When you know it's coming

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Jeneral

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It's hard (for me at least) to find Romance that doesn't make me want to pull my hair out. My boss has said for years that seems to be an audience that will tolerate damn near "any old crap" for da kisses with da sexy man and da sexors.

A little less slamming on the romance genre, please. Some of us write it and work very hard at it.
 

ChibiUsagi

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A little less slamming on the romance genre, please. Some of us write it and work very hard at it.

Again, I have never said it's not a respectable genre--but in the publishing industry at large it has a lot of detractors, one of whom just happens to be my boss. This has admittedly discouraged me from seeking it out a lot, lest she look at me as "less" reliable as her EA.

Same with a lot of genres that appeal to women more than men. It's not fair, or kind, but it's reality.

Obviously, there's well written romance. No disrespect intended.
 
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ChibiUsagi

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I'm going to offer some more advice. The first part is infinitely more useful than the second.

Part the First

Toothpaste's post in Conquering Challenges -- print it out and Sellotape a copy to the wall above your desk, Sellotape one to your desk, and Sellotape a third to your computer monitor so you have to lift it out of the way before you can start work. It's that good. It's that important.

Part the Second

Random thoughts:

1. What does success mean to you? Try defining it -- but only in terms of what you can control. To be published doesn't count, because it's not in your control.

2. Always move forward. I'd stick a shark analogy here, but a lot of sharks don't have to move forward to survive, because buccal pumping is a thing. But, generally, be a whaler shark, not a wobbegong. Not that there's anything wrong with wobbegongs. And whalers are fearsome predators. You know what, I'm abandoning this right now.

Ok but this made me laugh out loud so...can I keep the second part of advice too? ;)
 

Jeneral

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I'm simply reacting to what you posted, where you quoted your boss in a way that certainly implied you agree (with a condescending tone: "da sexy man and da sexors"). Those of us who write romance get disparaged enough without getting more of it here. Thanks.
 

ChibiUsagi

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I'm simply reacting to what you posted, where you quoted your boss in a way that certainly implied you agree (with a condescending tone: "da sexy man and da sexors"). Those of us who write romance get disparaged enough without getting more of it here. Thanks.

I was literally just quoting her, as I stated, so the condescending tone was all hers. It does not reflect my personal opinion. Romance gets a bad reputation, and I’ve read a lot of bad romance, but that of course isn’t reflective of an entire genre or the people who wrote it.

There are genres where the perception amongst publishing professionals is that having a built in audience overrides quality, sometimes, but that isn’t exclusive to romance at all.

Again, no offense intended.
 
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Hbooks

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Again, I have never said it's not a respectable genre--but in the publishing industry at large it has a lot of detractors, one of whom just happens to be my boss. This has admittedly discouraged me from seeking it out a lot, lest she look at me as "less" reliable as her EA.

Same with a lot of genres that appeal to women more than men. It's not fair, or kind, but it's reality.

Obviously, there's well written romance. No disrespect intended.

What you said was rude. Following something rude with "no disrespect intended" doesn't erase the rudeness. Trying to push this off as your boss's fault doesn't work for me either. You chose to quote her here to support your argument in a forum where romance writers read and post.
 
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ChibiUsagi

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What you said was rude. Following something rude with "no disrespect intended" doesn't erase the rudeness. Trying to push this off as your boss's fault doesn't work for me either. You chose to quote her here to support your argument in a forum where romance writers read and post.

I wasn't making an argument about romance to begin with. If you want to think that you're welcome to it.

What a fun thread derail this has been, I think that's quite enough now. Everyone has made their points.
 

Hbooks

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The irony here is you started a thread because you are nervous about rejections coming in for your book. Then you have instead used the thread to insult other people's books. Can you try to take a step back, examine your behavior, and see why it is hurting people's feelings? Here are the statements you are making. I'm going to replace the word romance with genre and you're welcome to imagine how it would feel if these things were being levied at whatever you write:

<Genre> gets a bad reputation, and I’ve read a lot of bad <genre>.

In the publishing industry at large <genre> has a lot of detractors. Same with a lot of genres that appeal to women more than men.

There are genres where the perception amongst publishing professionals is that having a built in audience overrides quality, sometimes, but that isn’t exclusive to <genre> at all.

It's hard (for me at least) to find <genre> that doesn't make me want to pull my hair out. My boss has said for years that seems to be an audience that will tolerate damn near "any old crap" for da kisses with da sexy man and da sexors.
 
