The fiction part in historical fiction

Elenitsa

writing as Marina Costa
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
976
Reaction score
764
Location
Bucharest, Romania
Website
caribbeandawn1720.jcink.net
Historical fiction is not a historical chronicle. It deals with things which might have been possible, but they aren't mentioned (because most likely they haven't happened). As long as the known facts are respected, I think historical fiction can navigate between them...

For example, in my case I am writing a war story about a hero who put a flag on the cityhall. I think all the wars and places have one. And yes, the young hero had existed. He was a sublieutenant in 1918.

The historical facts are that he brought the troops he commanded, made order in town, chased the enemies away, he put the flag on the cityhall and protected the people until the bigger army arrived, 3 days later. He first lodged at a hotel in the city centre (its name is known), then an university professor who was in the City Committee invited him to stay at his house and he accepted.

All these are known facts, and I am keeping them all. I think I have leeway to add fictional facts to the story which don't change this. Things which might have happened, even if they didn't. (And assumed they were true, nobody could know about them). E.g. a brief, private discussion (brief as in an exchange of 2 phrases) with the waitress who brings him dinner while still at the hotel. Nobody was there to hear and document it. It could have happened, exactly like, in Alexandre Dumas' "Three Mousquetaires", the discussion between Queen Anne and the Duke of Buckingham (diamond jewels offered included) might have happened in reality or, most likely not... and nobody was there to witness and say. (And since at the ball she wore the diamond jewels... they could have been brought back by d'Artagnan indeed, or not having left the palace at all, in reality).

What do you say? I think it is OK. My husband thinks that somebody might object.
 

frimble3

Heckuva good sport
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
11,574
Reaction score
6,396
Location
west coast, canada
A couple of phrases between a man eating and a waitress? No more unlikely, or memorable than him having a few words with the groom who holds his horse, as he mounts on the way to battle.
Sounds fine, I wouldn't blink if I read it.

Unless it's something like "Here are the plans of the fortifications" and "Thank you. Here's the bag of gold I promised."
Something that changes the course of history.
 

Tocotin

deceives
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
2,250
Reaction score
1,895
Location
Tokyo, waiting for typhoons
I think it's all right too. Historical or not, it's called fiction for a reason. I think that the believable rendering of the period – of its material culture, its mindset, the particular locality where the story is set etc. – is more important than even getting the historical facts right, with the caveat that you change/omit things on purpose, not out of ignorance.

Historical fiction is not a historical chronicle. It deals with things which might have been possible, but they aren't mentioned (because most likely they haven't happened). As long as the known facts are respected, I think historical fiction can navigate between them...

Yes, and I don't think the facts are to be respected to the extent of crippling the too well-behaved writer. If you know the particular period inside and out, you can play with it, as long as you acknowledge it up front and accept all the consequences. You can ignore a part of history, you can change it, you can show a historical personage in a different light or a different place, anything goes as long as it serves your story, and is believable and true to the times as well.
 

Elenitsa

writing as Marina Costa
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
976
Reaction score
764
Location
Bucharest, Romania
Website
caribbeandawn1720.jcink.net
I am not changing the known facts. Not the slightest. Maybe I add a hidden reason more for some of the known decisions.

No, it isn't "here is the key of the fortress." It's just "Eat but don't drink!" :) so a poisoning attempt which is warned. (And about which he wouldn't tell anyone). If in truth the poisoning didn't happen... it didn't happen in the story either, so... the words might have been said (if there was a reason) or not. And reasons for enemies to want the commander dead and the troops headless... there would have been plenty.

And being warned about a poisoning attempt, he would have had even more reasons not to remain in the hotel for the night (as it had happened, accepting the professor's invitation). I think it would have been wrong only if I had him question the waitress who would have confessed that X among the enemy leaders had given her the poison. (So undeservedly accusing of unfair fighting a known historical figure). As long as I had left it ambiguous which of the enemies, it is Ok.

Again, I wouldn't change the course of known facts neither three days later, when the bigger army arrived, with its general (who in truth got all the laurels of taking the town, who was actually taken by the sublieutenant 3 days before) and the sublieutenant had bought all the flowers in the market in that day, giving them to the town women to receive the army with flowers. That is in the chronicles. How big a bouquet, during this endeavour, the warning waitress had received, that's up to me ;) and not changing the known facts.
 
Last edited:

mrsfauthor

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 30, 2017
Messages
101
Reaction score
12
Location
Northeast USA
Historical fiction is not a historical chronicle. It deals with things which might have been possible, but they aren't mentioned (because most likely they haven't happened). As long as the known facts are respected, I think historical fiction can navigate between them...

For example, in my case I am writing a war story about a hero who put a flag on the cityhall. I think all the wars and places have one. And yes, the young hero had existed. He was a sublieutenant in 1918.

