Definition and characteristics of Literary Fiction (Moved from SYW literary)

Status
Not open for further replies.

A.graye

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
604
Reaction score
263
I just realized something. When I offered to peep the first few pages, I was under the impression that this was some form of Spec Fic, but it seems the genre has reverted back to literary. Out of curiosity, what makes you call this a literary? Literary =/= pretty sentences alone. I was told that when I first started out years ago, but, uh… no. No, pretty sentences=voice or style, not necessarily genre (though it can exclude novels from sub/genres). I learned that there are a few more requirements than voice to be literary (just like there are a few more requirements than boy meets girl, boy falls for girl, boy tries to get girl to date him to be Romance). And mine fit firmly as fantasy.

I don’t read literary or romance, which is why I’m reluctant to critique anything in those genres. I could very well give an opinion that contradicts the criteria of the genre. So I don’t know if this sort of verbiage is normal for literary. However, while literary novels tend to focus on prose more than plot, that doesn’t mean that everything is spelled out, filters are present, descriptions are tedious, etc. It’s okay to let your readers imagine most of the room for themselves, but it’s fine to focus on the characteristics (such as the crack in the piano).

I’m sure a lot of us who are contributing probably aren’t literary readers or writers, which is downright dangerous. My recommendation would be to find someone who reads literary with a passion, who knows the genre inside out, and see what they have to say. Thrillers—you can’t get away with flowery prose, it’s got to be fast paced and exciting. Thrillers can’t spend two pages describing a room. So thriller readers and writers would inappropriately critique your sample if they aren’t familiar with literary. Then again, verbiage alone doesn’t make a book literary, it just makes it verbose.

You’ve got to find someone who knows the genre inside and out, who specializes in it, and you’ve got to see whether you’ve got a whole lot of fat (not literary) or if you’ve got the right amount of fat, but the wrong kind of fat (literary, but focused on the wrong things). I can’t answer that for you, I wish I could. I’m so sorry.

The reason I say you need to find a literary reader is because I once saw someone tell a fantasy writer to eliminate the magic in the query and call the dragon an “animal.” Said person didn’t read fantasy. And I saw a (non-Romance) critiquer tell a romance writer to stop focusing on the relationship and stick to the-non romance conflict in their query. These are terrible TERRIBLE suggestions that never should have been uttered. Please, please do yourself a favor and find a literary reader. It’s such a small niche, but I don’t feel comfortable telling you what to do with the voice if that’s how a literary novel is supposed to look, and I don’t know enough about the genre to come to that conclusion.

As a spec fic, I stand by my critique. As a literary, I stand by most of it, but you may need to revisit the “fluff” I strikethroughed and said there were simpler ways of putting things. Focusing on pretty sentences=/=minutiae or confusion, BUT pretty prose=a colorful way of saying something, even if there is a simpler way of putting it.

Just—consult with someone who specializes in literary to see if this novel fits that genre. I can't move forward if there's a chance I'll give you inappropriate advice. But that's just me.
 

A.graye

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
604
Reaction score
263
I’m sure a lot of us who are contributing probably aren’t literary readers or writers, which is downright dangerous.

I just want to clarify, I'm not negating anyone's critique or telling you not to listen (I echo a lot of what was said). This quote more so applies to the necessity of obtaining potentially genre-specific feedback from people who are more familiar.

Because you don't know how to categorize this piece, you're clearly unfamiliar with the genre. And if you're unfamiliar with the genre, you're playing with fire by putting yourself in a situation where you may be unintentionally misled. You've got to seek out those who are practically married to the genre for guidance.

I don't devalue the opinions you got here, and I hope you don't either. What a fine bunch of folks to take time out of their day in order to help a fellow writer. But
I urge you to find a few people who can help you define "literary" more precisely, and show you how your sample fits in (and where it doesn't), because I am at the end of my expertise. And I don't want to unintentionally mislead you.

<3 Have a lovely evening.


 

Harlequin

Eat books, not brains!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 21, 2010
Messages
4,584
Reaction score
1,412
Location
The land from whence the shadows fall
Website
www.sunyidean.com
Elle is a literary reader/writer for definite. I read literary, and spec fic, and literary spec fic. I'm fairly sure conrflake is too, and perhaps others.

