Binding in early 1900s

eldergrantaire · Jul 14, 2018

I'm writing a trans man character in the early 1900s. I'm interested in working out some ways he could bind his chest besides the traditional, very trope-y bandages around the chest. He used to work for a tailor in the East End, so he's good at sewing and knows about materials, but he's now a footman and doesn't have a lot of free time or access to supplies.

I don't think elastic fabrics existed yet, so elastic is out. I was wondering about fabric cut on the bias (diagonally)? According to Wikipedia, the term 'bias cut' existed in some form among some avant-garde dressmakers as early as the mid 19th century, but doesn't seem to have entered the popular lexicon until the 20s or 30s. I don't think someone working in an East End sweat shop in 1900 would know it, so I'm not sure what he would call it. Wikipedia also tells me that fabric cut on the bias was used to make hose in the Middle Ages, so the idea obviously isn't new.

Also, what do you think about having a character come up with something like this if I don't have any evidence of any actual trans men of the period doing it? I obviously want to stick to materials he would have had access to and I don't want him to invent any concepts that didn't actually exist yet. He's not a genius fashion entrepeneur, just a reasonably bright boy with several years of sewing experience. Would it be reasonable for him to go 'hey, if you cut a fabric diagonally, it stretches and I could use that to make something to bind my chest'? Would it impact your immersion if you read that?

Alessandra Kelley · Jul 14, 2018

eldergrantaire said:
I don't think elastic fabrics existed yet, so elastic is out.

Certainly they did. "Elastic" t-shirt knit was a thing a hundred years before that, in the Napoleonic era, when certain very brave young men made their tight white trousers out of it. It was also used to make corsets more flexible and comfortable for horseback riding and playing sports.

Elastic fabrics, in the sense of including stretchy rubber, date to 1820, when they were used in gloves, suspenders, shoes, and stockings.

By a hundred years ago stretchy elastic fabrics were commonplace.

Also consider things like jersey knit tight sweaters, popularized by (and named for) Lillie Langtry, "The Jersey Lily" in the 1880s.

Maryn · Jul 14, 2018

I would think anyone skilled at sewing would know about cutting on the bias. You can do it with any tight-woven fabric. In fact, I urge you to buy a couple yards of something cheap and cut it in strips along the bias, then use them to bind. You will enrich your character's experience with your own.

Whether he has access to the existing knits, or can afford them, or could hide them if needed, might factor into your plot, but anybody might have pre-cut muslin for bandages and other uses.

eldergrantaire · Jul 14, 2018

Certainly they did. "Elastic" t-shirt knit was a thing a hundred years before that, in the Napoleonic era, when certain very brave young men made their tight white trousers out of it. It was also used to make corsets more flexible and comfortable for horseback riding and playing sports.

Excellent! Do you know if the word 'elastic' was in use for fabric then?

Maryn, I've had top surgery so (thank god) no longer need to bind, but I will experiment with my fabric stash nevertheless.

Alessandra Kelley · Jul 14, 2018

eldergrantaire said:
Excellent! Do you know if the word 'elastic' was in use for fabric then?

Maryn, I've had top surgery so (thank god) no longer need to bind, but I will experiment with my fabric stash nevertheless.

Yes, that’s how I discovered it in the first place. Early in the nineteenth century “elastic” seemed to refer spcifically to knit fabric (the cotton t-shirt knit I referenced above), which solved some confusion about “elastic” corsets being advertised before rubber was really a thing (although in the case of the corsets it may also refer to tiny wire springs - fashion is weird).

By 1844 vulcanization made rubber stable enough to be woven into fabrics.

As for timing, may I direct your attention to the printed bills of the Boston Elastic Fabric Co., circa. 1870s:

https://www.historicnewengland.org/explore/collections-access/capobject/?refd=EP001.01.073.01.02.011

csteffoz · Jul 14, 2018

I don't think stories about trans men are nearly common enough for bandages to be considered "trope-y" or "cliche," especially considering so many trans men today still use ace bandages and such to bind, at least when safer long-term options aren't available. I like your ideas of using more tailoring and different choices of fabrics, too, but don't be afraid to use bandages if it fits and makes the most narrative sense.

