Flowery writing and rapid typing? I've been thinking...

It's not unusual to overwrite in the initial draft(s). I don't know that I would use the term "flowery" to describe that, though. Unless your particular brand of overwriting takes that form?

I like overwritten and sloppy flowery stuff, especially by post-Lovecraftians, where this approach can work quite well. Also in some sprawling sci-fi sagas.

Overwriting isn't necessarily "flowery," which usually implies excessive description or descriptive words, prose that's intended to be beautiful. Overwritten prose can also be repetitive information, too much stage direction, too many glue words, etc. I'm not sure if excess words is related to typing speed, but it's fairly common in a draft to put down more than you need, to get the whole idea or image out, which then gets pared down and clarified during edits. Some writers do the opposite and write very lean drafts that then need additions during editing.

BethS said:

It's not unusual to overwrite in the initial draft(s). I don't know that I would use the term "flowery" to describe that, though. Unless your particular brand of overwriting takes that form?

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This. Don't overworry about overwriting in a rough draft. It is why God invented editing. I similarly do this, and I do a lot of rough drafting with pen and paper (even though I am also a good typist). IMO it's better to overwrite in a rough draft than it is to underwrite because you are obsessing about avoiding extraneous words or phrases. The latter can constipate your writing, methinks.

caw

Don't worry about how good your writing is when you're writing it. You are allowed to revise. What's important in the producing stage of writing is getting words on the page.

+1 to Sparverius' comment. Other htan that, you're clearly smacking those drafts into order either way so it's all good in the end.


Blacbird - but you would say that if you're an overwriter ;-) I think it's better to underwrite in a draft, probably because I'm an underwriter. Our biases incline us that way I suspect.

I definitely don't go out of my way to cut extraneous material, though. It's not a conscious effort. I simply default to barebones in rough drafts, without intending to. My mss always seem to need help to put on weight afterwards. (Not that you'd know it from my overly wordy posts, I guess.)

Off-topic but please tell me your secret to fast writing, I'm a chronically slow writer (150 words/hour) and thus I keep fearing that i'm underwriting my prose.

What are those 150 words like, Noir? Are they carefully revised by the end of the hour, and near-on perfect, or do they still need work? Because it might be you're combining several stages of writing--planning, producing and refining the work all at once--in which you could be doing really well.

If you're only producing that number, and you've not planned or revised the work, then you might well be able to be more productive. Consider how involved in the writing you are as you're doing it: if time flies, you don't think of anything else, and it's all wonderful then you're doing well but if you're frequently distracted, worried that your work isn't good enough, and constantly crossing stuff out and looking for better words then you're allowing your internal editor to close down your creative mind. You can work on that, and improve things, if you want.

Old Hack said:

What are those 150 words like, Noir? Are they carefully revised by the end of the hour, and near-on perfect, or do they still need work? Because it might be you're combining several stages of writing--planning, producing and refining the work all at once--in which you could be doing really well.

If you're only producing that number, and you've not planned or revised the work, then you might well be able to be more productive. Consider how involved in the writing you are as you're doing it: if time flies, you don't think of anything else, and it's all wonderful then you're doing well but if you're frequently distracted, worried that your work isn't good enough, and constantly crossing stuff out and looking for better words then you're allowing your internal editor to close down your creative mind. You can work on that, and improve things, if you want.

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It's more like i'd write 100 words, realize that they have too many -ings, brainstorm how to replace some of them, and then realize that i'm still way below my word target of 1000/chapter (since apparently publishers won't accept something below 60k as a novel?)

As a relative newbie to authoring I often stumble over the vernacular used here, so please excuse my ignorance. Are you talking about excessively descriptive prose? If so, then I'm somewhat guilty of the same thing - but perhaps worse, it's deliberate on my part.

We all have our unique voice as writers, which is necessary unless we all want all our stories to sound alike. Maybe descriptive prose is Richard's voice? Of course following Aristotle's guidance, all things in moderation, is always a good idea. For my part, I like to start each chapter (and sometimes scenes when the location changes) with a somewhat visceral description of where the MC finds himself; it's a visual and a way to set the mood for what follows. Maybe - probably even, I'm using bad form in my writing but it's my voice and my readers will either like it or they won't.

An example of my 'flowery' writing follows:
Freshly bandaged and wearing clean clothes, Liam stood out on the balcony with Lisa and Rose. Night had fallen. Sirens wailed throughout the city, while out on the streets people rushed madly about either seeking shelter or running to defend the city wall. The clatter and hammering of railguns had started up again, and the air seemed to vibrate with the concussive sound. Rockets sailed like comets over the city’s defenses, exploding on impact and setting countless fires among the old tenement neighborhoods; heated ashen embers fluttered down from the sky like snow.

