This might be controversial, but I would feel more comfortable sending high-concept fiction to editors/betas who are not active writers. Some editors/beta site their writing accomplishments as reasons to send them your work, but I'm not writing novels to the writing community. I'm writing for the general public.

You seem to be laboring under a woeful misunderstanding of how copyright actually functions, and how case actually work.

Concepts are in and of themselves not copywriteable. Neither are plots. It is the specific expression, the actual words of the text, not the elements of the plot, that are protected.

If you are in fact concerned about protecting your copyright there are two things that you would need to prove, at a minimum.

1. That you are responsible for the creation of the work. This involves not only evidence (drafts with your notes and hand writing, a series of dated drafts, notes and research) but supporting evidence in the form of correspondence with editors, beta readers, etc. This is tied to asserting your copyright. If you are going to sue, register the work before you do. There's a time limit, and the penalties are greater if you win for a work you have registered.

2. That your unique expression has been illicitly used. This means proving the similarities in the expression (the words and sentences) rather than just the plot. This is actually the hardest part in terms of convincing the jury.

3. An unpublished work by an unknown isn't generally worth much; you need to prove that you have financially suffered.



IANAL. This is not legal advice. I've just been at and involved in a fair number of copyright cases as an expert witness.