What Kind of Job Should Daniel Aim For?-- And How to Get There

DanielSTJ

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I'm in my second year of college and plan to transfer to university-- I already have some credits. I plan on attaining a Bachelors in English Literature. You folks seem to know me well and I wanted to ask you, yes ALL of you, what should I do? Writing is nice and dandy, but it's something I don't think I'd ever earn a full income at and I'd be happy doing it on the side regardless. I'm currently working in construction-related work and, as much as I appreciate my employer, I do not plan on doing that for longer than I have to.

I was thinking of maybe gaining--upon some years of travail, a position as an editor. Yet, I'm not sure if I'd be cut out for such a thing.

Any ideas? Thoughts? Suggestions? I want to start acquiring the skills necessary to bolster myself in a field I'd be interested in. I'm older than the usual graduate (I'll be 31-32 with my B.A) but I work incredibly hard and I'm the type of person to never miss a day of work.

So, any input? :)
 
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lizmonster

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I know there are editors who are also writers.

That said: my aunt and uncle, who published a stack of children's and MG books about 30 years ago, said they knew a number of editors who wanted to write, but found dealing with books all day drained their energy for their own work. YMMV, but it's probably worth thinking about.

I dunno. I was in software for 27 years, which was an OK career (and paid well, which I miss). If I could do it all over again, I'd probably become a CPA, but I like that mathy stuff. :)
 

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I'm in my second year of college and plan to transfer to university-- I already have some credits. I plan on attaining a Bachelors in English Literature. You folks seem to know me well and I wanted to ask you, yes ALL of you, what should I do? Writing is nice and dandy, but it's something I don't think I'd ever earn a full income at and I'd be happy doing it on the side regardless. I'm currently working in construction-related work and, as much as I appreciate my employer, I do not plan on doing that for longer than I have to.

I was thinking of maybe entering the publishing domain as an editor, but I'm not sure if I'd be cut out for such a thing.

Any ideas? Thoughts? Suggestions? I want to start acquiring the skills necessary to bolster myself in a field I'd be interested in. I'm older than the usual graduate (I'll be 31-32 with my B.A) but I work incredibly hard and I'm the type of person to never miss a day of work.

So, any input? :)

What do you want to do?

You don't enter the publishing world as an editor -- you enter as an intern or a jr. level assistant, jobs for which there is kind of insane competition. Insane, insane competition.
 

MaryMumsy

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What do you want to do?

You don't enter the publishing world as an editor -- you enter as an intern or a jr. level assistant, jobs for which there is kind of insane competition. Insane, insane competition.

I'm not a writer, but I am a reader. I have found in the last few years that the quality of editing has been in a decline. Continuity errors, homonym errors, "I don't think that word means what you think it means" errors. In talking with an author friend of mine who is well published out of NY she indicated that most editors these days are not employees but rather freelancers. It may be different in Canada.

Would you consider working in a bookstore?

MM
 

DanielSTJ

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What do you want to do?

You don't enter the publishing world as an editor -- you enter as an intern or a jr. level assistant, jobs for which there is kind of insane competition. Insane, insane competition.

Yes, I mean career as in: work up to. However, I did NOT know that there was insane competition for these jobs. :(

Would you consider working in a bookstore?

MM

But I didn't need to become well-educated to end up working in a bookstore. :( Also, from where I come from, that's a minimum wage sort of job.

Should I start thinking of a job, for various reasons, as a paycheck rather than something fulfilling-- i.e. like writing?

*UPDATE*

A more stable job, though I'm not entirely sure about the availability, would be that of a librarian as an end goal. It would not be too exciting, but it would be a consistent form of employment. However, in Canada, that would require a Master's Degree in Library Science at minimum to be considered.
 
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lizmonster

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Should I start thinking of a job, for various reasons, as a paycheck rather than something fulfilling-- i.e. like writing?

So, to get all serious on you: I didn't grow up dreaming of a three-decade career in software. My degree wasn't software-related, either. I sort of fell into it, and it paid well and was a reasonable way to pass the time. There were moments when it was fulfilling - I like solving problems, and it could be very satisfying to solve a really sticky one - but mostly it varied from mildly entertaining to kind of dull.

And it never interfered with my writing energy. Other things in life did, but work? Nope.

Not everybody can do that. Not everybody can work a 9-5 that doesn't feed something passionate in themselves. But it worked for me, and I don't regret an instant of it.
 

DanielSTJ

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Interesting food for thought Liz-- thank you.

I'm ruminating upon it now more deeply.

