• Basic Writing questions is not a crit forum. All crits belong in Share Your Work

Killing off the main character

Questioner

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
98
Reaction score
1
Location
Sweden
Hello! I've laid out a plan for a novel series I have in mind. It's a story that will stretch for five books.

However, I'm struggling with the ending of the first novel. I have planned for the protagonist to die towards the end of the first novel, since her death is one of the reasons that the rest of the series occurs.

I also have several other POV-characters that I would like to include in later novels, but that I 'm not so sure would suit in the first novel. Most of these characters are introduced in the first novel, although it doesn't have to be as POV-characters.

Can you kill of the protagonist in the first novel of a series? Can you add POV's later on without them ruining the "feel" the first novel had?
 

Enlightened

Always Learning
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 5, 2018
Messages
4,863
Reaction score
167
Location
Colorado
Below is no advice how to work novels, but something to consider (after everyone else chimes in). My input is this.... If the MC is a GREAT character, and you kill her off, you may be left with problems, such as: finding an agent (if you do not have one); selling your work. Asset management.

I had a screenwriting class in the mid-90s. The instructor, a working screenwriter/instructor, told us a story of Shane Black (screenwriter of the original Lethal Weapon movies). He was paid a lot of money to write a sequel. He came back with a script that killed off Gibson's and Glover's characters. The studio exec told him to keep the money paid; they wanted to go in another direction. They made four movies out of it. Shane went on to write: The Last Boyscout; The Last Action Hero.... He somehow landed Iron Man 3, but that was an established series.
 
Last edited:

NoirSuede

Running gags aren't for me
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 22, 2015
Messages
279
Reaction score
11
Age
24
Location
Tangerang, Indonesia
First of all, unless you've already got a book published before and has the trust of the publisher, don't try making a series, since why would they want to publish something that needs five books to be complete when they can just publish one that's finished in one?

Aside from that, yeah killing off POV characters at the middle happens all the time, like in that Queen movie.
 
Last edited:

Elle.

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Messages
1,272
Reaction score
734
Location
United Kingdom
Hi questioner,

I'm going to go the opposite direction and contradicts an earlier post. Writing is not about money, asset management, or writing whatever will get you an agent (agents are people so you can be sure that for one agent who finds something great you'll find another agent who hates it).

Write whatever you feel is best for your story. If your story is great, well-written, compelling, with great characterisation then there will be an agent out there for it, killing off the MC or not. As Maggie mentioned George R R Martin kills off MC's all the time and he has no issues. One book I love is Eimear McBride A Girl Is A Half-Formed Thing and the MC kills herself at the end.

Hope this helps and good luck with your story.
 

BethS

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
11,708
Reaction score
1,763
I agree with Elle. If you want to write this series, go for it.
 

CathleenT

I write
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
5,097
Reaction score
1,981
Location
Northern California
The answer to your questions is, "Of course." You can do whatever you like. In return, I have a question for you, not that you have to answer it here, but just for you to think about.

Are you writing for yourself or your (possibly so-far hypothetical) readers?

The answer to that will inform a lot of your decision-making, and not just on this topic.

Forty-one percent prefer novels that make them feel better. They want happy endings--Pride and Prejudice was often named as an example. (https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/mar/02/books.booksnews) Only 2.2% liked endings that were sad.

Twelve percent of them even wanted to reverse Dumbledore's death in Half-Blood Prince.

That's an older reference, but you can Google around. It's not the only link on the topic.

Once you write your book/series, do you want to sell it? Trade or SP is immaterial, IMO. You can either SP a book and enjoy the cricket serenade, or you can query endlessly for years with a sad ending. I'm assuming that this would be a debut, that you're not an established author with an existing audience (GRR Martin's situation when publishing GoT).

It's hard enough being a debut author. I'd advise you not to stack the deck against yourself in any way that you can avoid. :)
 
Last edited:

Enlightened

Always Learning
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 5, 2018
Messages
4,863
Reaction score
167
Location
Colorado
The answer to your questions is, "Of course." You can do whatever you like. In return, I have a question for you, not that you have to answer it here, but just for you to think about.

