YA themes in Middle Grade Books

MS KIKI

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It seems that so many YA themes are sneaking into MG books. Does it appear that way to anyone else?
 

MS KIKI

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I don't have any titles on the tip of my tongue, but I have noticed that trend in review publications. It seems like mg is getting more "sophisticated". Mg used to be more Little House on the Prairie and now some stories are getting into the I-don't-like-my daddy's-boyfriend area.

Have you noticed that change? What are your thoughts?
 

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I don't have any titles on the tip of my tongue, but I have noticed that trend in review publications. It seems like mg is getting more "sophisticated". Mg used to be more Little House on the Prairie and now some stories are getting into the I-don't-like-my daddy's-boyfriend area.

Have you noticed that change? What are your thoughts?

That writers are choosing topical and relate-able subjects for their stories? Without specific titles to read, I don't have many more thoughts than that.

There's nothing about a mother's annoying/unlike-able/abusive boyfriend that makes a plot specifically or exclusively YA.

The question remains: What specific authors/titles are crossing over into a YA style of story-telling that publishers are marketing to MG readers? What reviews can you link to as evidence that something has changed?
 

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I don't have any titles on the tip of my tongue, but I have noticed that trend in review publications. It seems like mg is getting more "sophisticated". Mg used to be more Little House on the Prairie and now some stories are getting into the I-don't-like-my daddy's-boyfriend area.

Have you noticed that change? What are your thoughts?

Ah yes, Little House on the Prairie. The book that says "There were no people” on the prairie . . . “Only Indians lived there.” And other delightful examples of ignorance and bigotry. Which, especially in 1935, wasn't that big a deal, if you were white. But it's not exactly a book a Navajo or Hopi or other First Nations child needs to read, unless it's read in context.

A lot of kids have dads with boyfriends, partners or husbands. Or their best friend does. Or two moms. Or a Catholic mom and a Jewish father. Or maybe they're kids with divorced parents. Or maybe they have a dog that got run over by a car, or have a best friend who's great at sports but not so good at math.

Why shouldn't books represent lived experience? It's a big world.
 

MS KIKI

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A lot of kids have dads with boyfriends, partners or husbands. Or their best friend does. Or two moms.

A lot? Do you have statistics to support your view?
JK. ...it's your opinion, and I'm fine with that. :)

Some educators and parents might be uncomfortable discussing such a "sophisticated" book with 8-12 yr olds. No statistical support just personal experience.
 
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Bufty

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In this day and age you surely don't need statistics to support that observation about dads.

I assume JK means 'just kidding'. Hmmmm.

A lot? Do you have statistics to support your view?
JK. ...it's your opinion, and I'm fine with that. :)

Some educators and parents might be uncomfortable discussing such a "sophisticated" book with 8-12 yr olds. No statistical support just personal experience.
 
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A lot? Do you have statistics to support your view?
JK. ...it's your opinion, and I'm fine with that. :)

Some educators and parents might be uncomfortable discussing such a "sophisticated" book with 8-12 yr olds. No statistical support just personal experience.


You know you might want to look at current kids books, and spend some time in a middle grade class room, or the children's section of a library.

Kids' books about LGBT characters and families don't talk about hot sex; they talk about people and families and relationships. And they're pretty common these days, just as same-sex parents and trans kids are. It's not "sophisticated"; it is reality based.

While there are lots of bigots and homophobic people in the world, and they are absolutely welcome to restrict their children's reading, there are fewer of them than there are people who don't care and think love is love.

There are lots of sites ranging from bookstores featuring LAMBDA award winners to educational organizations and libraries with LGBT reccs for middle grade and YA.

Right now, there are agents and publishers and book-buyers looking particularly for middle-grade books with LGBT characters, families and themes, since there's more picture books and YA books than there are middle grade books.

See for instance this Twitter discussion from Jessica Faust of Book Ends Literary
 

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It seems that so many YA themes are sneaking into MG books. Does it appear that way to anyone else?

What themes do you mean?

What books?

Ramona's dad lost his job and she worried about their finances.
 

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A lot? Do you have statistics to support your view?
JK. ...it's your opinion, and I'm fine with that. :)

It's an opinion that there are kids with two parents of the same gender? Or have friends who have them? Or have parents who are on the LGBT spectrum? I mean this is from census.gov, so maybe it's some sort of accurate, or maybe you don't think 2 million+ kids are a lot.

And do those kids not deserve to see themselves and their friends in books that are written for their age group?
 

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Just tried it as you quoted it, and it worked.

2 million kids isn't a lot?
 

MS KIKI

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You know you might want to look at current kids books, and spend some time in a middle grade class room, or the children's section of a library.

You are speaking to someone who has 30 yrs experience in this area. ;)
 

MS KIKI

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Just tried it as you quoted it, and it worked.

Maybe if you post the link in a different way I can read it.

Some educators and parents might be uncomfortable discussing such a "sophisticated" book with 8-12 yr olds. That might make you uncomfortable hearing that, but that's how it is.
 

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Some educators and parents might be uncomfortable discussing such a "sophisticated" book with 8-12 yr olds. That might make you uncomfortable hearing that, but that's how it is.

I've also had parents and educators tell me they want books with 'No black faces'. What they want to expose kids to is up to them, but I don't think the issue is "sophistication".
 