P.S. Thanks MaryMumsy and Cornflake!
 

Siri Kirpal

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Sat Nam! (Literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

When Mr. Siri and I moved to Oregon, we both decided we'd just grab whatever jobs we could. Mr. Siri got a construction job, and yeah, after a really bad winter, he wanted out. So he tried a part-time, no benefits job at the library, shelving books. I had a job with benefits, so we could do that. Without a library degree, he ended up working his way to library assocate; he was running the audio-visual department when he retired and we moved to a different town. He was twice made Employee of the Month. Not by the library (although that happened too), but the whole citywide City of Salem. He was (and still is), like you, a voracious reader. He was (and still is), like you, hard working.

So you might want to see what career ladders are actually available in libraries in your part of Canada.

May whatever you choose go well!

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal
 

cornflake

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Yes, I mean career as in: work up to. However, I did NOT know that there was insane competition for these jobs. :(

Insanely. Even university presses (which are not exactly the glamour jobs there and rarely deal with fiction), get so many applications for minimum-wage internships (from grad students and undergrad), they only talk to people who get through enough vetting to warrant an interview. I mean it's possible, people do land them, but ... insanely competitive.

But I didn't need to become well-educated to end up working in a bookstore. :( Also, from where I come from, that's a minimum wage sort of job.

Should I start thinking of a job, for various reasons, as a paycheck rather than something fulfilling-- i.e. like writing?

*UPDATE*

A more stable job, though I'm not entirely sure about the availability, would be that of a librarian as an end goal. It would not be too exciting, but it would be a consistent form of employment. However, in Canada, that would require a Master's Degree in Library Science at minimum to be considered.

Librarian also INSANELY competitive in the U.S. -- and you won't even generally be in the running without *at least* a Master's in Library Science. I know a couple of ppl with their MAs in Library Science who've struggled mightily to land any job -- one gave up completely. I know one librarian without an advanced degree, but she's been in her post like 40 years and is a freelance indexer of some note, so she's valuable.
 
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MaeZe

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I read a book just out of high school, How to Travel and Get Paid for It. Nurse was the second job after teaching. Turned out to be the perfect job for me, work as much or as little as I wanted. Quit anytime because one can always get another nursing job. I worked in different settings and specialties, eventually became well versed in all kinds of nursing. Went back to school three different times. Got an advanced degree. Built my own practice.

I had mobility and all the time off I wanted. I'm not rich but I'm not struggling either. Now I can write and draw on all those experiences I've had over my lifetime.

Find the job you want to do, or the job that you can use to do the things you want to do. :e2steer:
 

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A slightly different perspective:

If you want to make a career of writing, you can always think about copywriting -- you'd need to practice constantly, and know something about marketing. Or you could dive into a junior position for manual writing (tech writing generally requires a degree in tech writing or relevant years' experience) -- just remember to teach yourself Illustrator, Photoshop and InDesign if you don't already know those.

IME, those positions are highly focused on non-fiction, so they do leave you with energy / imagination to write fiction after the day job is over.

Another that might be conducive to writing, might include receptionist. May not pay your ideal wage, but the idea is to interact and people-study which will help you with all aspects of life, jobs, and writing.

You could always check out a job ad site and see what types of job descriptions catch your eye. That may give you an idea of which direction you'd like to go in after graduation. Some may even offer part-time versions, so, if you have the energy and discipline, you could get into your targeted job/career that way.

And what MaeZe said:

Find the job you want to do, or the job that you can use to do the things you want to do.
 

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If you're looking for a four year degree that will pretty much guarantee you a job with decent pay, you could look into engineering. It has nothing to do with writing, but maybe that's a good thing if writing is something you want to continue to enjoy in your free time.

Then again, I'm a little biased.
 

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Do you enjoy teaching? I'm in the same boat as yourself, studying English and Creative Writing in uni and it's quite an easy jump into PGCE (one year of teacher training), so maybe the Canadian equivalent would be a good thing to do once you've finished your main course. As far as I'm aware, teaching is a much more viable career in Canada than it is in the USA.
 

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Mrs. Buddies teaches...I'd suggest doing anything other than teaching if you want the time and energy to write. Most nights during the school year she's dead on her feet tired by supper time, and then after supper there's still more work to do. Not sure if the educational system is less defunct in Canada, but it's a ridiculous way to try to grind a living down here in the States.

