What Fiction Writers Are Getting Deals With Publishers?

I'm unpublished, but this is demonstrably untrue. Debut novels aren't unicorns.

https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw...ch-fall-2018-anticipated-debuts.html?consumer

https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/book-deals/index.html

John Falcon said:

For people with experience in the publishing industry, how accurate would you say this video is:

What Fiction Writers Are Getting Deals With New York Today? - YouTube Video

In the above video, Michael Levin basically explains that these days the only way for first-time writers to get published is after they have self-published and built a formidable social media presence. He goes as far as to say that sometimes agents don't even read MS from first time novelists because they feel heartbroken, since sometimes the work is great but they can't get it published.

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That's utter bullshit.

Agents LOVE debut authors. Being a debut author is a nice banner -- everyone likes the hot new thing. It has certainly happened that someone has gotten a big trade deal off a self-pub success (Hi, Andy Weir), but it's much, much more rare than debut authors getting deals through agents they queried.

Didn't watch the video, but his assertion is laughably false on its face. Publishers love debut novelists. I was one a few years ago, and there are a bunch here on AW any day of the week.

I honestly don't know where this rumor started, and how it stays alive. If it were true, there'd be about six total writers being published.

Is this the Michael Levin who offers a ghost writing service?

So completely not true. I got an agent and publishing deal from a big 5 publisher for my debut. I have a low to mediocre social media following and have never self published. I have virtually no platform. All a debut needs is a really good book and a hint of luck.

Very untrue, and unfortunately a very common lie that I see circulating in indie author groups regularly. Among others.

A quick search on publisher's weekly under "debut" (it has its own category) will show you plenty of debut novellists, and no they do not all have vast social media presences nor self publishes novels to claim. I mean, some may do, but social media presence is very useful for specific genres and books, and not so necessary for others.

Plenty of debut or formerly debut authors kicking around.

Yeah, I don't really buy what he's laying down. Seems to me this might be a case of him using this argument to augment the amount of people who want him to ghostwrite self-published works.

Just my amateur 0.02c!

John Falcon said:

Yes, I think he mentions that in other videos.

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Given that the content is generally false, I wonder what his motivation for making this video could possibly be ...

FJaneH said:

So completely not true. I got an agent and publishing deal from a big 5 publisher for my debut. I have a low to mediocre social media following and have never self published. I have virtually no platform. All a debut needs is a really good book and a hint of luck.

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Great info. I agree; mostly quality and a little luck.

Given that this person entitled the video "What Fiction Writers..." and not "Which Fiction Writers...," I have little faith in anything he has to say about writing. The world is full of people with agendas who also are walking poster children for the Dunning-Kruger effect, and I'm guessing the person who made this video is one of them.

John Falcon said:

Yes, I think he mentions that in other videos.

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In other words, he's an unreliable source. He's telling unpublished writers that publishers don't buy debut novels in order to promote his services.

And yes, this is a blatantly false assertion.

I spent a year where I focused my reading on debut writers in just one genre (SF and F) and I still couldn't keep up with what was coming out.

Debuts get published every day. As others have said, you need to have a good book, and luck plays a role too (I suspect it's more than a small role, since a given book landing on the right desk at the right time is a huge thing, but that's splitting hairs). There's no service for writers that can guarantee results. If there were, every writer would be using those services and everyone would be getting published.

I think for people that are right here on AW, wondering about the truth of these claims, this simplest thing is to simply look at or ask fellow AW alumnus. Doesn't really matter which genre it is, there are PLENTY of AW writers that have debuted here without being self-published previously, or built up a big social media platform.

Shoeless said:

Doesn't really matter which genre it is, there are PLENTY of AW writers that have debuted here without being self-published previously, or built up a big social media platform.

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I was told explicitly my social media presence didn't matter.

Now, I actually think ignoring social media is NOT a good idea (and that was likely lousy advice); but given that at the time I got 13 hits on my blog on a really, really good day, I can tell you for certain my publisher didn't consider social media when they decided to offer on my book.

lizmonster said:

I was told explicitly my social media presence didn't matter.

Now, I actually think ignoring social media is NOT a good idea (and that was likely lousy advice); but given that at the time I got 13 hits on my blog on a really, really good day, I can tell you for certain my publisher didn't consider social media when they decided to offer on my book.

