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Some Advice Please

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PhoenixFlower

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So I used to be a pretty avid writer. I would write at least a thousand words or more a day. With this method, I got through school (Graduated with my Masters in Creative Writing) and went on to finish my book. I was super excited and happy, that I was able to go through two rounds of edits pretty quick. Finally, it was time to share it with a buddy of mine who I trust.

This is where the problems arose. He loved half of my book but loathed the other half. After some discussion and some deep thinking, it was decided that half of the book needed to get destroyed and redone with a new theme. While I love the new ideas and overall theme for the book, I find myself never wanting to write. I feel like all the hard work I've done before is just gone and what if it happens again and again. My head just hurts thinking about it.

So I guess my question, is how do you keep writing after you've had to basically kill a large portion of your book?
 

Sarahrizz

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My first question is, have you had feedback from multiple sources, or just this one friend. Sometimes getting multiple critiques is important, as it gives you multiple perspectives on ways to improve a work. You'd need to have 50 posts here to be able to post in SYW (Share Your Work) or Beta Readers forum, but that's not hard to obtain.

As to experience in rewriting: I recently had just one chapter of my own piece critiqued and got feedback that has given me ideas about improving most of my piece. I'll need to take a hatchet to several chapters and rewrite several more. What's helped me is, First I make a backup save of the previous version, just in case. Then I Created two documents: An outline of what I have and what I want the story to look like, and a list of character descriptions for all my main characters (Physical, Psychological or personality) and Backstory). This helps me to stay organized. Rewriting is definitely easier if you know what your goal is, and have a plan.
 

ValerieJane

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I agree with Sarahizz about getting opinions from multiple sources. It might help to get some fresh eyes on the situation.

It might sound cheesy, but I try not to think of any steps I'm taking in the writing process as steps backward. They're really not steps backward; they're going in a different route. I know it can be discouraging, but try not to be hard on yourself. You don't have to get it perfectly right the first time, and you probably won't because nobody ever does. Like I said before, try not to think of it as going backwards. You figured out how the story would play out if you wrote the second half that way. Now you're just trying out a different second half. And if that one doesn't work out, you can try another second half. And maybe another. And then you'll have all these great ideas of where the story COULD go, and you'll have lots of material to choose from for what is the best path. The best advice I ever got was "Write more to cut more." When you have more material than you need, it can really alleviate some of the stress of getting it right because you have a lot of good content you could use.

Also, don't delete your work but just move it to a graveyard doc. You might have gotten some ideas right the first time.
 

paddismac

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Absolutely get feedback from multiple sources.

Negative feedback from one person is a difference of opinion. Negative feedback (on the same issues) from 2 or more becomes consensus. That's when you look closer to see what you can do to turn the negatives around.

Best of luck with your project!
 

PhoenixFlower

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My first question is, have you had feedback from multiple sources, or just this one friend.

For now just the one friend. However, as the writer, I agree with what he was saying and saw more opportunity in changing the section of the book.

Negative feedback from one person is a difference of opinion. Negative feedback (on the same issues) from 2 or more becomes consensus. That's when you look closer to see what you can do to turn the negatives around

This is very true.

It might sound cheesy, but I try not to think of any steps I'm taking in the writing process as steps backward.

I try not to as well, but it is very hard sometimes. I just find myself being frustrated and annoyed with essentially having to change so much even though I know it will be for the better in the long run. I think right now I just need a new pair of eyes on it and perhaps a writing buddy/mentor to help guide and encourage me, as I feel my naturally low self-esteem is not helping with matters.
 

ValerieJane

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I try not to as well, but it is very hard sometimes. I just find myself being frustrated and annoyed with essentially having to change so much even though I know it will be for the better in the long run. I think right now I just need a new pair of eyes on it and perhaps a writing buddy/mentor to help guide and encourage me, as I feel my naturally low self-esteem is not helping with matters.

It sounds like you might benefit from some space from your manuscript. Maybe take some time away from this particular idea so you can sort of recharge and stop spinning your wheels on this project that needs a big overhaul. That's what helps me. You might find a renewed sense of excitement when you return to it after a time.
 