Don't worry too much about the age thing, I didn't get my BS until I was 31, and my MS at 33. You can still have time to climb the ladder, (and it may be faster than the young-un's you graduate with because you have some life experience that employers will appreciate. Which leads me to a couple of important questions:

1. What have you been doing with your career so far? (Experience)
2. What do you hate about it so much that you want to completely change?
3. How do you want to use those past experiences to build a better future?
4. What income level are you comfortable with?

PS If you can math...Actuaries are paid well and always in demand.
 
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frimble3

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But I didn't need to become well-educated to end up working in a bookstore. :( Also, from where I come from, that's a minimum wage sort of job.

Should I start thinking of a job, for various reasons, as a paycheck rather than something fulfilling-- i.e. like writing?

*UPDATE*

A more stable job, though I'm not entirely sure about the availability, would be that of a librarian as an end goal. It would not be too exciting, but it would be a consistent form of employment. However, in Canada, that would require a Master's Degree in Library Science at minimum to be considered.

Sat Nam! (Literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

When Mr. Siri and I moved to Oregon, we both decided we'd just grab whatever jobs we could. Mr. Siri got a construction job, and yeah, after a really bad winter, he wanted out. So he tried a part-time, no benefits job at the library, shelving books. I had a job with benefits, so we could do that. Without a library degree, he ended up working his way to library assocate; he was running the audio-visual department when he retired and we moved to a different town. He was twice made Employee of the Month. Not by the library (although that happened too), but the whole citywide City of Salem. He was (and still is), like you, a voracious reader. He was (and still is), like you, hard working.

So you might want to see what career ladders are actually available in libraries in your part of Canada.

May whatever you choose go well!

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal
There is a difference between a 'librarian' with qualifications and all, and what most people see: 'the library person'. Sometimes called clerks, sometimes called associates, they are the backbone of the public library service.

I worked as a 'page' (lowest level of clerk - a book shelver, where I worked) when I was a teenager. I decided I wanted to be a librarian - I was getting a B.A., with the intention of transferring to a school that had a MLS. Then, as I observed various libraries, I noted that most 'librarian' sit at desks or in little offices, doing paperwork, waiting for someone to come and ask questions. I didn't really want to do that - I wanted to be out front, where the books and people came together.

I worked my way up to library clerk, running a little branch on my own some days. I loved that job.
But, I had to choose between school or the library, and, although I was no longer planning to be a librarian,
I chose school. Bad, sensible choice - I should have stuck it out. But, at the time, most clerical jobs were part-time, intended for the older married women that came with the library from it's volunteer origins. Not enough to tempt a single woman at the start of her career.
In the long run, I should have stuck with it.

Don't know where you are, but I'm in the Lower Mainland of B.C. - our libraries are unionized, the pay is good, the benefits are excellent. And, I haven't checked this officially, but most of the 'clerks' are women.
Most of the males are actual librarians. You might have a good shot as a clerk, purely from a diversity aspect.
It's chiefly a public service job, dealing with the patrons, checking the books in and out, shelving, etc. If your hands are moving, lots of time to think.

From a construction background, the work is light, and your background in English can be helpful. And, there is room for advancement and specialization. If nothing else, it's a put-it-down-and-go-home-work, you can probably write in the evenings.
IE Mr. Siri and the audio-visuals. Also technical jobs in processing new books.
And the wide world of books - you see pretty much every book in the library - see what's popular, etc.

Wherever you are, Google the local libraries, see what they ask for in qualifications, and what the pay is like.
 

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Librarian also INSANELY competitive in the U.S. -- and you won't even generally be in the running without *at least* a Master's in Library Science. I know a couple of ppl with their MAs in Library Science who've struggled mightily to land any job -- one gave up completely. I know one librarian without an advanced degree, but she's been in her post like 40 years and is a freelance indexer of some note, so she's valuable.

I work PT in a warehouse for our library material distribution services (basically where things go from one place to another). We had someone work with us for a while who literally drove halfway across the country to interview, and when he started he hadn't even got a place for his family to live yet, because he was going to school to be a librarian and decided having a job - any job - in a library would be a good foot in the door. From out of state, he came here for a job taking books out of boxes in a warehouse as a career move. Lost track of him when he left (I think he went on to be a page in an actual library branch, but don't quote me on that.)

And, FYI, competition for anything above entry level, at least from what I've seen, can be quite competitive, too... probably because the next rung up the ladder has actual benefits, at least for now. And HR can be... well, HR. But you can move a fair ways up the ladder (with luck) without degrees in library science, from what I've seen. (There is also a deal where the library system will help pay for your library degree... but you're obligated to work for the system for a few years after graduation, which can necessitate working as a page or other non-degreed job due to lack of openings. At least, that's what I've heard; again, don't quote me on that. I'm just a lowly materials handler.)