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I'm actually quite curious to see how social media and it's value/importance is going to morph in time. Right Twitter is the big thing, and my own agent even went so far as to tell I needed to create a Twitter account after she signed me on last year, because I only really had an account with Google+, which more or less doesn't count. But social media in the form of Twitter and Facebook can't last forever, so it'll be interesting to see what new forms/events eventually overtake social media as we understand and use it right now, and how that will affect future writers in attempting to engage with the audience. I can't imagine authors will still be using Twitter 30 years from now, but at the same time, can't yet even guess at what might replace it.

Another nobody author who cold-queried and got a "deal with New York" here. I dunno. Maybe when this guy says "a deal" he means a huge deal, something in the $1 million range. But even then, I could point to debut novelists who have obtained such deals. It's not common, but why would it be? If we're looking at five- and six-figure advances, I could point to a whole lot of people.

I heard a related myth from a writing coach: "New York will publish an unknown like you—maybe, if you're lucky—but you won't get an advance. That doesn't happen anymore." It does.

I watched the video. Beyond the obvious, some interesting assertions here:

— Book reviews and the newspapers that publish them are dying. Sadly, there's truth here (though I can attest that newspapers still publish book reviews, with alt-weeklies taking up some of the slack). But what about book blogs? Goodreads? BookTube? Print media aren't the only place for publishers to get the word out, and smart publicists know that.

— If you self-publish a novel and sell 5000 to 8000 copies, publishers will come calling. I was under the impression the number was considerably higher, especially if we're talking about e-books. Selling 5000 to 8000 print copies of a commercial title isn't a success for most trade publishers, or so I've been led to understand.

— Writers have always needed to self-promote — look at Charles Dickens! Well, that's true enough, I suppose, in a very general sense. And you will probably have to do some self-promotion if you get a trade deal. But what a successful self-publisher does seems to be on a whole different level. And, for the record, I didn't even have a website when my book sold. No blog. Just a Twitter account. If you Googled my name, you'd immediately find my journalism, but I don't think anybody considered that a "platform" for a YA writer.

Shoeless said:

I'm actually quite curious to see how social media and it's value/importance is going to morph in time.

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To be clear, I don't think social media has gained me a lot of sales, although I've certainly had a handful of people tell me they got curious when they saw me tweeting on other subjects. I do think people expect to be able to find you on places like Twitter and Facebook, if only as a first place to check when looking for other information. (I actually didn't realize my web site had no contact information until someone found me on FB to ask for my professional email addy.)

As for what'll be around in 30 years? Well, 30 years ago I was on Usenet, which was...a lot like AW, but without the graphics. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

lizmonster said:

To be clear, I don't think social media has gained me a lot of sales, although I've certainly had a handful of people tell me they got curious when they saw me tweeting on other subjects. I do think people expect to be able to find you on places like Twitter and Facebook, if only as a first place to check when looking for other information. (I actually didn't realize my web site had no contact information until someone found me on FB to ask for my professional email addy.)

As for what'll be around in 30 years? Well, 30 years ago I was on Usenet, which was...a lot like AW, but without the graphics. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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I bought The Cold Between because of your posts on AW; I bought the other two in an effort to find out what happened next . . .

AW Admin said:

I bought The Cold Between because of your posts on AW; I bought the other two in an effort to find out what happened next . . .

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Thank you.

Online is much easier for me than face to face. I acquit myself OK, I think - I'm told I come across all right - but I get very nervous and I babble a bit. But online I can think about what I'm saying, and I'm far less shy about going on...and on...and on...

John Falcon said:

Okay, I see what you mean, but he's not saying "Don't write your own novel," he saying to first try to have success through self-publishing and build a social media following, then try to publish.

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Self-publishing is publishing. And I balk a bit at the idea it should be considered some kind of ladder-climbing thing rather than its own valid, valuable, and satisfying business venture.

I know a number of authors who both trade- and self-publish due to different goals for different projects. I know of a few whose self-publishing success led directly to trade deals. But their numbers are dwarfed by the number of trade-published debuts.

Telling people to self-publish because it'll give them a leg up with a trade publisher is terrible advice, and won't work for the vast majority of writers. The fact that he's selling something may be orthogonal to the fact that his advice is bad. But it sure doesn't make him look reliable, or especially ethical.