Not claiming to be an expert but I didn't get a clear sense of genre from the excerpt.
 

A.graye

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
604
Reaction score
263
That's excellent, and something good to know for the future.

Maybe you guys can please oh please explain to me what literary is, and what it *must* contain. I've got ideas, but no one I've met has a clear-cut definition, and none of theirs are the same.

From what I've gathered, it can be defined as serious fiction that's more of an essay in novel-form with pretty, and sometimes academic, prose which makes you feel like you've stepped into the 1800s. There's a plot, but more focus is on the writing, and it doesn't matter whether you fully understand the plot, so long as you're enjoying the sentences (I once read that some literary novels have no plot, or the plot is lost in the sentences).

I've read articles that claim literary is serious and is focused on current affairs or issues and, therefore, has no spec fic elements, and I've read articles that claim literary is genre fiction, but beautified (to which, I raise an eyebrow. Beauty=subjective).

I'm uncomfortable with commenting on pieces whose genre I'm unfamiliar with (aside from telling them my overall reaction), sooooo if you've got a second to shed some light, I'd appreciate it.

If not, that's cool, too.

But, I'm tired of reading articles written by people who've read an article written by someone who doesn't write literary.
 
Last edited:

Harlequin

Eat books, not brains!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 21, 2010
Messages
4,584
Reaction score
1,412
Location
The land from whence the shadows fall
Website
www.sunyidean.com
There is no hard definition because it is nebulous. One woman's literary novel is another's log for the fire.

Literary is more of a spectrum, IMO. SUBJECTIVE OPINIONS TO FOLLOW, consider yourself warned:

Neil Gaiman novels have some literary elements but aren't fully literary. Gene Wolfe is fully literary. David Gemmel is not literary at all. (Picked three writers I all enjoy.)

Pride and Prejudice has literary elements. Mrs Dalloway is classed as literary. Bridget Jones Diary isn't literary. (Tried to pick books with similar themes to illustrate the idea).

Really, any novel can have literary as a descriptor. But literary as a genre refers to contemporary or mainstream novels that don't fall into other categories, and are elevated above general fiction by quality of prose, depth of commentary, and subject matter. Execution is everything. It is absolutely nebulous, and for aspiring literary writers there will always be the fear od uncertainty--not knowing if you "count" as literary. By contrast, I am always completely sure that I "count" as sff because my genre is largely defined by setting elements and I am free to plugin literary aspects or not, at my leisure.
 

A.graye

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
604
Reaction score
263
Welp,

I know the next 6 books I'm going to be renting from the library...

Bram Stoker's Dracula. What would you classify that (if you read it)?

Thanks for your explanation. The examples with similar plots/themes help.
 

Marian Perera

starting over
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 29, 2006
Messages
14,354
Reaction score
4,661
Location
Heaven is a place on earth called Toronto.
Website
www.marianperera.com
Literary is more of a spectrum, IMO. SUBJECTIVE OPINIONS TO FOLLOW, consider yourself warned:

Neil Gaiman novels have some literary elements but aren't fully literary. Gene Wolfe is fully literary. David Gemmel is not literary at all. (Picked three writers I all enjoy.)

It's definitely a spectrum, and subjective. Can be complicated even more by the fact that authors don't stay at the same place on that spectrum. Watership Down isn't literary, but The Girl in a Swing (both by the same author) has literary-esque prose. Laurie Halse Anderson's Wintergirls feels literary to me, but her novel Catalyst didn't.
 

ap123

Twitching
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 4, 2007
Messages
5,651
Reaction score
1,736
Location
In the 212
I read and write literary (in addition to some spec fic/magical realism). I'm going to jump in only because I've seen people told no one should categorize their work as literary, that's up to time and the publishing industry. Not true. Lit fic is a genre, and when we query, there are agents who look for it and rep it, same as any other.

I'll try to define, but I neither teach nor did I ever formally study any of this, so I don't know the correct terminology. :)

Literary has an emphasis on language and style. This does not mean pretty sentences--in other words it can, but doesn't necessarily mean flowery. It does not mean the language is unclear or confusing. Those books where you stop and reread a sentence/paragraph because it's so damned perfect? Literary. An example jumping to mind is Delicious Foods, by James Hannaham.