Scythian

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Multiple sources of feedback from different demographics, if possible.
Because if you're on the verge of composing a damn good soft rock ballad and you ask for advice how to make it work, but everyone around you listens to hardcore punk or techno, you can ask 1 person or 20, they'll still all say your composition needs to be faster and harder. And they'll be wrong, because they'll be listening to it through the wrong mental software:D

Sometimes you yourself will be wrong too. You start trying to write A, but it comes out B, and you try to force this B to become A, and that's really counterproductive.
If instead of A it comes out B, the thing is to take a step back, look at this B on its own terms , as in not forcing it to become A, and see how to make it a really terrific B. Which is not the same thing as making it a terrific A. In other words, if one is trying to write a Jack Reacher variation, but it keeps coming out like Repairman Jack, then after a while it's time to stop trying to force it to be a defective Jack Reacher and instead make it as good a Repairman Jack as it can be.

For this to happen the text should be seen with fresh eyes, and how that happens is up to the writer. Could be in a different format (say PDF), or after reading other books for a month, or with a couple of beers inside, or really early in the morning, or really late at night, or some combination.

And when you aks people to check out your writing, do insist they tell you who your writing reminds them of. That way you'll gradually collect a number of 'literary allies' whom you can learn from, and also may help seeing your own stuff through a new filter. Just don't give in to the temptation to copy someone too much.

Finally, to second what other said: never really delete chunks forever. Always paste into a reserve document.
 
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cornflake

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So I used to be a pretty avid writer. I would write at least a thousand words or more a day. With this method, I got through school (Graduated with my Masters in Creative Writing) and went on to finish my book. I was super excited and happy, that I was able to go through two rounds of edits pretty quick. Finally, it was time to share it with a buddy of mine who I trust.

This is where the problems arose. He loved half of my book but loathed the other half. After some discussion and some deep thinking, it was decided that half of the book needed to get destroyed and redone with a new theme. While I love the new ideas and overall theme for the book, I find myself never wanting to write. I feel like all the hard work I've done before is just gone and what if it happens again and again. My head just hurts thinking about it.

So I guess my question, is how do you keep writing after you've had to basically kill a large portion of your book?

It will happen again and again. Is this the first book you've written? Are you writing another? It'll happen with that too, likely.

You have a degree in creative writing -- have you not scrapped and redone stuff ad nauseam?

You might, if you're thinking about trade deals, find an agent who wants major revisions, you do them, and then the agent passes. You might get an agent who wants to work with you -- but wants huge revisions. Then an editor at a house might... want huge revisions. Or an agent might say, 'that thing you're working on now sounds good, except change all this around and add this subplot and...'

Such is life. Ever try pottery? You can spend hours on the wheel making a vase only to find your clay wasn't properly centered, or you might put a thumb through it and oh well. You might make a perfect piece takes hours, wait for it to dry, spend hours trimming it, wait for it to dry, paint it by hand, glaze it carefully, put it in the kiln and have it explode or get taken out by an exploding piece next to it. There goes weeks of work.
 

MaeZe

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... He loved half of my book but loathed the other half. After some discussion and some deep thinking, it was decided that half of the book needed to get destroyed and redone with a new theme. While I love the new ideas and overall theme for the book, I find myself never wanting to write. I feel like all the hard work I've done before is just gone and what if it happens again and again. My head just hurts thinking about it.

So I guess my question, is how do you keep writing after you've had to basically kill a large portion of your book?
Did you save a copy of the original? The following is my personal opinion, take it with a grain of salt.

When I read (and give) critique there are a couple things I look for (and try not to do). One big, usually unhelpful thing is suggesting a writer change the story to the story the critic would write. There are a lot of people who should be writing fan-fiction but they might not be that good at critique.

If I'm going to suggest a change to a writer then I need to explain why that change is needed. And the reason can't be, 'I'd write a different story'.

You have a master's in creative writing. You must have some idea what the story was you wanted to write.

Find a beta reader (assuming you don't need to get chapter by chapter critique) or two or three and get feedback on the story you wanted to write in the first place.

"Change half the story"? That's not feedback, that's an attempt at fan-fiction.

If you aren't feeling it, go back to the original story and get more opinions.
 