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ChibiUsagi

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The irony here is you started a thread because you are nervous about rejections coming in for your book. Then you have instead used the thread to insult other people's books. Can you try to take a step back, examine your behavior, and see why it is hurting people's feelings? Here are the statements you are making. I'm going to replace the word romance with genre and you're welcome to imagine how it would feel if these things were being levied at whatever you write:

<Genre> gets a bad reputation, and I’ve read a lot of bad <genre>.

In the publishing industry at large <genre> has a lot of detractors. Same with a lot of genres that appeal to women more than men.

There are genres where the perception amongst publishing professionals is that having a built in audience overrides quality, sometimes, but that isn’t exclusive to <genre> at all.

It's hard (for me at least) to find <genre> that doesn't make me want to pull my hair out. My boss has said for years that seems to be an audience that will tolerate damn near "any old crap" for da kisses with da sexy man and da sexors.

I didn't insult anyone's books. And I don't take criticisms of my genre, or people who don't like my genre, or facts about my genre, or publishing perspectives about my genre, personally. I'm not out to hurt anyone's feelings but for now I'm done discussing this.
 
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AW Admin

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I'm simply reacting to what you posted, where you quoted your boss in a way that certainly implied you agree (with a condescending tone: "da sexy man and da sexors"). Those of us who write romance get disparaged enough without getting more of it here. Thanks.

She was reporting a statement made by another, did not endorse it, and she qualified it.

Drop it.
 

AW Admin

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Again, I have never said it's not a respectable genre--but in the publishing industry at large it has a lot of detractors, one of whom just happens to be my boss. This has admittedly discouraged me from seeking it out a lot, lest she look at me as "less" reliable as her EA.

Same with a lot of genres that appeal to women more than men. It's not fair, or kind, but it's reality.

Obviously, there's well written romance. No disrespect intended.

It is a thing that comes up repeatedly and is therefore a sore spot with romance authors.

The irony is that romance sales drive fiction. Romance publishing statistics are pretty interesting.
 

Old Hack

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1. What does success mean to you? Try defining it -- but only in terms of what you can control. To be published doesn't count, because it's not in your control.

This is such an important question for writers.

I've seen so many tie their success to getting a deal, and hitting the best-seller lists, and those things aren't going to happen for so many of us that it's bound to lead to heartbreak.

If we focus on process, rather than product--so on writing as frequently as we can, on revising the work we produce, on growing as writers rather than on getting others to endorse us--we are going to find more satisfaction in our writing, and feel more secure in our talents.
 

RaggyCat

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This is such an important question for writers.

I've seen so many tie their success to getting a deal, and hitting the best-seller lists, and those things aren't going to happen for so many of us that it's bound to lead to heartbreak.

If we focus on process, rather than product--so on writing as frequently as we can, on revising the work we produce, on growing as writers rather than on getting others to endorse us--we are going to find more satisfaction in our writing, and feel more secure in our talents.

Quoted for truth. I have learned through experience not to define success narrowly. Years back, to me, success meant getting a book published. I was so fixated on that that once it happened and I did get a book published, I was left at something of a loss. I only realised I was silly to define that as success when things took a downwards turn for me, which led to nasty negative thoughts seeing myself as a failiure because I was unable to *keep up* what I saw as success (which I realised was largely out of my control, too). I think a healthier way of viewing success is to have multiple goals, so when one is achieved or not achieved you have more to work on. I am a much better writer than I was when my first book was published. If that had been a goal of mine from the start, I think I might have avoided going through an unpleasant period of bitter feeling where I fell out of love with writing a little.
 

Calla Lily

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I keep moving my goal posts. :)

This is the death of happiness and my worst habit. A lot of writers, a lot of creative types, hell just a lot of people, can relate to this.

Perhaps for some, but not for me. In my case it gives me something new and/or bigger to reach for.

I have several books out, but no audiobooks yet.
I have yet to be nominated for an award.
I have a current contract, but when it's complete I have the book I've been wanting to write for years waiting for me.

These goals help keep me motivated.

Also, fans. Fan mail is the best.
 

ChibiUsagi

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Perhaps for some, but not for me. In my case it gives me something new and/or bigger to reach for.

I have several books out, but no audiobooks yet.
I have yet to be nominated for an award.
I have a current contract, but when it's complete I have the book I've been wanting to write for years waiting for me.

These goals help keep me motivated.

Also, fans. Fan mail is the best.

This is a really good spin to put on it. I have to try this. :)
 

Fuchsia Groan

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Yup. Immediate, doable goals really help me. Outline, draft, revise, workshop a particular book— that I can do. Plan a research trip or vacation — that I can do. It’s hard to let go of the dreams of the kind of success you can’t control; I’m not there yet, but I’m working on it. I want to be grateful for what I did get rather than constantly craving more.

Waiting, eh? I’m having a hard time with it right now. :)
 
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