Hello! I am at the beginning stages of a novel and I am debating if I want to write it in first person or third person limited. What are the pros/cons of either point of view?
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Benefits of certain POVs
- Thread starter librarianj
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Watching Brandon Sanderson videos (free on YouTube) gives you answers to questions like these. I HIGHLY recommend them for questions like this, and a whole lot more. Brandon shares info like....
First POV advantages.... He gives 6; I will only post 2 (so I do not plagiarize him)
1. Immediately immersive for readers.
2. Focuses on characters. Someone’s opinion.
First POV disadvantages (character telling their own story).... He gives 5; I will only post 2 (so I do not plagiarize him)
1. Reader knows character survived the story (removing tension). Untrustworthy narrator.
2. Two versions of the main character (contrast or similarities in person…. were vs. are). Personalities dominate.
3rd, Limited POV advantages.... He gives 7; I will only post 2 (so I do not plagiarize him)
1. Lots of viewpoints. Good with the character. Give an epic scope.
2. Large cast is best (better for scene and setting). Easy to kill cast off.
First POV advantages.... He gives 6; I will only post 2 (so I do not plagiarize him)
1. Immediately immersive for readers.
2. Focuses on characters. Someone’s opinion.
First POV disadvantages (character telling their own story).... He gives 5; I will only post 2 (so I do not plagiarize him)
1. Reader knows character survived the story (removing tension). Untrustworthy narrator.
2. Two versions of the main character (contrast or similarities in person…. were vs. are). Personalities dominate.
3rd, Limited POV advantages.... He gives 7; I will only post 2 (so I do not plagiarize him)
1. Lots of viewpoints. Good with the character. Give an epic scope.
2. Large cast is best (better for scene and setting). Easy to kill cast off.
POV and narrative person aren't the same, remember.
First and third person is an important decision, depending on what's the norm for your genre, what you're good at, what seems to fit your style, etc.
Point of View is the character(s) through whose senses you share the story. Often it's the main character, but not always. (Dr. Watson is the POV character for the Sherlock Holmes stories and novels.) When you're properly in one POV, you cannot know the thoughts or emotions of anybody else unless they show them, but you know all about the POV character, including their past, hopes, fears, and all that sort of thing that's not at the forefront of what's happening right now in your story. So that's a big decision, too.
Maryn, who started writing only first person but has at last expanded to third limited
First and third person is an important decision, depending on what's the norm for your genre, what you're good at, what seems to fit your style, etc.
Point of View is the character(s) through whose senses you share the story. Often it's the main character, but not always. (Dr. Watson is the POV character for the Sherlock Holmes stories and novels.) When you're properly in one POV, you cannot know the thoughts or emotions of anybody else unless they show them, but you know all about the POV character, including their past, hopes, fears, and all that sort of thing that's not at the forefront of what's happening right now in your story. So that's a big decision, too.
Maryn, who started writing only first person but has at last expanded to third limited
I don't like most first-person. It's very difficult to do well, IMO. It has some limits, like a single POV, and you can only really show what the person himself sees or knows. I've seen these limits broken without too much distraction, but only by very good writers. I also find the word "I" appears too much, which gets a little tedious. I think it can be a fun to write a story in first-person, but you really have to be conscious of the limitations and be able to work around them.
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Thanks for the recommendation...I will have to watch these videos!
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Yes, thanks for the distinction! I am referring to narrative person here!
It's what suits the story. What kind of story do you want to tell? The advantages and disadvantages are on a per story basis, as in, the good and the bad will depend on what you're attempting.
For example, if your story spans 3000 years and covers multiple generations of people (like 'Helliconia' does), then there are no advantages to 1st person.
Overall, I think first person is easier to write in some ways, and more naturally suited to some types of story, but has a lot of pitfalls in terms of style and sentence structure.
I've used a weird first person pseudo-omni for current MS. It's not common but 1st can be used to see other points of view. (In this case, the narrator can read the mind of another character, effectively.)
For example, if your story spans 3000 years and covers multiple generations of people (like 'Helliconia' does), then there are no advantages to 1st person.
Overall, I think first person is easier to write in some ways, and more naturally suited to some types of story, but has a lot of pitfalls in terms of style and sentence structure.
I've used a weird first person pseudo-omni for current MS. It's not common but 1st can be used to see other points of view. (In this case, the narrator can read the mind of another character, effectively.)
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As a reader I prefer 3rd Person Limited Past Tense. Most of what I've read is in that POV, so I guess that's why I'm comfortable with it.
Back in the 80's I wrote a 1st Person Past Tense novel (unpublished), that happened because that was just the way the story came to me.
I read a horror novel that was in 1st Person Present Tense once... <shutters> that definitely rev'd up the horror aspect by making it extremely visceral, but it was also difficult to read at times.
I have no advice other than to write your story in the way that if feels natural to do so.
Back in the 80's I wrote a 1st Person Past Tense novel (unpublished), that happened because that was just the way the story came to me.