Might be interesting to see him start with one and get more sophisticated over time!

eldergrantaire · Jul 14, 2018

Oh my god, springs in a corset make me wince. I assume they were placed so that they didn't dig into the wearer, but I can't imagine how that could have been comfortable.

csteffoz, I think it's definitely true that most (cis) readers would not see bandage-binding as cliche, but I know a lot of trans men (including myself) who do a little inward groan every time they see it. Granted, it's not nearly as annoying in historical things where it's probably accurate, but it still crops up all the damn time in modern things (e.g. that Ruby Rose video) and it's really irritating to a lot of trans men, because bandage-binding is really unsafe.

He is starting out in bandages but I'm making sure to present it as obviously unhealthy- he has coughing fits when he takes them off (has happened to me with a binder!), bruises etc.

Maryn · Jul 14, 2018

Oh, good. I'm a huge fan of realism. And safety, too, come to think of it.

I would presume that putting on a bias-cut binding by yourself is not going to be easy. But if your stash is like mine, there's bound to be a buying mistake that you can sacrifice to the cause without a moment's hesitation.

Maryn, who has some "What Was I Thinking?" fabric

eldergrantaire · Jul 14, 2018

I've also sort of vaguely wondered if there would be any way to adapt a corset, or corsetry techniques, into a binder. Unfortunately the corsets of his period (1905) are completely the wrong shape. If it was 10-15 years later, some of the longline corsets of the 19teens look like they could almost work as a binder if they sat a little higher. Alas I know nothing about corsetry, and the materials would be difficult to get hold of and etc. etc. But I thought maybe he could use the hooks and eyes off an old corset to fasten whatever he makes? I've actually made my own binder for performance before out of elastic with hooks and eyes, so I know it works.

Ha, well, I have quite a lot of Lycra for some reason but alas, that won't be much help for this particular experiment.

Alessandra Kelley · Jul 14, 2018

There were men’s corsets that attempted to push the body into a man’s idealized silhouette of the time.

Corsets could be made of fancy materials but the vast majority of them were workaday cotton coutil (a kind of heavy canvas) or actual cotton canvas or duck. The materials - cotton fabric, cotton stay tape - aren’t too hard to get ahold of. You would need a heavy duty sewing machine to handle the thick fabric but those old foot pedaled Singers were tough.

The tricky stuff to get would be the boning and the busk (not hooks and eyes - they are too weak) and reinforcing the lacing grommets.

Boning was usually spring steel, since even a hundred years ago whalebone was increasingly rare and pricey. The busk was too; it’s a reinforced fastener of heavy little knobs and thick but flat metal loops sewn into the front opening of a corset. Corsets also laced up the back for adjustment, but the busk made them much easier to get into and out of.

Corsets are not too difficult to make, though ready made ones were commonest. There were patterns aimed at professionals; maybe home sewers had the skills too.

If adapting a storebought corset, I would say cut away the sides and the bust allowance, leaving the back lacing (which was usually cut on the straight) with its grommets and a few inches to each side, and the front busk, again with some fabric to the side and sewing new sides in a sturdy cotton with the desired silhouette.

eldergrantaire · Jul 14, 2018

I knew men wore corsets in the 1830s; I didn't realise they wore them as late as 1905. I guess how useful they would be would depend on what sort of shape they were. Were they mainly for flattening the stomach, or did they flatten the chest as well?

Thanks for the info! I thought I saw hooks and eyes, or something similar, on corsets like this one (that corset is from 1900). Is that a kind of grommet down the front? I thought grommets were the things that reinforce the holes for lacing.

Alessandra Kelley · Jul 14, 2018

eldergrantaire said:
I knew men wore corsets in the 1830s; I didn't realise they wore them as late as 1905. I guess how useful they would be would depend on what sort of shape they were. Were they mainly for flattening the stomach, or did they flatten the chest as well?