Incidentally, if you can drive a largeish truck (a step below needing an actual CDL), you might see if driver jobs are available with area library systems as a "foot in the door"; at least for us, we seem to often be in need of drivers and sub drivers.
 

DanielSTJ

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Maybe working as a "page" wouldn't be so bad until I can figure things out. At least, I can figure out what to do. Even if I could get a position or two above that, with some years, that wouldn't be bad at all! :D

Currently, I'll be done college (but not university) this year with $0 debt. I also have a year and a half of university credits that I've cleared the debt for. If I can stay in my hometown, I'll be free of most debt-- but even if I have to change cities to attend university my father has said he will help me with my costs. Go Dad! =D
 
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Brightdreamer

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Maybe working as a "page" wouldn't be so bad until I can figure things out. At least, I can figure out what to do. Even if I could get a position or two above that, with some years, that wouldn't be bad at all! :D

Currently, I'll be done college (but not university) this year with $0 debt. I also have a year and a half of university credits that I've cleared the debt for. If I can stay in my hometown, I'll be free of most debt-- but even if I have to change cities to attend university my father has said he will help me with my costs. Go Dad! =D

Page is a good starting point. (Used to be one myself. Then they changed the job title... but I did train to sub as an actual page. ;) )Another benefit to working your way up: you'll get to see the whole library process. Can't help but make you better at your job, to see it from different angles and have intimate knowledge of what everyone working below you does - what they actually do, not what the little write-up in the HR manual says they do. (And if you keep your ears peeled you can get some nice insider knowledge on office politics, which also can help you rise. At least where I am, the techs and managers like to talk...)

Best of luck!
 

Siri Kirpal

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Sat Nam! (literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

Good for your father!

There's also driving bookmobiles, which is a library service some library districts have.

I'm guessing "pages" are what Mr. Siri was at first: part-time exempt (exempt from benefits). Then there was assistant (he drove the bookmobile), then there was associate (he was running the AV department). Like frimble, he had the choice of getting a library degree or keeping on with his job. He choose the job and was grateful he did.

May things go well.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal
 

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Hey Daniel! Congrats on getting closer to your BA :D I was 30 when I got my BA in English, so you're not alone in your quest.

I do have some input about the writing job thing, having landed an editorial assistant internship, became writing buddies with a friend who now works at Page Street Publishing, and applied to hundreds of internships/jobs as an editorial assistant/administrative assistant.

As stated above, editing jobs are insanely competitive and in the end, a BA in English doesn't make much of a splash, since college is a common thing nowadays. What does make a splash is experience, mostly freelance, although if you had an internship previously, that also helps. My writing buddy landed her job at Page Street because she had 5 years of experience as a freelance editor and a huge list of clients. So, to be honest, getting into the writing industry, unless you already have an in or have a huge chunk of freelance experience, is a huge leap, particularly if you don't live in New York.

For the administrative jobs, to get more than just a basic secretarial position, you need more schooling, like an actual degree from a tech/2-year college. But even then, it's so common that there's an enormous pool of highly qualified candidates that employers can basically pick and choose who they want. I interviewed for 3 administrative positions this week, with 2 years of office experience, and was passed over for each one, often with the warning "we've received an immense amount of interest/resumes for the position." So, just something to think about, if you really want to pursue office work as a day job, you'll need more schooling and experience to stand out.

My advice is to focus on finding a day job that you will enjoy, that won't drain you completely, so you can still write. Like Justo said, think about your career now, what you like about it, and what you don't like about it, and how your next steps can help you achieve that.

Do you like freedom of making your own schedule? Freelancing might be the way to go. Do you like stability? Then a steady, full time job might work best. Do you prefer something that'll engage your brain or your body? Finding a day job to offset your ability to write is probably the most important thing you can do, until you're ready/able to make the leap to writing being your full time position. And if that doesn't come until your retirement, best to find a job you can live with for the next 35 years XDDD

Also: I'm insanely jealous that you're finishing college without debt XD But it's fantastic that your family can help you and that you have this opportunity. My other advice? Take this time to play around, take classes unrelated to writing, maybe look into tech college/apprenticeships. Cause you don't know what you like or don't like til you try.

Good luck!
 
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Barbara R.