Are you writing for yourself or your (possibly so-far hypothetical) readers?

The answer to that will inform a lot of your decision-making, and not just on this topic.

Forty-one percent prefer novels that make them feel better. They want happy endings--Pride and Prejudice was often named as an example. (https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/mar/02/books.booksnews) Only 2.2% liked endings that were sad.

Twelve percent of them even wanted to reverse Dumbledore's death in Half-Blood Prince.

That's an older reference, but you can Google around. It's not the only link on the topic.

Once you write your book/series, do you want to sell it? Trade or SP is immaterial, IMO. You can either SP a book and enjoy the cricket serenade, or you can query endlessly for years with a sad ending. I'm assuming that this would be a debut, that you're not an established author with an existing audience (GRR Martin's situation when publishing GoT).

It's hard enough being a debut author. I'd advise you not to stack the deck against yourself in any way that you can avoid. :)

^ Very well put.
 

relletyrots

The One Who Tells The Story
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
Messages
198
Reaction score
39
Location
Mostly inside my own head.
Firstly, NEVER listen to advice that tells you NEVER to do something.
(Mwahahaha.)

Regarding series vs. standalones, I can tell you (agent-less as I may be) that I've heard there's no problem with querying the first novel in a series, as long as it can stand on its own. But I agree with Elle and BethS, you should write what you want to write, not what other people think other people want you to write.

Regarding the killing of the MC, I see no problem with it. On the other hand, I'm also a huge fan of GRRM and a person who generally doesn't mind a sad ending (done well). Even more so, I highly appreciate a sad ending done well, as they can be very powerful. It may even be poetic, ending the life of a character along with their story. But as always, it's about execution, and about context. A story written well is a well-written story.
 

ChibiUsagi

Banned
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
477
Reaction score
77
Location
New York, NY
I am a miserable masochist and I have no issue with character death and sad endings, so long as they feel organic and serve a purpose. Tragedy porn or people who kill their MC because they ran out of ideas/don't know how to wrap up story threads...that's a different scenario.

I don't see an issue with saying you intend for this book to be the first in a series but it does need to be able to stand alone as relletyrots said.

I would write the book you want to write and worry about the rest later. Honestly. I have had people beg me not to kill off one of my characters and my answer is always the same: if he dies, the story stays stagnant. He must die. It's necessary.

I didn't enjoy it any more than they did.
 

Harlequin

Eat books, not brains!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 21, 2010
Messages
4,584
Reaction score
1,412
Location
The land from whence the shadows fall
Website
www.sunyidean.com
Of course it can. The main reason people don't like MC character death is it's unsatisfying, so there are absolutely ways around that. A good death can be really satisfying.

My CP has a MS where the MC dies at the end. In fact, his impending death is the premise of the entire book. And he comes back later, in various forms.

Another CP has a MS where the world is ending. Again, that's the premise of the book.


My favorite all-time novel (I won't name it to save you spoilers) has a MC who dies at the end. The story changes pov to his sidekick and carries on for several more chapters. It's freaking awesome.
 

Harlequin

Eat books, not brains!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 21, 2010
Messages
4,584
Reaction score
1,412
Location
The land from whence the shadows fall
Website
www.sunyidean.com
Re marketing - aiming for the broadest market is not really ideal imo. Unless your book is the next Harry Potter (it won't be--you're not writing Children's fiction and that's what you'd have to do to achieve that) then you want superfans. People who think your book is a 10/10 and love it, not people who think it is mediocre.

A wise person on AW told me once there's no point being everybody's 7. And he was right. Your target audience will be people in that genre who like a sad, moving ending; write for them, and wring the tears out.
 

Sparverius

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 7, 2017
Messages
407
Reaction score
112
Website
www.essahansen.com
An MC death can totally work if it completes their character arc, feels satisfying and natural within the narrative. In a series, hopefully the other characters will be just as beloved and able to carry the plot weight, and/or the MC's death creates ripples that makes their presence (or lack of it) have real impact on the continuing story.

