Is it better to join a writer's critique group after finishing a first draft?

That depends on your goals. Critiques can help a writer know what to focus on in a work. As you're trying not to edit while writing, I think you're better keeping your work to yourself until the first draft is complete.

Yeah, if your problem is editing (aka picking at things), you're probably better off waiting, but, in the meantime, as Maryn says, critique for others in the group. The more you know the group, the better you will be able to assess their critiques of your work when the time comes.

There are pros and cons.

Pros:

If you're having trouble moving forward, having a critique group that expects new scenes from you on a regular basis can be motivating. You will also learn from critiquing and being critiqued, and can apply what you learn as you continue to write new material. If you have bad habits, those can be addressed so that the critique group doesn't have to keep pointing them out over and over. So there's actually quite a lot to be said about being critiqued as you write.

Cons--

Not everyone finds it useful to get critiques on early drafts. It could be counter-productive if it hurts your confidence and discourages you from moving forward, or causes you to freeze up, become self-conscious, or be fearful of making mistakes. In that case you need to keep working on your own until you're ready to let others see it and comment on it.

For structural edits of plot, pacing, characterization, etc., it's best to have a complete draft and employ a few beta readers.

coffeehunter said:

Okay. Some professionals told me never to edit when writing.

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That's a very individual thing, actually, and there's nothing wrong with it unless it prevents you from writing new material. For some writers (me, for instance), it's the only way they write.

I love critique groups and they don't stop me from writing new stuff.

The chapters that have been through critique groups are stronger than the chapters that have not.

Critiquing allows you to look at others' work too, which is useful. It can shake a few neurons loose in your brain if you have any kind of writing block. It can let you make forward progress on your writing in a separate area than wherever you happen to be.

Try it. It might work. If it doesn't work, stop.

coffeehunter said:

Okay. Some professionals told me never to edit when writing, and I'm learning they're right. I think joining a critique group too early will keep me in editing mode. I'd rather keep things in sequential order. Thanks.

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That might very well work for you and whomever told you that. But I edit constantly because that is what works for me. (I may be the only one here to use the adverb, constantly, in that sentence. )I learn new things, then edit, learn more, edit more.

One thing I don't do is take every critique suggestion to heart. The advice has to make sense to me. And if it doesn't, I sometimes do a writing advice search on the topic and try to understand the concepts better.

If you found a critique group you like, I don't think you can lose by joining them. If you don't want to edit until you've completed a good draft, take notes. I do that too. You can go back to the notes any time.

As mentioned by others, editing while writing is subjective. Some may avoid it, but others advocate for it. Nathan Bransford (former literary agent, current children's author) advocates for editing as you go, for instance: https://blog.nathanbransford.com/2018/03/how-to-edit-your-novel

A major pro of editing as you go is that you can identify problems that might snowball later on. If you start with a story element that you don't love, or doesn't work, and then write the rest of the novel, changing a plot point early on might require that you rewrite a significant portion of the book later on that alludes to this early event. Sometimes these might be simple changes, but other times it could be a significant headache. At the very least, asking yourself if the content and overall format of your story is "working" would be helpful - though nitpicky copyedit style editing until you're blue in the face might be counter-productive.

I'm currently rewriting a novel I had originally wrote years ago, and I'm finding the small writer's community I'm in to be useful to me. Getting feedback about what things work as you go is helpful, especially in the early chapters, for that reason. I can try to avoid making the same mistakes later on down the line. Plus, as others have mentioned, it can be a good motivator, in the same way that joining a band is a good motivator to learn how to play the guitar. When you have to learn songs and play with others, it forces you to practice (and do), whereas left to your own devices, you might have a bit less motivation.

Also, as others have said, critiquing other people's work is a tremendous learning tool. Sometimes other people grit their teeth about having to read and critique other people's work in order to get the opportunity to have their own work critiqued, but I think that's a pretty silly perspective, since the act of critiquing someone else's work definitely helps put one's own writing into perspective.

