Thai boys trapped in cave - rescue attempts?

neandermagnon

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44720785

Has anyone else been following this story? Thai boys aged 11-16 from a local football team plus their coach trapped within a cave system.

I was so happy to hear that the boys have been found alive and well, but it looks like rescuing them is going to be extremely complicated. They've been given food and some healthcare workers have volunteered to go in there with them and look after them while they await rescue but it must be terrifying for them. I hope they can get them all out safely and quickly.
 

talktidy

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I understand there's been talk of training them to scuba dive, but none of the boys can swim. Also, if I understand correctly, the kids will have to swim underwater for long, long stretches of the cave system and in confined areas. Waiting out the monsoon may be the best choice, providing water levels inside their cave do not rise.
 

Bufty

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Nine days in the dark, miles into an underground tunnel, on a narrow shelf of sand only a metre from water that could rise at any time, and with no food, and hopes of rescue fading all the time?

Wow, these kids are tough. Someone amongst them must be an inspiring leader.
 
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Brightdreamer

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I've been reading about this... and it doesn't sound great, TBH.

To swim out, they'd not only have to learn how to swim and scuba dive, but navigate a pitch-dark underwater maze that took two expert divers to get through in the first place.

To stay means waiting about four months, in the dark, minimal hygiene, poor air circulation, risk of more flooding taking them down.

And they're under a mountain, as I understand it, so a Chilean mine rescue strategy of coming down from above doesn't seem feasible.

None of the options seem great, though I think the first one may be ultimately the best of a batch of terrible choices. Getting supplies in and out for four months with probably-rising water levels complicating things doesn't seem like the best choice.

Fingers crossed they find another way in (I hear they're looking)...
 

Lavern08

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This is truly heartbreaking to me - I'm just holding my breath and praying for a positive outcome - *Sigh* :cry:
 

cornflake

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Yeah, waiting there seems like a really bad option. I know they can't swim or dive, but with full-face masks, guide lines, escorts like, between every kid... that just seems like the best option to me, noted cave diving expert (ok, no, but I took a tour of a cave once!)
 

neandermagnon

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Just found this article which has a lot of details about how they're going to try to rescue the boys. They've been pumping the water out and it seems they are trying to get it where the boys can walk most of the way and only have to do short dives between the bits that are walkable. They're trying to organise this before the monsoons, which will flood the cave system, but from what the article is saying, they are high enough up that they're not at risk from flash floods. The biggest risk is that heavy rain will mean they can't be rescued for four months and it will be very hard for divers to get supplies to them.

A diving equipment company are providing child-sized full face scuba masks.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...escuers-race-time-trapped-boys-monsoon-storms
 

talktidy

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Another complication is that the kids were down there without food for days, so they must be weakened. I know the rescuers have brought down emergency rations, but that must have an effect on them. They're so young to be going through this.
 

LittlePinto

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Another complication is that the kids were down there without food for days, so they must be weakened. I know the rescuers have brought down emergency rations, but that must have an effect on them. They're so young to be going through this.

I expect being young works to their advantage. They're athletic and started in pretty good shape, so they have a physical advantage even after days of limited food. Emotionally, young folks can be quite adaptable if the adults around them are calm and confident.
 

RedRajah

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We did a tour of the Cave of the Winds in CO recently and there was a point where the guide had us extinguish our lanterns.

Pitch. Black.

And she calmly mentioned about how easy it was to start hallucinating after ten days without any light.
 

frimble3

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I imagine the darkness is easier to handle in a group, especially a group that you know. "That's not some strange monster scrabbling around. That's Clumsy Tran."
But, yeah, a scary time. The kids are too young to do much about their situation, but old enough to know how bad it could be.

I guess a lot depends on the geology - if it's suitable for caves, maybe it's suitable for tunneling?
I've seen a small graphic on-line that shows a couple of 'thinner' bits, maybe valleys?
If a drilling team got in there, where they wouldn't hit the kids, and dropped a shaft, it might work.
But, depends on the geology - don't want to disturb things and weaken the whole structure.


My heart goes out to them, and the rescue workers, and especially the parents, who can see and hear them, but haven't actually got them yet.
 

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Samarn Kunan, one of the Thai rescue divers, died while placing oxygen tanks in the cave system in preparation for a rescue attempt. This is how incredibly difficult it is.
It's not difficult to imagine how squeezing through several shoulder-wide openings while pushing tanks ahead needs strength, stamina, and nerves of steel. Re-breathers could help extend a dive but they are apparently hard to manage and bigger than standard tanks.

They are courageous kids. Just not trained army-style.