Literary can be experimental, but it often isn't. If a story focuses on the experimental aspect to the point where the story can't be followed, it isn't literary.

Literary emphasizes the theme of the story in a way strict genre fiction doesn't. All stories have a theme, but in literary, all scenes/characters serve the theme, which is generally related to the human condition--human nature, or society (which is why so many of the best sff are also literary). Literary still has a plot, but the plot isn't necessarily the driving force. Literary always has a strong narrative voice, and is generally character "driven."

One suggestion I have echoes A.graye-- if you view this as/want this to be literary, you need critters who read and write literary--but I'd add that I've found it to be helpful to also have critters/betas (when it's ready for beta reading) who read and write other genres, bc ime different genre writers have different strengths, hearing and learning from different viewpoints helps to strengthen the entire mss, regardless of what it is I'm writing. In other words, if I've written something literary, yes, I want literary critters bc I need people who are familiar with the norms, but I also like having romance critters bc strong romance writers do dialogue so very, very well, know how to pay attention to the smallest gestures btw people, SFF folks have the knowledge and experience with world building, which is essential to every story whether it takes place on Mars or doesn't move from a living room sofa. People who write mystery/thrillers/suspense offer strong insights on plotting and conflict. People who write horror know how to keep a reader at the edge of their seat.

What we emphasize will depend on the genre (yes, including literary) we're writing, but no story is complete without all of these aspects--characters, theme, plot, dialogue, world building, conflict, etc.
 

A.graye

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
604
Reaction score
263
Well said, AP.

I read a post that said "Your CPs don't need to write or read the same genre you do," and I had a heart attack. At least one or two should.

And, I agree, people from different genres offer an array of different strengths.

And, as Marian concisely put it, it boils down to knowing your genre.

Thank you ladies for your input, and I'm... still not as clear with literary, but glad to know my hunch that it's more of a *feeling* than a clear-cut definition was right. (I think...?)
 

ap123

Twitching
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 4, 2007
Messages
5,651
Reaction score
1,736
Location
In the 212
I'd say it's more than a feeling, but the definition is squishy.
 

Harlequin

Eat books, not brains!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 21, 2010
Messages
4,584
Reaction score
1,412
Location
The land from whence the shadows fall
Website
www.sunyidean.com
I mean... literary critics can't agree on what's literary, so :p

I can guarantee you that a LOT of literary fiction critic types would howl with rage to see "just" an sff writer like Wolfe listed as literary. And even more of them would probably come after me with sharp pens for saying P&P isn't really literary.

Basically a lot of it is up for debate and people have different thresholds.
 

Curlz

cutsie-pie
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Messages
2,213
Reaction score
382
Location
here
But, I'm tired of reading articles written by people who've read an article written by someone who doesn't write literary.
Then perhaps choose your sources better? There are established places that write about the literary genre. On the other hand, forums are places where everybody can have an opinion and often those opinions are based on other forum posts, so it's kinda going in a circle, the same information is repeated and debated while the truth is elsewhere ;) Or, you know, instead of trying to read about the literary genre, if you are interested in it then just read some of the literary genre's books.
 

Elle.

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Messages
1,272
Reaction score
734
Location
United Kingdom
Harlequin is correct, I read a lot literary fiction and I'd like to think what I write is literary and ap123's definition of literary is quite a good one.

I think it's healthy to get critiques from writers from a different genre than yours, the same way it's useful for a write to read different genre than yours. Critiques from someone coming from another genre than mine might help me consider an angle that I didn't think of as a literary writer, or where I need to make things clearer, but I also know what to disregard, for example when someone tells me be more on the nose or not to worry so much about the language. Like Maria mentioned she know to disregard irrelevant feedback that don't fit the romance genre.

At the end of the day, literary fiction is like any other genre, it's a spectrum which can go from "soft literary fiction" to a high literary fiction which can be very experimental, but the best way to become familiar with the genre is to read for literary fiction.
 

AW Admin

Administrator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 19, 2008
Messages
18,772
Reaction score
6,286
I've moved these posts from SYW Literary since they were derailing a focus on the OP's excerpt.

If you really want to discuss this, PM me and I'll consider reopening it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.