I have an online critique group where I shop everything in depth.

I also attend a local physical group but more for the social aspect. They only meet once a month, critting a chapter at a time, and realistically that is too slow for me.

You won't know till you try it. If you don't find the experience helpful... leave.

I realized after my post that I haven't joined every group I've tried. So for all the advice you are getting to try it, including my own, it may be a bad mix. Some people just tear stuff apart without any thought, and some people share excerpts that I can't unsee but I wish I could.

So, not all critiques are created equal, after all. But finding people that you click with who also know how to critique well is good.

And so are your instincts.

It's really hard to answer a general question about a writer's process. There is a ton of variation with regards to what works "best." Some writers prefer to write an entire first draft, and maybe even subsequent drafts, before they solicit feedback from other writers. Others benefit from regular feedback as they construct their story and fiddle with things like viewpoint, voice and so on.

The only caution is that writer's groups can sometimes give confusing and conflicting feedback, and some people will confidently state that their own preferences are inviolate rules, or they may make assumptions about what one is attempting to do. This can get complicated if one's own plot, viewpoint, style and voice evolve as the story is being created. Also, critting partners who are offering feedback as the story unfolds may become confused if the author makes some major changes as the story unfolds. Communication is important here.

One peril of soliciting feedback as a story is being written is the constant restarting phenomenon--where critting partners get to read the opening chapter or chapters over and over again because the writer keeps editing and changing them (based on the feedback they receive) without ever finishing the story. There are ways to avoid this issue as well, but it can be challenging.

For instance, when talking about "drafts" there is often an assumption that one outlines so they know the major story elements and plot beforehand, then writes a complete first draft, then polishes it as a second, then writes a third or final draft. But many styles of writing don't create complete and distinct drafts, including various forms of pantsing or editing as one goes. Some people write their novels out of order too. Some adopt a chapter structure from the start, where others work in scenes and only decide where chapters should break later.

MaeZe said:

One thing I don't do is take every critique suggestion to heart.

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This may be the most important piece of advice on this thread. I've learned a lot from critiques over the years and I've also gotten plenty of bad suggestions. I know everyone wants to help, but you have to decide for yourself if their ideas are better than yours, and not simply assume they know more than you do.

I edit as I go. I can't help it, as I usually re-read where I left off, and tighten or fix things. The one thing to avoid is getting all the form correct. As Roxxsmom says, some people don't split chapters right away, and I definitely don't unless I know it's got a great hook. Then it's chapter blah till I get the rest divided.

You don't need to address typos till you're done. There can be major changes after you reach the end, especially if you pants. Wait till you have the draft where all the parts are in place to go that detailed on the edits.

I find all crits helpful in all the ways listed above. I find the community here to be helpful in so many ways, as there's lots of differing opinions, and lots of different critters on the things you post. I haven't tried a physical group yet, but I can see that if everyone was writing a different genre, that may make the crits harder to discern. Posting here has a chance to reach everyone.

I do agree, if you need to do a major overhaul of your early chapters because you hit a hot twist you didn't expect, you don't always have to do that right away. Keep going and see if there's other things that will need changes first, then you won't have to do multiple edits.

Hope anything helps! As stated above, each writer's journey is different. This is what I've found works for me.

nickj47 said:

This may be the most important piece of advice on this thread.

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Oh yes. For sure. Don't be quick to make changes, either. Study it for awhile before deciding what to do.

I find that a critique group/circle/community is beneficial at any stage of the game. They offer valuable insight that can help make ALL of your work better.

Just my 0.02c!

I think the most important thing with a critique group is that they're a good fit for your writing/editing style. And sometimes it's hard to get a sense of that without giving them a try. For example, I feel stressed out in groups where there's a lot of pressure to have a fresh chapter on a regular basis, because I'm a slower writer and I don't always write in order. But a group that was more informal or where I could submit other things from time to time could be a better fit for me.