I read a horror novel that was in 1st Person Present Tense once... <shutters> that definitely rev'd up the horror aspect by making it extremely visceral, but it was also difficult to read at times.
I have no advice other than to write your story in the way that if feels natural to do so.
What is the standard in the genre you're writing in? I'd weigh that heavily.
What feels more natural? Write a short scene, once in 1st and once in 3rd and see what feels better. Some stories decide for themselves how they should be written.
What feels more natural? Write a short scene, once in 1st and once in 3rd and see what feels better. Some stories decide for themselves how they should be written.
As a reader, I'll read pretty much any POV (1st, 3rd, 2nd, omniscient) from the moment it fits the voice and the style of the story.
As a writer, I agree with Carrie in PA. It tends to come organically for me. Depending on the story and the subject, the POV tends to come at the same time as the voice when I formulate the first few sentences in my head.
As a writer, I agree with Carrie in PA. It tends to come organically for me. Depending on the story and the subject, the POV tends to come at the same time as the voice when I formulate the first few sentences in my head.
Both First and Third person POV can be very effective - and both can be mucked up. Which POV do you think would best suit the story you are trying to tell?
As a librarian, I assume you have read many stories of the type you wish to write.
How did you find or react to the POV's and narrative approach taken in those tales?
Good luck.
As a librarian, I assume you have read many stories of the type you wish to write.
How did you find or react to the POV's and narrative approach taken in those tales?
Good luck.
This, to me, is nonsense. I don't even really understand point 2. And point 1 (untrustworthy narrator) can often be a real advantage in narration. As for "removing tension" because we know the narrator survives, that is one of the stupidest pieces of writing advice I've ever seen. Some of the finest, tensest fiction narrative I can think of is related in 1st person (examples: Watcher in the Shadows, by Geoffrey Household; The Riddle of the Sands, by Erskine Childers; any of the Travis McGee novels by John D. MacDonald).
This just comes across as crabby comments from a writer who doesn't like first-person narrative. And is probably strait-jacketed to a certain genre preference as well.
caw
You'll have to watch the videos; these are quick-and-dirty notes minus his explanations. You draw conclusions on my notes, not on Sanderson's knowledge and experience.
Fair enough, but these notes were presumably posted *for* us to draw conclusions on.
There are many examples of first person novels with good tension, where the MC dies, where the MC is dead... I could go on and on, but I don't think you're that particularly interested, so will spare you lol. Some stories have no advantage to being told in third, some have none in first.
There are many examples of first person novels with good tension, where the MC dies, where the MC is dead... I could go on and on, but I don't think you're that particularly interested, so will spare you lol. Some stories have no advantage to being told in third, some have none in first.
The notes were samples of information for librarianj to decide if the videos may be of use or not. Sample before you invest (time watching). I had the notes prepared (from what I needed to retain from the Sanderson videos for my own writing), and I shared some as a sample.
No argument; different POVs for different projects. Mine demands third, limited.
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Quoting somebody, with attribution, is not plagiarism. Paraphrasing somebody inaccurately is not desirable. What you posted appeared to be what Sanderson said, and it did not induce me to go look at his site.
caw
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Huh. I would argue an unreliable narrator would be one of the greatest strengths of the 1st PoV, though I suppose the intent of the author would factor into whether this is a positive or a negative aspect.
These are from notes I took of his lectures. If my post supported an argument, sure. They are just notes for the OP to decide if the videos may have use or not.
What would your take on the advantage of 1st PoV with regards to unreliable narrators?
I like the 3rd person. You can show opposing points of view through another character. But it really is a matter of prefernce. I've seen both of them done well and vv.
To me it depends on your storyline. Some books are told better in the 1st person. There is a lot of mystery as you are only seeing the story through one person's POV.
I have multiple characters in my story so the 3rd person works for me.
Think about your plot, and who are the main characters?
Is it seen through one person's odyssey?
Do you have a single plot or mutliple?
Good luck, whatever you choose?
To me it depends on your storyline. Some books are told better in the 1st person. There is a lot of mystery as you are only seeing the story through one person's POV.
I have multiple characters in my story so the 3rd person works for me.
Think about your plot, and who are the main characters?
Is it seen through one person's odyssey?
Do you have a single plot or mutliple?
Good luck, whatever you choose?
A lot of people have answered this already, but I wanted to mention "The Egyptologist" by Arthur Phillips, which presents alternating POVs and unreliable narators. Might be worth a look to expose yourself to a very unusual story telling format.
You can show opposing views in first person as well, via what the non-POV character does and says, as filtered through the POV character.
caw
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Unless you pull a Simak/Zelazny and everything happens through the eyes of one or more immortals. Organic or robotic
Well, that's why I was thinking Helliconia (the story follows individuals of a bloodline). Helliconia specifically has little to gain by being in first person,a nd would be very disjointed (or very, very long). But yes if the story follows a god or immortal being, all bets are off.