Thanks for the info! I thought I saw hooks and eyes, or something similar, on corsets like this one (that corset is from 1900). Is that a kind of grommet down the front? I thought grommets were the things that reinforce the holes for lacing.

The grommets would be in the back reinforcing the lacing holes, yes.

What you see in the front is a busk partially covered by the corset fabric. It’s a very stiff piece of metal with loops riveted on one side and knobs riveted on the other. Very sturdy.

Men’s corsets appear to have been mostly like the sorts of thing laborers wear these days for back support, so far as I can see.

frimble3 · Jul 14, 2018

Even if corsets for men weren't fashionable in the early 1900's, I'd bet that the metal bits and pieces would still be around, either sitting in the backs of stockrooms, or on old corsets that could be taken apart.
And, older people might remember 'the olden days' and not be entirely surprised when some lad from the country isn't up with modern times. "At least the lad's making an effort to look smart", when he starts prowling shops for old stock, etc.

eldergrantaire · Jul 31, 2018

Interesting maybe-update! I've found what appears to be a description of a binder made by a (possible) Civil War-era trans man in this 1910 article. I could use some help making head or tail of it, as I can't picture how on earth it would work.

At the beginning of her male career she went to great pains to conceal her form, and had made for her half a dozen fine wire net shields which she wore next to the skin. Over these she wore an undershirt of silk or lisle thread, which fitted closely, and was held in place by straps across the chest and shoulders. These undershirts could be rolled up into the small compass of a collar box. Around the waist of each of the undershirts was a band, with eyelet holes arranged for the purpose of making the waistbands of the pantaloons stand out to the proper number of inches.

A close-fitting undershirt, intended to 'conceal her form', with straps across the chest and shoulders- sounds like a binder to me. What I'm struggling to make out is how 'half a dozen fine wire net shields' would help bind the breasts, or what the heck the bit about making the pantaloons 'stand out to the proper number of inches'. Proper number of inches for what? I'd say packing, but it says it goes around the waist, not in the groin. Anyone with sewing knowledge have any ideas?

frimble3 · Jul 31, 2018

Not a sewing expert, but, a guesser.
'Fine wire net shields' sound very painful, when wrapped tightly around the chest. But, the linked article (with it's extremely small type) sounds like a third party report,so there may have been some misinterpretation. I wonder if the 'wire net shields' weren't actually tulle, or a similar fabric netting? The purpose of netting would be to allow the underlayer to 'breathe'. The 'half-dozen' may be to allow for changing or washing, rather than being worn all at once.

My first thought about the 'stand out the proper number of inches', like yours, would be 'packing'.
Might it not be to stop the waistband pulling closely to the waist, revealing feminine hips and waist?

Undershirt, with stiff band, drops from the widest part of the chest/ribcage. Instead of nipping in at the waist, the stiff band connects straight down to the loose underwear (pantaloons), thus giving the outline of a stocky-looking guy. All of this is done with the underclothes, so that the outerwear can be 'normal'.

Alessandra Kelley · Jul 31, 2018

eldergrantaire said:
Interesting maybe-update! I've found what appears to be a description of a binder made by a (possible) Civil War-era trans man in this 1910 article. I could use some help making head or tail of it, as I can't picture how on earth it would work.

A close-fitting undershirt, intended to 'conceal her form', with straps across the chest and shoulders- sounds like a binder to me. What I'm struggling to make out is how 'half a dozen fine wire net shields' would help bind the breasts, or what the heck the bit about making the pantaloons 'stand out to the proper number of inches'. Proper number of inches for what? I'd say packing, but it says it goes around the waist, not in the groin. Anyone with sewing knowledge have any ideas?

The problem, of course, is this article was written by a man making a bunch of assumptions about what people understood.