My MC dies at the end of the first book in a trilogy. Death is a huge theme in the story. The ending is surprising, satisfying, and fully earned. I got an offer of representation on that novel.
 

Sage

Currently titleless
Staff member
Moderator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 15, 2005
Messages
64,560
Reaction score
22,360
Age
43
Location
Cheering you all on!
As far as finding an agent or publisher if they don't want the MC dying, if that is the only thing they don't like about your book, they will ask you to change the ending. It's not worth avoiding writing it the way you want in this regard because you're afraid it won't be repped or pubbed. Of course, if you get that far and you're not willing to make the change, that's a different matter, but if that's the case, then you'd still not change it now. And it might be so moving that they don't want that change at all. I would not personally use a hypothetical agent's or editor's opinion when making this decision.

ETA: I had a couple of novels that end with an MC's (or multiple MCs') death. In one, one of my betas was like, "Don't you dare ever change this!" and I never have. In the other, my betas convinced me that the deaths were not the right path. It just depends.
 
Last edited:

Toto Too

Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 3, 2018
Messages
191
Reaction score
25
Re marketing - aiming for the broadest market is not really ideal imo. Unless your book is the next Harry Potter (it won't be--you're not writing Children's fiction and that's what you'd have to do to achieve that) then you want superfans. People who think your book is a 10/10 and love it, not people who think it is mediocre.

A wise person on AW told me once there's no point being everybody's 7. And he was right. Your target audience will be people in that genre who like a sad, moving ending; write for them, and wring the tears out.

And now a wise person has repeated it :) I really like this. Thanks. :)
 

Atlantic12

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 1, 2017
Messages
573
Reaction score
77
Location
Both sides of the Atlantic
In one of my favorite books, the MC commits suicide about 2/3 of the way through. I almost had a heart attack. I raved. I grieved. It was amazing. (I *still* grieve for this guy).

Do what you want to do and let your agent or readers worry about the rest.
 

Doug Egan

Registered
Joined
Jun 30, 2018
Messages
24
Reaction score
3
Location
MidAtlantic, USA
One of my early short stories was written in first person past tense. At the end, the protagonist is murdered. Several of my readers questioned whether my narrator was writing his story from the grave.

More recently I read a published book by a popular author which killed the first person narrator at the end of chapter one then switched to a different voice in the rest of the book. An author can write anything they want, but that particular change of voice broke my immersion in the story.

There are multiple examples in literature of a character being killed off, then brought back: Sherlock Holmes, Gandalf, JR Ewing, Obi Wan Kenobi (returning both in the flesh in episode 1-3 and as a ghost in episode 6). Death has no permanency in literature.
 

Vhb_Rocketman

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 11, 2018
Messages
58
Reaction score
4
Location
Canada
To me, a MC dying or not dying doesn't turn me off of a book. As long as it makes sense with the story and isn't so blatantly obvious that it's coming. Personally, I don't even mind seemingly random deaths of of characters but, and this is a big but, there has to be a very strong cast of characters to pick up where the dead character left off.

As others have said. Do what you want to do. You'll find out at the end, once you gave your finished work, if it still makes sense.
 

bearilou

DenturePunk writer
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
6,004
Reaction score
1,233
Location
yawping barbarically over the roofs of the world
Since your OP said the protagonist (and not a protagonist), I'm assuming that it is also the major POV character as well (as opposed to a POV character).

While I'm not a fan of the MC dying in any book, and while also cautioning that just because GRRM did it, none of us are GRRM, I think the strength of GRRM's ability to kill off a major POV character in a book was built on the strength of the other characters in the book and the fact that the killed character was not the major POV character of his series.

So, if your book rests solidly on the MC and you kill them off, there may be potential problems of read through for the following books. If you have strong characters in the book that can pick up and carry on, then I don't see the issue except that some readers won't be reading on when they realize that POV character isn't coming back.
 

CameronJohnston

Great Old One
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 7, 2017
Messages
1,201
Reaction score
119
Location
Glasgow, Scotland
Website
www.cameronjohnston.net
Be very careful of killing off your MC. Readers may throw your book at a wall or have no desire to read any book two if they really liked the MC. Especially if you don't have many other PoV characters. Eggs all in one basket etc.