The historical facts are that he brought the troops he commanded, made order in town, chased the enemies away, he put the flag on the cityhall and protected the people until the bigger army arrived, 3 days later. He first lodged at a hotel in the city centre (its name is known), then an university professor who was in the City Committee invited him to stay at his house and he accepted.

All these are known facts, and I am keeping them all. I think I have leeway to add fictional facts to the story which don't change this. Things which might have happened, even if they didn't. (And assumed they were true, nobody could know about them). E.g. a brief, private discussion (brief as in an exchange of 2 phrases) with the waitress who brings him dinner while still at the hotel. Nobody was there to hear and document it. It could have happened, exactly like, in Alexandre Dumas' "Three Mousquetaires", the discussion between Queen Anne and the Duke of Buckingham (diamond jewels offered included) might have happened in reality or, most likely not... and nobody was there to witness and say. (And since at the ball she wore the diamond jewels... they could have been brought back by d'Artagnan indeed, or not having left the palace at all, in reality).

What do you say? I think it is OK. My husband thinks that somebody might object.

Did you ever see the show Timeless? Each episode is a fictionalized portrayal of history. Anyone from JFK to Benedict Arnold, famous musicians, race car drivers, etc. are there. Some are portrayed in nasty dealings. I think it is all fine. I'm writing about a historical figure myself and fictionalizing personality and life choices though not the facts of her accomplishments. It is a struggle to put myself in that person's mind and create their personal world. My mentor said, just write the book you want to write. If you need to alter things later, you can do that.
 

Siri Kirpal

Swan in Process
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
8,943
Reaction score
3,151
Location
In God I dwell, especially in Eugene OR
Sat Nam! (Literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

Adding things that nobody knows about that don't mess with the historical record are the reason historical fiction exists. Go ahead and do it.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal
 

Sonsofthepharaohs

Still writing the ancient Egyptian tetralogy
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
5,260
Reaction score
2,673
Location
UK
Yes, you've basically just described what historical fiction is - keeping the unalterable facts intact, but playing fast and loose with everything in between. You can invent people, conversations, whole sub plots between the lines. But as you rightly say, if you attribute something fictional to a real person, you might come unstuck. That's more of an issue when the event is recent, and the real person in question might have living relatives. Less problematic the further back you go.

I write about ancient Egypt, and there is so much that we don't know, so many gaps in the archaeological record - in fact there isn't even a definitive chronology of the pharaohs' reigns, let alone understanding of how the transitions between them occurred - so there is a lot to play with. And I do just that :greenie
 

Lakey

professional dilettante
Staff member
Super Moderator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 20, 2017
Messages
2,714
Reaction score
3,965
Location
New England
Yes, you've basically just described what historical fiction is - keeping the unalterable facts intact, but playing fast and loose with everything in between. You can invent people, conversations, whole sub plots between the lines. But as you rightly say, if you attribute something fictional to a real person, you might come unstuck. That's more of an issue when the event is recent, and the real person in question might have living relatives. Less problematic the further back you go.

Kallithrix's is spot-on. What you are describing, Elenitsa, is what authors of historical fiction do, especially those who write fiction with real historical personages as characters. You take a chance when you introduce real personages, and you're never going to please everyone. But if you're true to what's known about the personage and his/her actions, and write a good story, most of your readers will understand that you are embellishing the historical record for the purposes of your story. Again, countless authors of historical fiction have done exactly this.

There's a blog post here complaining about some of the liberties that Tracy Chevalier took with a particular relationship in her novel Remarkable Creatures. But it's still a good and successful book, even though a specialist reader with a lot of specialist knowledge was uncomfortable with it. Experienced readers of historical fiction know to take everything they read with a grain of salt, to look for the heart of truth in the story rather than rigor in the details.
 

mrsfauthor

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 30, 2017
Messages
101
Reaction score
12
Location
Northeast USA
I think Timeless was never broadcasted to my country. It doesn't seem familiar at all.

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were from Bucharest, didn't read your profile note. It is a story of people who use a time machine to go back to certain eras to try to stop particular things from happening. It's just okay but my husband enjoys it so I watch. For example, they go back to the Revolution and stop George Washington from doing something that would change the course of history while trying to maintain the most important events that occurred. Interesting concept.
 

Masel

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 11, 2018
Messages
54
Reaction score
3
Location
Missouri
Trust your readers. Yes, there is that one person who did a thesis on the topic who will object but are you really writing for them?
 

mrsfauthor

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 30, 2017
Messages
101
Reaction score
12
Location
Northeast USA
Sat Nam! (Literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

Adding things that nobody knows about that don't mess with the historical record are the reason historical fiction exists. Go ahead and do it.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

Siri,
I absolutely love this quote.
MrsF
 

Elenitsa

writing as Marina Costa
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
976
Reaction score
764
Location
Bucharest, Romania
Website
caribbeandawn1720.jcink.net
Thank you very much. By the way, that particular short story won me first prize to the literary contest I submitted it to :) Looking forward this late winter/ spring to the short stories collection I get published as this prize!