NoirSuede said:

It's more like i'd write 100 words, realize that they have too many -ings, brainstorm how to replace some of them, and then realize that i'm still way below my word target of 1000/chapter (since apparently publishers won't accept something below 60k as a novel?)

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It sounds to me like you're allowing your editorial side to interrupt your creative side, and stop you writing.

Try not to worry about having too many of anything, or about your word-count. Just let your words flow. Every time you find yourself thinking, "That's the wrong word," or, "I need to write more," or anything else, write or type a great big X and then just carry on. Focus on getting words down. Give yourself permission to write the wrong words if the wrong words are what present themselves, and to include as many -ings as you want. Just focus on keeping your pen moving, or your fingers typing. Get those words down. You can revise them later.

Sparverius said:

Overwriting isn't necessarily "flowery," which usually implies excessive description or descriptive words, prose that's intended to be beautiful. Overwritten prose can also be repetitive information, too much stage direction, too many glue words, etc. I'm not sure if excess words is related to typing speed, but it's fairly common in a draft to put down more than you need, to get the whole idea or image out, which then gets pared down and clarified during edits. Some writers do the opposite and write very lean drafts that then need additions during editing.

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Or both - Writing the image in mind (too many words, perhaps all visual) and realizing later you did not add any of the other senses or emotions and need to pare the first and augment the second. In my limited experience the drafts are like an accordion.

@Sparverious: What are glue words?

Glue words or sticky words are little connector words that help a sentence stay together, but sometimes there can be too many (and the sentence becomes a mouthful as well as being unnecessarily wordy).

indianroads said:

An example of my 'flowery' writing follows:
Freshly bandaged and wearing clean clothes, Liam stood out on the balcony with Lisa and Rose. Night had fallen. Sirens wailed throughout the city, while out on the streets people rushed madly about either seeking shelter or running to defend the city wall. The clatter and hammering of railguns had started up again, and the air seemed to vibrate with the concussive sound. Rockets sailed like comets over the city’s defenses, exploding on impact and setting countless fires among the old tenement neighborhoods; heated ashen embers fluttered down from the sky like snow.

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I see nothing wrong with that. It goes a long way toward putting the reader in the scene.

And just speaking for myself, I wouldn't call that "flowery" either.

BethS said:

I see nothing wrong with that. It goes a long way toward putting the reader in the scene.

And just speaking for myself, I wouldn't call that "flowery" either.

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+1

For me having a rich or evocative prose (and there is nothing wrong with those) is different from a flowery prose.

I type at over 90 words per minute and while I think this definitely contributes to overly wordy forum posts, I don't think it does that in my creative writing. I find it extremely useful that I can type close to thinking speed, as it means I can type as I think of stuff, rather than constantly having to slow my thinking/imagination down while I'm writing. Or at least, not as much as I would if I had to handwrite it. Generally my creative writing is limited by my thinking speed. I don't just type a load of random stuff down while I'm thinking what's going to happen next (I'm a pantser) or what's the best way to phrase something. I also spend a lot of time re-reading and editing the scenes I've recently written to make sure they read right. This is the limiting factor to how fast I can make forward progress with creative writing.

IMO the cure for writing too much on a first draft (plenty of writers do this, however fast they type) is to go back and re-read it and get rid of all the unnecessary words/sentences/paragraphs. I edit as I go so I never have a whole entire draft to do stuff like this to all in one go. I'll write a scene then go back and reread it to check it reads okay, and change or remove the bits that don't read okay.

Fast typing helped to get me my day job though. I did at typing test at the agency and I decided to go slow and aim for accuracy. I got 100% accuracy at 70 words per minute.

Lakey said:

To type speedily, you have to have words to type. When I write fiction, words don’t come speedily.

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Same here. I type fast, but compose slowly.

I think one of the marks of mastery in this field is that the pro can shrink and expand the text depending on the needs of the book. 1K can become 10K and 10K can become 1 K, with every variation working equally well, or almsot equally well.
While the initial draft--for those of us who do initial drafts--should, IMO, be a work of joy. And if the joy is in being verbose--then by all means.

To type speedily, you have to have words to type. When I write fiction, words don’t come speedily.

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It often takes me a bit of time to find my MC. Once I'm there, seeing, hearing, and feeling the things he does the words come easily. Unfortunately these periods of lucid vision are often fleeting, it's like I spin out on the corner of the racetrack and need to find my way back. So I type in spurts, then sit back and stare at the ceiling for a while.

indianroads said:

It often takes me a bit of time to find my MC. Once I'm there, seeing, hearing, and feeling the things he does the words come easily. Unfortunately these periods of lucid vision are often fleeting, it's like I spin out on the corner of the racetrack and need to find my way back. So I type in spurts, then sit back and stare at the ceiling for a while.

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That sounds familiar...