They had fine wire net at the time. It was sometimes used to make softer bustles. It was like a sort of soft window screen material. I suppose a disc of it could help flatten the breasts? The author is so darned discreet, it’s hard to tell.

“Silk or lisle thread” tells me the undershirt was probably a t-shirt knit. Lisle thread was and still is a superfine cotton used to knit socks.

Perhaps the wire net acted like the foam inserts and other stiffeners they put inside bras these days. With the right shape it could flatten things.

The pantaloons bit seems to mean she somehow padded her waist so she wouldn’t have a small feminine waist over wide hips. At the time it was assumed that was the natural shape for women, so it would need to be addressed.

EDIT: Oh, and nice find!

eldergrantaire · Jul 31, 2018

Yeah, my instinctive reaction to the wire mesh thing was 'OW'. I have found another source about a different trans man (or passing woman) that describes them as wearing a 'a broad web band similar to a horse's girth across the chest', which sounds like they mean some sort of netting? So that would be two separate sources of people binding using some sort of netting, which is a good start! I don't know anything about horses but I think by 'a horse's girth' they mean something like this. I can sort of see how you might bind with something like that, if you put the wide part over your chest.

That's a good call about the hips. I have heard of some trans guys wearing binders that come down past the hips, but I've never personally done it. This seems like a pretty clever way of masking the body shape (and might actually allow more freedom of movement than a long binder).

Do you know what that kind of fabric would have been called? I assume not a t-shirt knit

Alessandra Kelley · Jul 31, 2018

I think they could have called it jersey or stockinet, depending on the exact method of knitting.

frimble3 · Jul 31, 2018

For me, a horse's girth suggests a wide leather, or heavy canvas, band. It would work for small breasts, but large ones would probably bulge out, unless the band was very wide.

I have been thinking about the waist/general outline thing. Once you get the binding worked out, how about a pair of longjohns, or a union suit? They would cover everything and they could have padding sewn inside, around the waist or shoulders, etc. No buttons to come loose and expose stiff edges or bindings. To 'prove' the footman isn't a man, you'd have to pretty much strip him, which I'd bet most people would consider a bit extreme. And, the basic garment was common, easy to find and not unusual if found in a closet. Maybe a little old-fashioned, and overly-warm for summer wear, but if your MC is supposed to be a country bumpkin, perhaps excusable.

eldergrantaire · Aug 1, 2018

Well, the article described it as 'similar to a horse's girth', not that it was actually made out of one. So I guess the band could be wider than an actual horse's girth.

That's a good idea about the longjohns. He's not a country bumpkin, he's an East End Jewish boy, but I feel like he could get away with old-fashioned underwear since he grew up poor. Another article described someone wearing

'‘An imitation penis and testicles made of chamois skin and stuffed with down were suspended in the right place by means of a band around the waist.’'

I imagine you could sew a pocket into the inside of a pair of longjohns to hold a packer like that in place. Not sure where he'd get hold of chamois leather, but I am very amused by the thought of my other, very sheltered POV character walking in on him sewing himself a leather dick. Might try and work that in.

frimble3 · Aug 1, 2018

These days, I'd look for chamois in places that sell specialty cleaning stuff. It's porous and non-abrasive, for gently sucking up moisture when cleaning and drying delicate stuff. You can buy it in reasonably sized pieces for that use.
It was also used for gloves, I believe, again, because of the non-abrasiveness when handling stuff.

Binding in early 1900s

eldergrantaire

Alessandra Kelley

Sophipygian

Maryn

Baaa!

eldergrantaire

Alessandra Kelley

Sophipygian

csteffoz

eldergrantaire

Maryn

Baaa!

eldergrantaire

Alessandra Kelley

Sophipygian

eldergrantaire

Alessandra Kelley

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frimble3

Heckuva good sport

eldergrantaire

frimble3

Heckuva good sport

Alessandra Kelley

Sophipygian

eldergrantaire

Alessandra Kelley

Sophipygian

frimble3

Heckuva good sport

eldergrantaire

frimble3

Heckuva good sport