That said, if you do have a group of characters but book 1 has a main MC you then kill off, I can see other books dealing with that death might make for a really interesting development as they deal with it. Essentially, just make sure your readers will be invested in, and interested in following these other characters you have through the series. Give readers enough emotional involvement with other characters to survive the loss of the MC in book 1.
 

Heskett

Registered
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Messages
17
Reaction score
1
Location
Halifax, NS
I agree with a lot of the sentiments above by everyone else.

But if the crux of your series is the death of this main character, my best piece of advice is build up the other characters around this main character to be just as interesting. Otherwise your readers aren't going to care what happens next. These characters have to be intriguing enough to fill the vacuum the main character would leave once they're gone.

And be weary of using this as just a shocking twist to keep the reader's interest. If it's just a twist, then your first novel is nothing more than just a book-long intro to the main story (i.e. the remaining 4 books). You might as well just compress the first book into a few chapters that are an introduction and then jump into the main story of the series right away.

However, if there are plot points (and character development points) other than the death that are necessary to establish BEFORE the death that become relevant and important AFTER the death, then you're fine.

Having said all that, I'm a BIG believer in just writing out the story as I feel it should go and see what sticks later on. After you write the series, you might go back and edit the first book because you realized a good portion of it is just filler.

Not sure if any of that helped but good luck on your writing! :D
 

DarienW

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 28, 2016
Messages
1,497
Reaction score
242
Location
Los Angeles
Can you add POV's later on without them ruining the "feel" the first novel had?

I can answer this part. If you are writing a series, and you kill off the main POV, can you add another POV in the epilogue so that readers know the story will continue?

I had something similar at the end of my book one, not a character dying, but an additional POV added at the end as a teaser to book 2, and also to add more closure to book 1. My betas didn't have any problem with it.

I have added the POV to the whole book at this point, but I can speak to that experience at least.

Like others have said, just write and see what your betas say.

Best of luck with your story!

:)
 

Serddar

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 1, 2017
Messages
81
Reaction score
1
Location
Montenegro
I'll offer reader's advice, not writer's.

Adding a different POV in later books can work if those characters had a role to play in the previous one, if you think they can gather people "in their corner" and gain a following. To answer second part of the question - yes, I think you can kill your protagonist in the first book! :D To me, if something works in your story and in the world you had created, than it works, it's simple as that. If a character reaches that point of no coming back, if his death is a logical conclusion, something you had been building towards, then it's a much better option than keeping him alive for no reason at all, readers notice such things and will feel let down.
 
Last edited:

Aggy B.

Not as sweet as you think
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
11,882
Reaction score
1,557
Location
Just north of the Deep South
I don't think that, if you intend to have a series, killing off the MC of book one will work unless you have a group of strongly established supporting characters as well. It's one thing to ask a reader to pick up a second book when there are already other characters they know and love even if the central character is gone. But asking a reader to start learning a (mostly) new set of characters, follow a completely new hero, etc is much more of a stretch. (I'm a little unsure if that *is* what you're thinking about doing so this is just something you should be considering in regards to how it might apply to your book.)

Should you write the story that you want to write? Yes. Should you do what you feel that particular story demands? Yes. Should you still consider things that might alienate potential agents/editors/readers? Yes.

I'll add that I have killed off (and brought back) two different MCs in two different novella series that were written all/mostly in first person. (So, the POV was that character.) The first was an SF Western, in which the MC is dying at the end of the first novella. Second book starts with her realizing she's been saved from death and things are about to get really shit. And the Southern Gothic trilogy also loses the narrator/MC at the end of the first one but very clearly sets up that 1) the supporting characters don't expect her to stay gone and 2) has an epilogue that indicates she's in a "next/spiritual world" and determined to get back. (The Southern Gothic is narrated by that MC throughout, but she also tells other characters stories in 3rd person part of the time.)

So. If it were me, I would be looking at how to tell the story I want without pissing readers off and making agents/editors take a pass on the material.