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In what other way would you like the link to be posted? I found it by Googling "how many same-sex parents are there in the us" and chose the first response, which went to the U.S. census bureau, if you want to find out how I found it. :Shrug: Here, let me help: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+many+same+sex+parents+are+there+in+the+us

Some educators and parents might be uncomfortable discussing such a "sophisticated" book with 8-12 yr olds.

You said that already. It's clearly your go-to line. What makes a book written with a MC with same-sex parents more "sophisticated" than one with the same plot and writing style but the MC has cishet parents?

Educators and parents who are uncomfortable with it don't have to provide the book to those kids, since most MG-aged readers don't buy their own books, especially those whose parents or educators would censor what they read. It does not make me uncomfortable to hear that people are homophobic and don't want to talk about LGBTQIA issues that their kids can see in their own lives. It might make you uncomfortable to hear me call those people "homophobic," but they are.

The MG (or YA) market today is not what it was 30 years ago. Thank goodness.
 

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I don't have any titles on the tip of my tongue, but I have noticed that trend in review publications. It seems like mg is getting more "sophisticated". Mg used to be more Little House on the Prairie and now some stories are getting into the I-don't-like-my daddy's-boyfriend area.

Have you noticed that change? What are your thoughts?

A lot? Do you have statistics to support your view?
JK. ...it's your opinion, and I'm fine with that. :)

Some educators and parents might be uncomfortable discussing such a "sophisticated" book with 8-12 yr olds. No statistical support just personal experience.

Maybe if you post the link in a different way I can read it.

Some educators and parents might be uncomfortable discussing such a "sophisticated" book with 8-12 yr olds. That might make you uncomfortable hearing that, but that's how it is.

You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

Of course, if you're trying to suggest that certain kinds of parental combinations are unnatural? Well, that's just not on. Because, you know, facts.

1997

2005

2013
 

MS KIKI

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I appreciate your opinions. All of them.
 
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cornflake

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Maybe if you post the link in a different way I can read it.

Some educators and parents might be uncomfortable discussing such a "sophisticated" book with 8-12 yr olds. That might make you uncomfortable hearing that, but that's how it is.

How is a book in which the random kid's parents are of the same sex sophisticated?
 

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I appreciate your opinions. All of them.

Just saying that things are "opinions" doesn't make them so. You asked for facts, giving none yourself, and never address when people post facts, nor answer any questions posed to you.

But let me ask you this anyway. You state that some parents and educators don't want to discuss why the MC has two dads. And you're right, some don't. But some parents and educators do want to discuss why the MC has two dads. Why do those who don't want it hold more importance to you than those who do?
 

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Kids in school now are going to know kids who have same-sex parents. They're possibly going to have same-sex parents themselves. They're going to know interracial families with mixed religions, blended families, and kids who identify as LGBT.

  • There are over 1 million legally married same-sex couples in the U.S. alone.
  • Some more statistics:
  • Approximately 4.3% of adults in the U.S. identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender or queer (LGBTQ). That means that there are more than 10.7 million LGBTQ adults in the U.S.
  • Among LGBTQ adults under 50 living alone or with a spouse or partner, 48% of women and 20% of men are raising a child who is under 18 years old
  • LGBTQ people and same-sex couples are more likely to foster and adopt than their non-LGBTQ counterparts. Same-sex couples are six times more likely to foster children, and at least 4 times more likely to adopt.

See especially: Gates, Gary J. "Marriage and Family: LGBT Individuals and Same-Sex Couples." The Future of Children. Vol. 25 No. 2: 67–87. Fall, 2015 for data about same-sex parents with children.

You are speaking to someone who has 30 yrs experience in this area. ;)

I was certified to teach K-12 in 1983.

I started working as a literacy volunteer with kids in libraries in 1976.

I started working in publishing in 1990.

I absolutely know that there are more people who aren't homophobic than there are people horrified by the very concept of same-sex relationships, and families. 2014 pretty much proved that in the United States.

Yes, some parents are not going to want their kids exposed to same-sex marriage, male penguins raising a baby penguin, or books with Black people or Jews or divorced parents or inter-racial families or Walloons. That's their business. Just like it's the business of parents who do want their kids reading about the real world to help their kids find those books.

Some teachers don't want allow those books in their classrooms. Or, frankly, those kids.

But there are publishers and literary agents and parents and kids and teachers and kids who do want them. Quite desperately, sometimes. Now that may not be sophisticated but it is human.

And someone needs to write those books. Because their readership isn't declining; it's growing.
 
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Sage

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You're reading things that aren't there.

Times you have argued that we must consider the parents and educators who don't want kids reading books that touch upon LGBTQIA issues:
Some educators and parents might be uncomfortable discussing such a "sophisticated" book with 8-12 yr olds. No statistical support just personal experience.

Some educators and parents might be uncomfortable discussing such a "sophisticated" book with 8-12 yr olds. That might make you uncomfortable hearing that, but that's how it is.

Times you have argued that we must consider the parents and educators who do:

*crickets*

I'm reading exactly what's there.
 

owlion

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No, that's not an opinion. It happens.
The wording "a lot" is up for discussion. BTW your link does not work.
How much do you consider to be a lot? Over 2 million in the US alone is a significant number (and those are just the reported numbers).

I'd also like to know why, in your opinion, those books are considered 'sophisticated'.