-cb
 

LittlePinto

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I guess a lot depends on the geology - if it's suitable for caves, maybe it's suitable for tunneling?
I've seen a small graphic on-line that shows a couple of 'thinner' bits, maybe valleys?
If a drilling team got in there, where they wouldn't hit the kids, and dropped a shaft, it might work.
But, depends on the geology - don't want to disturb things and weaken the whole structure.

IIRC, they're looking into drilling, but they're a.) worried about collapsing the cave, and b.) struggling to get the equipment where it needs to be. There's also some hope that they might be able to find another tunnel that leads to where the kids are trapped.

About 20m in the direction of the boys, Weerasin said he reached another hole that was obstructed by a boulder. He wedged a borescope through a gap and saw it extended up to another 10m.


He believes the hole leads to the boys because when he lit a fire, smoke flowed quickly through cracks around the boulder, presumably because of the water being pumped from the main cave on the other side.

(Link)

I'm thinking more and more that diving isn't going to work. If they try it, it's truly going to be a "these kids are going to die and we are completely out of options" situation.
 

Alpha Echo

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I have so much anxiety every time I read about these kids. To think of them having no other option but to scuba through the tunnels...I have a deep anxiety of being under water. I lose my breath thinking about these poor children having to be taught how to dive but not having any experience. Once they dive, there's no going back. If one of those kids panics, it's easy to imagine that another would as well. Gosh...those poor kids. The gut-wrenching fear their parents must be feeling! Being able to do nothing but wait and pray and hope.

My heart goes out to the family of the diver who died - what a brave man. He's a hero for sure, risking his life for these kids. Gives me a little hope for humanity.
 

frimble3

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That's another factor: whatever method they try, they're going to have to try with the strongest, healthiest, bravest kid first, even though 'save the little ones' might be the first thought. If something goes wrong on the first trip out, the rest will be even more upset, so you have to take the kid with the best chance of succeeding.
 

cornflake

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I didn't realize this was a SIX-HOUR trip to the entrance until I heard it on the news today. That's how long the experienced cave divers take to get to the kids and back out -- six hours each way. That's bananas. Why were they in there, especially that far (I presume it's less time without the water but still) to begin with? I think I missed that somehow. I get it was some kind of scouting thing but...
 

Tazlima

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Why were they in there, especially that far (I presume it's less time without the water but still) to begin with? I think I missed that somehow. I get it was some kind of scouting thing but...

I wondered the same thing earlier. It's explained toward the end of the original linked article. Apparently they went for a day trip, planning to go maybe a bit deeper in the caves than normal (sounds like they went there regularly) when it started raining and flooding blocked the exits. It doesn't specify how they ended up so very far in, but I'd guess either:

1) they took a shorter, more direct route that the flood waters rendered completely impassible, forcing rescuers to seek another path.

2) if the water kept rising and flooding more and more, they had to continue retreating until they found a place high enough to stay dry.

Or a combination of the two.

Considering they were fleeing a flash flood, they're even luckier than I initially realized. Where I grew up, people are killed by flash floods every year, and that's under the wide open sky (often clear, blue skies. Floodwaters can be generated by storms miles and miles away and sneak up on people who, quite understandably, assumed they were safe from drowning in a bone-dry canyon on a sunny day).

I'm also amazed and impressed that they managed to avoid being separated.
 
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frimble3

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I imagine this is where being a team pays off. They listen to their coach, they're young enough not to argue, and they know to help and support their other teammates. I imagine at first it seemed like a lark, to the kids, at least. Especially if they've done smaller, similar trips before.
 

frimble3

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It just occurred to me that part of the problem isn't just getting fresh air and oxygen in, they're going to have to make some arrangement to get the stale air out, if the water is effectively corking the tunnel.
 

Lavern08

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OK, if a Navy Seal died trying to navigate those caves, what hope is there for these children? *Sigh* :cry:
 

Brightdreamer

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It just occurred to me that part of the problem isn't just getting fresh air and oxygen in, they're going to have to make some arrangement to get the stale air out, if the water is effectively corking the tunnel.

IIRC, they weren't extra worried about air for the time being because it's limestone and porous, possibly with some known cracks letting some air exchange through the roof, though of course if water levels rise and the air pocket they're in gets smaller and there's so many people breathing in a space that's still mostly closed off...
 

LittlePinto

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I'm going to say it.

"Shut up, Elon."

It's one thing to send experts and equipment to assist in a rescue effort. It's another to raise hopes when not even you can pull off what you're suggesting. It smacks of a cheap PR move at the expense of suffering people.
 

cbenoi1

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He could have said "Hey, if money becomes a problem to get access to experts and equipment needed to rescue those kids just send me the bills." instead. Hinting that HIS engineers are smarter than those send by many countries is pretentious at best.

-cb