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I'm in my second year of college and plan to transfer to university-- I already have some credits. I plan on attaining a Bachelors in English Literature. You folks seem to know me well and I wanted to ask you, yes ALL of you, what should I do? Writing is nice and dandy, but it's something I don't think I'd ever earn a full income at and I'd be happy doing it on the side regardless. I'm currently working in construction-related work and, as much as I appreciate my employer, I do not plan on doing that for longer than I have to.

I was thinking of maybe gaining--upon some years of travail, a position as an editor. Yet, I'm not sure if I'd be cut out for such a thing.

Any ideas? Thoughts? Suggestions? I want to start acquiring the skills necessary to bolster myself in a field I'd be interested in. I'm older than the usual graduate (I'll be 31-32 with my B.A) but I work incredibly hard and I'm the type of person to never miss a day of work.

So, any input? :)

Publishing is a great career path for aspiring writers. Doesn't pay well, but a lot better than writing! And it give you valuable knowledge, skills and contacts for your writing career. I wrote a whole post on it, here.
 

Richard White

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And from a different perspective, I've been a writer most of my life, but writing books/comics has only been a small blip as far as my overall paychecks have gone.

I wrote for a local newspaper in HS covering local sports/events at the school/other events the regular editors/reporters couldn't get to. Yeah, it wasn't great pay, but you quickly learn how to meet deadlines and how to take editing. During college, I did sports reporting/editing for the college radio station, which taught me skills in interviewing and how to trim a six to eight minute interview into a 30 to 60 second report with sound bites attached. Working no more than 20 hours a month didn't pay much, but that kind of experience was invaluable if I had stayed with broadcasting ... another story for another time.

I was a reporter/analyst for the U.S. Army for 15+ years. Again, definitely not living on easy street, but it was a steady paycheck and I was involved in writing about stuff I'd never get the chance to write about anywhere else - things that have shown up in both my SF and Fantasy works. (Did I mention the steady paycheck?)

Now, I'm about to hit 19 years as a technical writer/editor. Again, not always glamorous work translating Engineerese into English, but it's definitely a vital profession. Plus, during down times, I work on my stories - "it's typing practice, don'tcha know." *grin* Admittedly, there are nights I get home and do NOT want to write, but that's OK too.

So, long story short, (too late[SUP]1[/SUP]), there are a number of different options for getting writing positions besides the classic ones. You have to turn over more rocks, but they're there and once people know you "know" how to write, you will be in demand because for some odd reason, most people seem to hate it.


([SUP]1[/SUP] - Shamelessly stolen from the movie Clue)
 

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Sat Nam! (Literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

When Mr. Siri and I moved to Oregon, we both decided we'd just grab whatever jobs we could. Mr. Siri got a construction job, and yeah, after a really bad winter, he wanted out. So he tried a part-time, no benefits job at the library, shelving books. I had a job with benefits, so we could do that. Without a library degree, he ended up working his way to library assocate; he was running the audio-visual department when he retired and we moved to a different town. He was twice made Employee of the Month. Not by the library (although that happened too), but the whole citywide City of Salem. He was (and still is), like you, a voracious reader. He was (and still is), like you, hard working.

So you might want to see what career ladders are actually available in libraries in your part of Canada.

May whatever you choose go well!

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

So how did you end up with the Apple gig, Siri?
 

Silva

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I think a lot of the time English Lit is considered a stepping stone, rather than a qualification in and of itself--it qualifies you for a master's degree which might be more specific/useful for a career. Library sciences could be that master's degree, or you could teach, or you could branch into journalism, or you could build your own business as a freelance editor.

People I know who have gotten english degrees are now a) a tattoo artist, b) given up on writing for money and getting an engineering degree, and c) a freelance digital artist/web designer (her other major).

There's probably something to be said for a double major or minor that augments the english degree in a way that makes it more marketable.


Here's another perspective to mull over--being a writer means building life experiences. You can take your other interests and build them into something marketable that will sustain your writing career.

For me, I like medical science, languages, and photography as well as writing. Any of these things are something that I can build into a marketable skill that will broaden my life experience and therefore make me a better writer, if I allow it to. I can qualify myself for a job in the medical field (many medical careers do not take as long to qualify for as doctors or nurses-- many are two year degrees, and on the extremely short end, a phlebotomist trains for 4-6 months) and then work with med travelers, which will send me on (typically) 3mo assignments all over the country, with housing, travel, and health benefits covered. I can become proficient in a language and work as a translator, exposing me to many different people and cultures. I could build my skills as a photographer and work for a travel agency.

An english degree can be very educational and may help you as a writer, so I don't want to discourage you from that, but I think it's also important to branch out. What are your other interests? How might they work together with an english degree?