PhoenixFlower

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It sounds like you might benefit from some space from your manuscript.
That actually might be a really good idea. I've been having ideas of going back and working on a fanfiction I've wanted to do. Maybe I should try my hand at that before trying my hand at this. That way I can also slowly work towards getting a writing buddy and maybe a beta once I've been more active in the community and get some feedback that way.

You have a degree in creative writing -- have you not scrapped and redone stuff ad nauseam?
I have but not to the extreme of like 50,000 words. There is a big difference between scrapping out like 5-10,000 words in a story or short story, compared to scrapping half a novel.

Yet I know what you are saying and I appreciate the comparison. Sometimes we spend a long time on something only for it to not come out right. Thus the only thing then is to redo it. I just guess right now I can't find the energy. Which means taking a break and working on another story is not a bad idea.

Did you save a copy of the original? The following is my personal opinion, take it with a grain of salt.
Yes, I always make copies when making any significant change. My writing buddy also told me to.

You have a master's in creative writing. You must have some idea what the story was you wanted to write.
I did. I wanted a story about the discovery of magic. But by doing so I think I fell into the mystery and drama all felt staged instead of real. Like it was this way because the plot needed it to be.
 

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It's all about your inner voice. There are two ways to deal with this: feel guilt and frustration out of all the work you had thrown to the bin, project such feelings on the ms itself, hating to work on it as one hates patching a leak one knows won't stay patched, or shortly mourn for the lost words and accept this new avenue of your ms as the fresh adventure it will be, as the growing experience it's meant to be, and make your journey of writing redemption true.
What's your inner voice saying to you? Hate the ms, forget about it and start a new one? Or does it say: love what you've done well and make it better?
 

lizmonster

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Sometimes we spend a long time on something only for it to not come out right. Thus the only thing then is to redo it. I just guess right now I can't find the energy. Which means taking a break and working on another story is not a bad idea.

I wonder if it would be at all helpful to reframe your thinking a little.

Sometimes you have to get the wrong words out in order to get to the right ones. IOW, you're not so much "redoing" the MS as finally getting to the right version of it. It's like clearing the weeds before you can plant. (Have I flogged enough metaphors yet? :D)

That said, I agree with the others: a single naysayer isn't, in and of itself, a good reason to do a complete rewrite. I've had a variety of crit partners, and I've found I agree with about 80% of what they say. Sometimes in the 20% I choose to ignore are comments like "You can't do this with the plot." I think a lot about their perspective--especially since I trust my crit partners--but sometimes I ultimately decide they're wrong.

And yeah, I'm taking a risk that I'm the one who's wrong and I'm going completely off the rails. :) But it's my name on the MS, and I have to do what I think is best for it.

Good luck to you whatever you choose--none of this is easy, no matter how many times you go through it.
 

PhoenixFlower

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I wonder if it would be at all helpful to reframe your thinking a little.

Sometimes you have to get the wrong words out in order to get to the right ones. IOW, you're not so much "redoing" the MS as finally getting to the right version of it. It's like clearing the weeds before you can plant. (Have I flogged enough metaphors yet? :D)

That said, I agree with the others: a single naysayer isn't, in and of itself, a good reason to do a complete rewrite. I've had a variety of crit partners, and I've found I agree with about 80% of what they say. Sometimes in the 20% I choose to ignore are comments like "You can't do this with the plot." I think a lot about their perspective--especially since I trust my crit partners--but sometimes I ultimately decide they're wrong.

And yeah, I'm taking a risk that I'm the one who's wrong and I'm going completely off the rails. :) But it's my name on the MS, and I have to do what I think is best for it.

Good luck to you whatever you choose--none of this is easy, no matter how many times you go through it.

Thanks for the helpful suggestion. I just got a writing buddy and I hope together we can motivate each other to do great things. He is also taking a look at the old version so we shall see if he recommends the same thing or not! I am a bit excited to see what he says.
 

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Sweet! That'll help a lot.
Did the first guy say WHY they didn't like the story? Was it because of technical reasons? Plot reasons? Doesn't-like-the-genre reasons? Sometimes when people don't like something it has nothing to do with the quality of the work and more about their tastes.
Whatever you do, don't give up on it. You finished a freakin' novel! That's amazing!
 
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